Interesting article about the expression "to call a spade... - General Discussion Discussion

[–] keybored (2661) 8 years ago

I had always assumed it meant the garden implement, which some people mistakenly called a shovel, and that the expression came from pointing out that it wasn't ie calling a spade a spade (and not a shovel).

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

I see what you mean, but then should a suit in the deck of cards also be renamed?

Btw, I'm glad I read this article cause now I see that the original phrase comes from a mistranslation (or mis-phrasing). The accent should've been put into two words that have a different meaning but are very similar. (skaphis-skaphos) Instead, the translator translated them literally.

The same phrase exists in my language, but we translated it correctly. Two words that differ in only one letter.

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

"But no I don't think the suit of cards should be renamed to satisfy some agenda of the political correctness brigade.Do you?"

No, of course not, I am not crazy about PC either. But neither is Wilson, he just used that phrase as a weapon in one of his debates, and it went too far.

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

Very interesting read. I thought its origins were innocent.

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

Lol, very good points!

My aunt actually recently moved to Scotland after marrying a Scotsman and she's slowly picking up on the lingo, so to speak. Sometimes a Scottish word such as "knackered" or "wee" will slip in when she's talking. 😂💂🏻🇬🇧

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

It's alright; I understand. You could have replied to the original post if you wanted to, though, but no problem replying to me.

At first, I thought CactusPants /might/ be a decent poster, but you're right; the more I read from them, the more I doubt their intentions are good.

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Then put me on ignore too, it's a free country. I certainly would leave you all alone on here.
I wish we could know who put us on ignore..I was answering Dazed threads because I had no idea he hated me.

On imdb we knew when people put us on ignore, but on here it's like being ghosted because nobody knows. I hope Jim fixes that. So I don't waste my time responding or "unknowingly" harassing someone.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

That's actually a good point about the ignore button... Jim did mention that it was rough and he still had to work out the kinks.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

You're so right, Dazed. It's obvious she didn't bother to read your OP, and makes herself look more foolish with virtually every post on this thread.

Yep, she apparently doesn't know how all of this started, and clearly doesn't care, either. I'm tired of all these false accusations of racism, when there was none to begin with.

First time I interacted with her, a few days ago, she became increasingly unreasonable, eventually accusing me of lying (and yet, bizarrely, it was she who'd accused me), editing my posts to change content, and saying swearing should be banned or whatever. On the latter, I figured she'd simply confused me with another poster, and on the other two, perhaps she was tired, or had a few too many drinks that night, or whatever, but in this thread it's clear this is her real behavior.

Earlier today a new poster posted that she's a troll from IMDB and I think another site. Frankly, it did cross my mind that she's trolling, but at this point all I can say for certain is she's combative, unreasonable, and as soon as Jim gets around to fixing the problem with the ignore feature and posts other than those of the people we put on ignore being hidden, she'll go on my list too. So far, only two posters hold that (dubious) honor.

I'm happy to see that common sense is still reigning too.

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Which useless troll was it that tried to make the expression about race?

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Wilson, and soon after his buddy Ben.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

Are you Catbookss?

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

I'm more than happy to facilitate on this occasion.

Once Catbookss had been informed that the term could be perceived as racist they continued to use it without acknowledging that it could be used as an insult.

This makes it a knowingly used derogatory term.

I'm more than accepting of that it could have been used innocently the first time, the second and third though - that's just plain casual racism and requires punishment by their own logic of how the boards should be operating.

Were I a comical man I would suggest flagellation, but since I'm not I think they should be banned.

Are you happy to support casual racism here Dazed?

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

Then we are different.

I cannot stand shoulder to shoulder with someone who think casual racism is a thing which should be overlooked.

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

I'm not Harry, as much as it indulges my kinks that I were. If you wish to be be categorized as a racist then so be it. I don't see why you would care to be labelled otherwise but you are in command of your destiny and who am I to remove such authority from you?

I don't tolerate racists.

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

I wish you've seen a first season of series Hand of God, cause I'd like your opinion on use of N word in one of the episodes there.

