4,531 people died today from Covid
Meanwhile Chinese hackers try to steal COVID-19 vaccine research https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Smg8Ivdc0ZI
shareDid they? Or did they die of other things but also had Covid-19 so that is what gets said was the cause of death?
shareIt's like people that drink water die so they died of water ingestion.
share150,000 people die daily worldwide. Fun fact.
shareok, let's say that's true.
to some extent, it is true in the sense that people with compromised health are far more likely to die.
but would they have died anyway, at that time?
if you go to the cdc's site, you'll find a section where they track expected deaths - they compare historical trends to what we're seeing this year.
the real world is messy, and the cdc's data looks to be complete only to the w/e april 18th currently.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
if you look at that graph, you'll see the following:
week ending excess deaths
march 28 2862
april 4 13262
april 11 21455
april 18 16501
to the end of april 18th, that gets you a totla of 54080 deaths in the u.s. over what would expected to be seen in a 'normal' year.
to that date - april 18th - there had been 39311 covid deaths reported in the u.s.
which suggests not only are a lot of people dying of covid as reported, but that the numbers may actually be understated, not overstated.
if people aren't dying of covid, then we should all be very afraid, cuz that means there's something else out there killing americans in vast numbers.
and it's not only in the u.s. that this has been observed. several countries have seen death rates above what has been attributed to the virus.
you can find articles on this in the washington post & the financial times.
of course, all of this comes with the stipulation that we all have to be careful in making any wild claims one way or the other.
the real world is messy, and we're going to be sifting through the data on this for a long time. it will be probably a year, or years, before we get solid covid death fatality numbers.
but all the available data suggests that it is really serious, and that it's likely the case that the previous reported death counts are going to rise.
https://www.ft.com/content/6bd88b7d-3386-4543-b2e9-0d5c6fac846c
Global coronavirus death toll could be 60% higher than reported | Free to read
Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across 14 countries analysed by the FT
The death toll from coronavirus may be almost 60 per cent higher than reported in official counts, according to an FT analysis of overall fatalities during the pandemic in 14 countries.
Mortality statistics show 122,000 deaths in excess of normal levels across these locations, considerably higher than the 77,000 official Covid-19 deaths reported for the same places and time periods.
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2020/05/02/excess-deaths-during-covid-19/?arc404=true
Excess U.S. deaths hit estimated 37,100 in pandemic’s early days, far more than previously knownshare
The United States recorded an estimated 37,100 excess deaths as the novel coronavirus spread across the country in March and the first two weeks of April, nearly 13,500 more than are now attributed to covid-19 for that same period, according to an analysis of federal data conducted for The Washington Post by a research team led by the Yale School of Public Health.
The Yale team’s analysis suggests that the number of excess deaths accelerated as the pandemic took hold. There were 16,600 estimated excess deaths just in the week of April 5 to April 11, compared with 20,500 over the prior five weeks.
Though the team’s estimate of the impact early in the outbreak already paints a picture of unusually high mortality, the number is certain to grow as more deaths are reported to the federal government on a rolling basis.
Even Dr Birx has come out and said she can't trust the CDC's figures.
I wonder if, when the goat and rabbit in Tanzania die, their deaths will be attributed to Covid-19 too? For those who don't know what I am talking about, the President of Tanzania sent in several tests (labelled as people) that included a goat, a rabbit, a papaya fruit and some vehicle oil and some came back positive for Covid-19!
Also in the UK, the test kits were contaminated with corona virus, so let's all just think about that for a while.
i think every piece of data should be treated as conditional & up for revision, for sure.
but when we have multiple countries reporting the same thing - excess deaths over and above what has been attributed to the virus to date - then we can say it looks like the deaths from the virus are higher than what has been reported.
there's all sorts of messiness happening, no doubt.
as i said above, it will be a long time before the dust settles on this & we have reliable data.
what we do have right now shows that there are many more people dying than normal in multiple countries, and the areas where that is happening the most are in the areas hardest hit by the virus.
that's backed up in the wapo & ft stories i posted.
i'm all for skepticism. i applaud it.
but skepticism in the face of facts is not something to be praised. that's just being an ostrich.
Wapo as a source of truth? :D
Whose 'facts' are we talking about?
Scepticism about anything is to be encouraged because the real head in the sand is to believe what you are told instead of making your own mind up from as many sources as possible, lest there be a hidden or evil agenda behind what is being pushed/FORCED on you.
facts don't belong to anyone, my friend.
the wapo article is based on a yale study. you can drill down on it and find the data there.
i agree that you need multiple sources & confirmation. this is all provisional.
but it seems to me that you're not applying the standard you've set above to yourself, in that you appear to be rejecting anything that doesn't line up with what you seem to think. based on what you've commented, anyway.
right now, the numbers reported to the end of april 18th on the cdc site are the best info available for the u.s.
they show excess deaths at a rate over and above the covid deaths reported to that time.
that's also seen in multiple countries as seen in the financial times article.
if multiple countries are showing the same thing, we have a pretty firm basis for seeing a very worrying trend.
let's see what the numbers show in the future. hopefully we'll all be here a year or two from now. we'll know better then.
happy posting to you regardless.
