The US is a representative democracy
I read that on several reputable sites, so pretty confident about it.
So next time someone tries to "well, actually..." you when you call the US a democracy, tell them to suck it.
I read that on several reputable sites, so pretty confident about it.
So next time someone tries to "well, actually..." you when you call the US a democracy, tell them to suck it.
To the Republic for which it stands...
This is old news.
Also a Republic, but it's not inaccurate to call it a representative democracy - or shorten that to democracy!
Both are valid. So no correction needed.
A republic is defined as democracy through representation. Is there something I'm missing?
shareYes. China, Cuba and North Korea are republics, also. Check out their official names.
You're using the term "republic" out of historical context. In the 1700s, the Founding Fathers were focused on liberating the U.S. from rule by a monarchy. Remember King George? Republic is defined as a government not ruled by a monarchy. That's why China and North Korea can call themselves republics, but the United Kingdom can't.
In the 1700s, monarchies were the norm, therefore overthrowing King George was a major radical move.
The U.S. is a republic, but that just means we don't have a king. A better and more accurate description is representative democracy. In other words, the U.S. is more than just not having a monarchy, we are "a government of, by and for the people". That was an extremely radical idea back in the 1700s.
Ironically, your historical context is off here since the intention was to emulate the Roman Republic and its legendary divergence from a monarchy. The Founding Fathers were fearful of democracy and rule by "...persons of mean and vile condition" just as much, potentially even more so, as they were frustrated with rule under the British Crown. Rome's solution was both well documented and was held in great esteem as a paragon of civilization and accomplishment.
Effectually, CM is right that the US most closely approximates an oligarchy with a thin veneer that primarily serves as a pressure relief valve for the exploitation and wrongs incurred by the working class. On that we can agree.
"to emulate the Roman Republic and its legendary divergence from a monarchy."
You're agreeing with me since I wrote: "Republic is defined as a government not ruled by a monarchy."
The rest of your answer is a whitewashed oversimplification taught in public schools. There were THREE influences for the U.S.:
1. Ancient Roman Republicanism influenced American principles of representative democracy, separation of powers, and checks and balances in the government.
Remember that a small elite ruled over the masses who had little to no power like slaves and women. Southern slaveholding Founding Fathers like Washington and Jefferson were from the gentry class in Britain, but didn't inherit wealth which went to the oldest son. They wanted to recreate the gentry in the U.S. with a small elite ruling over the masses like Rome and Britain. They were successful since the South was basically an oligarchy with no rights for blacks, women and poor whites. The latter had no public schools, rights to vote or hold office and paid most taxes.
2. The Age of Enlightenment influenced American society through ideas of reason, liberty, and democratic governance, which helped shape the foundation of the U.S. political system. Northern states emulated this model especially groups like the Quakers for democratic participation of citizens, equality and liberalism. There were townhalls for public political participation, public schools, voting rights and holding office, anti-slavery, everyone paid taxes and support for public institutions.
The dichotomy between these two groups continue today. FDR reforms represented #2 from the 1940-70s when most common folks economically progressed. 1970s-now represents #1 in which rich become richer and more powerful while everyone else becomes poorer.
Oligarchy almost never ends well (usually war or revolution). 1st ended in Civil War. 2d ended by FDR New Deal. We're in the 3rd age of oligarchy.
3. The Iroquois Confederacy influenced American ideas of federalism and governance, as the structure of their confederacy provided a model for unity and cooperation among different tribes.
"Representative" stands for "having to buy a package deal" of good and bad ideas where you can only decide for what you think is "the lesser evil".
Politics in representative democracies is always corrupt, because there's always the option to smuggle very unpopular ideas into the package, as long as the overall package seems to be the lesser evil for the majority of voters.
Direct democracy as they have in Switzerland doesn't have that problem, because there the people can demand a referendum on any political decision they don't like and the result of such a referendum is binding for the politicians.
In Switzerland there's virtually no corruption in politics, politicians cannot smuggle in unpopular ideas, because the people have the option to decide on every single political decision individually, filter out and overturn only the ones the people don't like.
Interesting... That sounds feasible. The public wouldn't have to be involved in every decision, but if say, they wanted to get rid of office holders being exempt from insider trading laws, call a referendum.
One of the problems we have is that both sides do a lot of the shit, one's just worse than the other (which is worse depends on your views).
It's very simple organized, when some people want to overturn a political decision all they have to do is collect 50,000 signatures, which guarantees that half a dozen idiots with a stupid idea cannot call a referendum, but 50,000 out of 8.7 million citizens is less than 1% of the population even if you subtract the children under 18 who cannot vote.