It was made so well, that even though a guy keeps repeating the N word, it doesn't seem racist at all. I think this is the only use of that word I've ever seen on TV that looks like it wasn't racist. I'd like to know what others think of it.

Basically, a white guy and a black guy are best friends, and then a white guy offends a jewish guy. Black guy starts defending his best buddy, but then a jewish guy gives him "some of his own medicine". It all turns out non-racist at all, at least for me it didn't seem racist.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

Is it a show worth watching?

I'm sure that scene is important to you but is there whole show worth my attention?

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

I recommend it, but don't put me on ignore if you end up not liking it hehe.

It is described as "neo noir thriller". It's a bizarre show, occasionally brutally honest. That scene isn't "important to me" but maybe fits well into this conversation on where is the line that shouldn't be crossed.

It's not only one scene, it goes on and on in several scenes during a period of time, as a jewish guy waits to see how far is a black guy willing to go to get what he wants.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

So who ends up top of the victim chain?

The black guy or the Jewish guy?

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

None of them is a victim, they all get what they wanted.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

So an exploratory discussion into perceived victimhood? Sounds very adult to me.

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

Yeah it is, kinda. They are all middle aged businessmen. The black guy is a City Mayor.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

All good then.

Unlike the racism you get around here.

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

It's Mayor's son who first starts freaking out (after this has been going on for a while). He starts looking at his dad like "are you really willing to sell your soul to get what you want"? It's an interesting situation.

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

The next generation are a little tightly wound.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Was the saying said to a black person on here?
Because it freaking means 'the nword', you can choose to be insensitive or ignorant to justify your racism.
btw "black face" is also offensive to many too because you seem like the type that would rock black face to a Halloween party and be like "whaaa, why is everyone mad?"

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[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 8 years ago

How would you even know what someone's skin colour is on here? Unless they specify it. This is an international board and sometimes you'll get misunderstandings. And that's without facturing in all the posters who are not native English speakers.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Well, it can be a form of passive aggressive behavior.
Spade is a racial slur and to say otherwise is ignorant.

Would you call a black person in real life a spade?

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[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 8 years ago

In the foreseeable future I wouldn't really have the need to use any word in English to refer to a person in real life. And especially not a specific American English racial slur, which I didn't even know it was untill a few days ago. And there is this whole thing of looking at the context in which a word is used, especially when it has multiple meanings.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Well, one should educate themselves.
A lot of people do not know "black face" is offensive.
Julianne Hough for example...wore blackface to a Halloween party.

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[–] Tim (5) 8 years ago

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[–] Tim (5) 8 years ago

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[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 8 years ago

Well, I'd leave that one for the Americans to worry over.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

No one CALLED anyone a spade.

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[–] smns65 (38) 8 years ago

When a person says they call a spade a spade, they're refering to the situation or the person's character, not the person's skin color.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

You guys can run around town saying it, that's your choice. I just pointed out that saying "spade" is indeed racist.

The old saying is "Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a n*ggard a n*ggard"
Would you say n*ggard at work? even though it has other meanings? It sounds questionable yes?
I feel awful even typing it out. It sounds too much like the nword and I don't like saying it.

But spade is 100% a racial slur and I wouldn't use it.
Just like I wouldn't use F*g to ask for a cigg in America.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

The OP provided an article explaining how it didn't start as a racial phrase. Perhaps it could have been twisted to be one, but that's not the point.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

The term Bytch means female dogs...most words start off meaning other things.
P*ssy means cats or a vagina.

I don't care who says what.
I was just correcting the people that refuse to acknowledge the racist undertones of the word.

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[–] smns65 (38) 8 years ago

It doesn't matter what someone says nowadays. Someone else will find some reason to be offended by it.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

I garden,,I've never once said "where's my gardening spade" I don't even know what a spade tool looks like. Maybe you spade users can tell me since you're experts.
But I know spade means the nword.

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[–] keybored (2661) 8 years ago

If you don't know what a spade is or what it is used for in a garden then you are not a very good gardener or have a very strange view of what gardening means. It is one of the first basic tools you need for a garden and is not to be confused with a shovel.