WaPo charges money. Journalism should be free.
shareYou are aware that China has been caught paying off Universities (including Yale who hadn't been reporting those payments for a few years, as is required by law) to lie for them and push their agendas? So no, I wouldn't trust any studies coming out of compromised institutions.
Not all countries are reporting the same thing though and some of them are even coming out and calling out this bullshit, including the doctors and nurses, some of which have been laid off because there is no demand for them and police officers who are being fired for saying the fascistic form of enforcement is bang out of order and not what they signed up for.
It boggles the mind as to why so many people appear to want to trust people who have a vested financial interest in this virus AND the vaccine, especially when so much evidence is coming to light that this was all planned years in advance.
i'm not aware of the china thing you mentioned, but i'm willing to take your word on that, at least for the purpose of this discussion.
what you shouldn't do is allow that to dismiss all information from an institution the size of yale due to that. were the same individuals implicated? departments? even if if they were, you still have to actually look at the data & their conclusions, & see if it's supported by the underlaying info & by other sources.
and the fact that the same pattern is seen in other countries suggests that the cdc & yale information is likely revealing a world-wide pattern - that deaths in the hardest hit areas are almost certainly under-stated.
the fact are the facts. corpses are corpses, and the corpse count in belgium, spain, netherlands & france all support the possibility that covid related deaths are under-counted at this time.
bottom line - the facts are messy, and it's going to be a long time before we can plant our markers down on any positions with relative certainty, so it's a good idea for everyone to cool it on any notions you have that this is all bullshit.
as for your comments in that last paragraph - i think you're trying to get at some things that may be interesting to you, but they're not interesting to me. all i'll say is that if you're trusting sources telling you this was planned & dismissing sources from multiple governments confirming the same information regarding death rates, you may be falling prey to your own preferred ways of seeing things. that's the nice way of saying that!
adieu!
Well, I can tell you for a fact that Belgium's figures are basing every death as Covid-19 regardless of how they died, if they tested positive for the infection. Also, deaths in places like old people's homes where they were not even tested, were classed as Covid-19 deaths. I know that because I live here.
My sister in law is a nurse in Ghent and said they have only seen a handful of real Covid-19 cases. Even at the height, the intensive care wards were only at half capacity.
Watch this and come back and tell me this hasn't been planned long in advance because it isn't hearsay but something you can look up and investigate yourself. https://youtu.be/FWet3IkLf9s
i'm off for a jog.
regardless of how deaths are being counted in nursing homes or belgium, what we do know is that the death rate is far above the expected death rate, and appears to be above the covid reported deaths.
from the financial times article i posted above:
According to the FT analysis, overall deaths rose 60 per cent in Belgium, 51 per cent in Spain, 42 per cent in the Netherlands and 34 per cent in France during the pandemic compared with the same period in previous years.
if deaths are 60% above where they are normally for that period, that tells us something serious is going on.
for the record, the wapo just published another article supporting the likelihood that deaths are almost certainly under-counted.
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/fauci-puts-it-bluntly-coronavirus-deaths-are-undercounted/ar-BB13YUfY?ocid=spartandhp
anyway, i'm out for a while. happy posting to you. share
Where are the vaccines for normal flu?
Why are they sure they can 'cure' Covid-19 with a newly created vaccine?
What is the incubation period and has it past for everyone under quarantine and why must we all wait so long after this period?
Why do I need a vaccine when I already had Covid-19 so must have antibodies for it?
Why did some journalists at a recent Trump presser get caught on open mike saying they had already been vaccinated? Why did they remove their masks at a recent one as soon as the presser was over and they didn't realise the camera was still on?
Why did Fauci tell people NOT to wear masks?
Why are some people being prevented from using a drug that has been around since 1945 and has been shown to effectively cure Covid-19 in the majority of cases? Why are some doctors angry they are being prevented from prescribing it?
These are just some of the questions I ask.
Keybored,
The CDC is definitely messing with numbers. Either that or pneumonia and the flu was cured this year!!😜
I also heard about the testing coming back positive for the goat, the rabbit and the fruit. Very telling. Lots of deception going on.
Yes, the numbers for normal seasonal flu dropped while the covid-19 numbers rose. Most people dying of any other thing are being called covid-19 deaths to hype the figures up.
Amen! Did you know that a hospital gets $13,000 from Medicare for each patient reported with COVID-19? And $39,000 for each patient put on a ventilator?
There's a huge difference between dying WITH something as opposed to dying FROM something.
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Yes, MovieMan! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
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I can't see your emojis. They appear as just eight small boxes.
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PS I think the actual number of COVID19 deaths is MUCH lower than the government tells us.
Oh, I just added thumbs up.