Here is an url you can check out to see the difference between a spade and a shovel so that you won't ever have to feel bad or embarrassed about using the word 'spade' in it's correct context again.

http://gardeningproductsreview.com/shovel-vs-spade-whats-difference/

And should anyone call you racist for using the word, you can tell them to educate themselves as to what the proper usage if the word is.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

I realize that, but I'm tired of people screaming "RACIST!" whenever someone uses the term "spade" on here. It's a shovel, people.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

In America, we say shovel.

"where's my hoe and where's my shovel, I've got some gardening to do"

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

Dude, I live in America and I know what a spade as a tool is... It's pretty much a sharp, flat shovel. Look it up.

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Exactly

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[–] keybored (2661) 8 years ago

A spade is longer and flat at the end and is used for digging.

A shovel is shorter, wider, curved at the bottom and is used for shoveling things up.

You cannot shovel easily with a spade because it is too thin to hold much and though you 'could' use a shovel to dig with, it will not be as effective as the much longer spade for turning soil over.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Leia, the phrase (or idiom) "calling a spade a spade" never was and still isn't racial.

The word "spade," as the article Dazed quoted in the OP, can be, but isn't always. Referring to the gardening implement or one of the four suits of cards, it's not. Using it to refer to a black person, it unequivocally is.

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[–] LeiaOfLothlorien (1980) 8 years ago

Oh, oops.

Either way, I've really had enough of this argument.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Niggard is a legit word, and has nothing whatsoever to do with race; it's no slur at all, and has nothing to do with the word n!ggER, which clearly is a racist slur.

"But spade is 100% a racial slur"

It isn't. It also refers to a gardening tool, and one of the four suites of cards. If anyone CALLED a black person a spade, that's something entirely different, and would be a racial slur.

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[–] Nipsey_Russell (1339) 8 years ago

Gay was another word that started off different

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

It did, but that's a somewhat different case. Actually, I'm not sure how or when, or why, it first began to mean homosexual. I should look that up.

Homosexual people often, even usually, refer to themselves as gay. Although it's true there are homophobes who use it as a slur.

No one uses it to mean "happy" anymore.

Meanwhile, garden spades still exist, as does the suit of playing cards.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Someone got fired for saying N*ggardly at work.

Spade means the nword but nobody's stopping you from saying it.
Go about your business.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Then the person who fired that person was an idiot who didn't know what the word meant. Sounds like you don't either, or you'd know this. I don't use it personally because it *sounds* too close to n1gger.

Spade also means a gardening tool, and a suite of cards. What word would you propose people use when referencing that specific tool or suite of cards?

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

You wont say words that sound like the nword but you'll says words that mean the nword.
Nice concept.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

By all means, don't deal in facts. As you told another poster, educate yourself. Look up the definition of niggard and niggardly. Find out that there's a difference between a shovel and a spade. And lobby to change the spade suite of cards to another name.

I'm done with you. Too much drama and nonsensical posts.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

goooo away then.
you keep following me around and responding to me.

tata bytch.

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Got proof of that person getting fired for calling someone cheap? I call BS

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

um google it.
I hate when people ask me for proof on common wellknown news stories.

Do you watch the news?

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Yes. You're referring to this situation, where the employer admitted he was wrong and rehired the person?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

And that the then-chairman of the NAACP had this to say about it:

Julian Bond, then chairman of the NAACP, deplored the offense that had been taken at Howard's use of the word. "You hate to think you have to censor your language to meet other people's lack of understanding", he said. "David Howard should not have quit. Mayor Williams should bring him back—and order dictionaries issued to all staff who need them."

Bond also said, "Seems to me the mayor has been niggardly in his judgment on the issue" and that as a nation the US has a "hair-trigger sensibility" on race that can be tripped by both real and false grievances.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Keep googling.

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Kept googling. Not a racist word, no matter how much you want it to be.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

I never said it was.

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[–] napsdufroid (2077) 8 years ago

Yeah, you actually did

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

I did not.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Just in case she tries to edit it to weasel out of what she actually said:

"[–] CactusPants (192) an hour ago
You guys can run around town saying it, that's your choice. I just pointed out that saying "spade" is indeed racist.

The old saying is "Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a n*ggard a n*ggard"
Would you say n*ggard at work? even though it has other meanings?"

It has NO OTHER MEANINGS. It has nothing whatsoever to do with racism.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

You took me out of context, and stop talking to and about me. you just said you are "done with me". leave me alone.

Here's my full quote:
You guys can run around town saying it, that's your choice. I just pointed out that saying "spade" is indeed racist.

The old saying is "Gods people shall not spare to call a spade a spade, a n*ggard a n*ggard"
Would you say n*ggard at work? even though it has other meanings? It sounds questionable yes?
I feel awful even typing it out. It sounds too much like the nword and I don't like saying it.

But spade is 100% a racial slur and I wouldn't use it.
Just like I wouldn't use F*g to ask for a cigg in America. UNQOUTE

can you go be done with me, you stalker.

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

I wasn't replying to you, obviously, and if you think your full post makes anything in more context, you're utterly wrong.

Again, niggardly has NO OTHER MEANINGS. It's not racist whatsoever. For god's sake, the chairman of the freaking NAACP called the mayor a fool for firing the guy over using it, and said he "should bring him back—and order dictionaries issued to all staff who need them."

Don't want me to reply to you? Done and done; just stop responding to me.

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

take my words and my name out of your racist mouth.

goodbyeeee for the 65784564th time.

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

What are your favorite birds? (trying to change the subject)

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

Well, I have a parakeet. And I like every bird. My dream goal is to get a chicken.

what's your favorite animal?

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

I don't know... cats, perhaps? I was just trying to ease the tension :)

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

okay cool : )
cats are cool, they keep ghosts away so I've heard. (I have a story about that).

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[–] Apis (1624) 8 years ago

Cool, I'd like to hear it, but not right now as I have a series to finish.

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[–] kspkap (13568) 8 years ago

@CactusPants

As per you:"But spade is 100% a racial slur and I wouldn't use it."

Without a doubt your brain is missing some of those "little gray cells"(Poirot). I would say one meg ohm from ear to ear! Even though Dazed quoted an article explaining the phrase "to call a spade a spade" you refuse to accept it! The word "niggardly has been explained, but that also is not to be accepted by you. You know, CactusPants, sometimes a ♠️ is just a ♠️! How about "to call a club a club"....both suits are black?

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[–] Isthisyourhomework (283) 8 years ago

I suppose Bob Barker was a racist when he used to remind Price is Right fans to have their pets spade or neutered? Or am I using the wrong homophobe?

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

spay*
is the correct wording.

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[–] April-151-CT (10210) 8 years ago

Spayed 😉

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[–] MinaVladimir (4081) 8 years ago

'Or am I using the wrong homophobe?' Good one Isthisyourhomework :D

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[–] Isthisyourhomework (283) 8 years ago

:D

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[–] smns65 (38) 8 years ago

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[–] [deleted] 8 years ago

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[–] CactusPants (363) 8 years ago

I'm not responding to the topic anymore.

" Leia,I'm sorry you're getting this reply instead of cactus, but she is one of the few I placed on my ignore list a day or so ago when I realised what an obnoxious poster she truly is."

"Frankly, it did cross my mind that she's trolling, but at this point all I can say for certain is she's combative, unreasonable"

So that stuff is being said about me....can you guys talk about something else other than me..thank you???

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Oh yeah, everything's ALL about you. That's some ego you've got there. You reap what you've sowed. Don't like it? Stop behaving the way you have been with this unreasonable, insulting, knee-jerk crap. And don't lie about others.

It's all really very simple.

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[–] Nipsey_Russell (1339) 8 years ago

👏 well said cat!

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[–] Catbookss (13664) 8 years ago

Thanks, Nipsey! [waves]

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[–] Wilson (879) 8 years ago

I think they asked you to leave them alone.

Stop talking them, that's pretty fucking trolly of you to completely ignore that basic request you cunt.

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