I agree. I'm thinking 1/4th of what they say. And I'm probably being generous.
Now China on the other hand....
^this explains why the Governor from almost bankrupt [insert state name here] tells hospitals to mark any death where a person was either tested positive for Covid or even exposed to someone with asymptomatic Covid as officially a Covid death.
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Yep. Follow the money.
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PS So I think the number of actual COVID19 deaths is MUCH lower than the government tells us.
This is why it's important to look at numbers from other countries who don't have the same type of governments or medical systems as well.
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True. I think the actual number of deaths worldwide is MUCH lower than we've been told.
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that is almost certainly complete balderdash.
the death count so far is almost definitely much higher than what's been reported to date.
see the nyt column i posted below & the wapo & financial times articles posted earlier in this thread.
I disagree completely! What YOU have said is complete bullshit! And anyone who would believe anything printed in the dishonest, left biased NYT is obviously a Leftard!
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haha, boy are you reading me completely wrong!
(not that it matters, but i'm a friedman/hayek/sowell - style libertarian with most of the beliefs that description would imply).
my advice to you is to actually look at the facts as they are reported from multiple sources.
as i discussed with someone else already on this thread, if you simply look at the cdc report on excess deaths for the ytd, you'll see a total of 54080 deaths have been recorded that exceed what we would expect the seasonal average to be to the week ending april 18th.
to that date, there had been 39311 deaths attributed to covid.
which suggests - doesn't prove! - that the covid numbers are understated.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
this is supported by the information in the kristoff column, and in the financial times column where the same pattern is seen in other countries.
if your response to seeing the same pattern across multiple regions and multiple sources is to dismiss it as leftard bs, then i'd say your letting your biases lead you astray into some pretty skewed thinking.
https://www.ft.com/content/a26fbf7e-48f8-11ea-aeb3-955839e06441
There are concerns, however, that reported Covid-19 deaths are not capturing the true impact of coronavirus on mortality around the world. The FT has gathered and analysed data on excess mortality — the numbers of deaths over and above the historical average — across the globe, and has found that death tolls in some countries are more than 50 per cent higher than usual. In many countries, these excess deaths exceed reported numbers of Covid-19 deaths by large margins.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries
We cannot compare EuroMOMO’s reports directly to official covid-19 tolls, because the organisation does not publish absolute numbers of deaths for each country. Instead, we have gathered data separately from statistical bureaus around the world (see table below). Some Western nations began releasing regular updates in early April, as we first reported at the time. A few—such as Italy and the Netherlands—show an excess of deaths that is double the official covid-19 tally for the same period.
Bullshit.
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ah.
well-argued.
Thanks. It was all your post deserved.
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https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html
At least 74,000 more people have died during the coronavirus pandemic than the official Covid-19 death counts report, a review of mortality data in 22 countries shows — providing a clearer, if still incomplete, picture of the toll of the crisis.
Over the last two months, far more people have died in most of these countries than in previous years, The New York Times found. The totals include deaths from Covid-19 as well as those from other causes, likely including people who could not be treated as hospitals became overwhelmed.
These numbers undermine the notion that many people who have died from the virus may soon have died anyway. In Britain, which has recorded more Covid-19 deaths than any country except the United States, more than 130,000 people have died since mid-March — 53,300 more people than usual, and 16,700 more than have been captured by official death statistics.
Bullshit and fake news!
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That's right. The medical people are lying to you. They just want to make Trump look bad or something!
I have a condition that makes me more vulnerable to Covid-19. I've been living with it for nearly twenty years. That condition would make me more likely to die if I caught Covid-19, but it would still be the virus that was listed as the cause of death. You'd say I died of my kidney problems if I died, though.
Can we move this conspiracy bullshit to the politics board? Seriously.
Folks with serious and/or underlying conditions often stand on the edge of cliff of death, but it's Covid-19 that pushes them off. So yes, Covid-19 kills them.
shareGiven that the majority of the deaths are not receiving autopsies, claiming it to be a Covid-19 death is just wrong, no?
If you actually fell off a real cliff, would it be fair to call the cause of death Covid-19?
Yes, some medical people are lying to you. Take this expert for instance - https://youtu.be/oLNBw7XCM4Q Got a comment about this? (youtube keep removing this video because it doesn't fit the official narrative btw).
It's not a conspiracy when it is true.
Just the point I was going to make. Most people on the Covid list die of pneumonia, old age, and invasive hospital procedures---especially being put on ventilators. In any case most people probably don't even know the MEs are only taking wild guesses at cause of death. Usually they don't even test and NEVER do autopsies since they are both costly, time consuming, and risky of contamination. Just made me think of something indirectly related: remember in the movie Concussion, when the doctor had to pay out of his own pocket for very expensive tests to determine the cause of death (in that case it was CTE). Unfortunately hospitals play a numbers game, not a quality game. Get 'em in and get 'em cremated. It's time for a new system using holistic natural methods instead of the current costly invasive, and ineffective ones.
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