Of course, once you have corrupt politicians in office they will do anything they can to stay in power, meaning they will preserve the representative part.
In the centuries that Switzerland has existed, the fact that the people will overturn any decision they don't like has become such a certainty that politicians rarely try to smuggle in anything unpopular anymore, meaning there aren't many referendums neccessary anymore.
The results of this speak for themselves, i.e. Switzerland has never participated in any war, they have remained neutral through 2 world wars raging all around them and they have managed to drag their advantage out of it, i.e. they took a lot of Nazi gold into their bank vaults that after the war wasn't claimed by anyone because the owners were all dead.
The glaring problem with the citizen referendum system is the tyranny of minuscule majorities over the rights of everyone else. And the Swiss have had several referendum where majorities barely exceeding a 50% threshold passed plainly racist and discriminatory mandates on religious and immigrant minorities. The analogous citizen initiative process in California has been a financial disaster for the state. Well funded political interests use off-year elections involving tiny voter turnout percentages to pass ballot measures with massive economic consequences via significantly less than a majority of the voting population. A recent evaluation of California’s citizen referendum system found that about half of the ballot measures were authored or funded by wealthy corporate interests or rich and powerful individuals.
I’m not sure which founding father said it but there is a lot of truth to the saying that direct democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
You really don't see the difference?
You really believe a referendum system where people decide every detail one by one that fairly often has results close to 50/50 would be so much worse than a representative system where the whole package people vote for every 4 years is almost always a very close race around 50/50?
You don't see the advantages of deciding all details one by one? Isn't it totally obvious that even IFFFFFF there may be decisions in between where the results are influenced by media propaganda that's still better than having to buy a package with loads of really bad ideas in it?
You don't see that the direct democracy doesn't have any political corruption which all by itself is such a major advantage that this alone is reason enough to prefer it?
You can't seriously think that "the tyranny of minuscule majorities" would be worse than the tyranny of the top1% forcing their will on the 99% through corruption.
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“Democracy is four wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.” — Ambrose Bierce
“Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.” — John Adams
“Democracies have been found incompatible with personal security or the rights of property; and in general been as short in their lives as they have been violent in their death.” — James Madison
“The experience of all former ages had shown that of all human governments, democracy was the most unstable, fluctuating and short-lived.” — John Quincy Adams
“It has been observed that a pure democracy if it were practicable would be the most perfect government. Experience has proved that no position is more false than this. The ancient democracies in which the people themselves deliberated never possessed one good feature of government. Their very character was tyranny; their figure deformity.” — Alexander Hamilton
The U.S. is more of an oligarchy with a representative democracy veneer.
share^^^ This
shareI knew one day we'd find something we completely agree on. Based.
shareOligarchy = rich white men
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wealthiest_Americans_by_net_worth
Blame them for the mess instead of women, minorities and immigrants.
You are so deluded. If it weren't for the vast contributions of "rich white men", you'd be living in the dark ages.
shareWe had a nice moment and you had to ruin it.
shareThis is a republic.
Democracy is mob rule.
Is this some new MAGA dogma?
I see TV fan has posted the same stuff also with zero elaboration
My elaboration is self-explanatory in the five quotes I posted further up on this page.
shareok , I've read them , a lot of old timers saying democracy is no good .
Could you help me out , what the difference with what the USA has?
you said
Representative = Indirect
Democracy = Mob Rule
does this mean the second one means everyone votes on everything
and the first is small groups elect a representative to vote on things for them?
or have I got that wrong?
The simplest explanations:
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1807472050065338368/pu/vid/avc1/540x540/6txCbhM5gRJ9NqJd.mp4?tag=12
https://video.twimg.com/ext_tw_video/1835777265877291008/pu/vid/avc1/640x592/H2aTiNtI8YfjgFCc.mp4?tag=12
The word “democracy” appears ZERO times in the Declaration of Independence; the US Constitution; and the Bill of Rights.
watched them both, thanks.
So its the constitution?
Thats the difference? Thats whats stopping the country collapsing under the failure of a mob rule democracy?
All the other free western countries seem to get along without one just fine.
The US is both a representative democracy and a republic.
The UK is both a representative democracy and a "crowned republic". A crowned republic functions as a representative democracy (or as some would use the term, "republic") but with a monarch as head of state.
UK is a constitutional monarchy and parliamentary democracy unitary.
Republic means they have no monarchy, therefore UK cannot be a republic.
"constitutional monarchy"
where does the constitutional bit come in?
"A constitutional monarchy is a form of government where a monarch shares power with a constitutionally organized government. The monarch's power is limited by a constitution, which also gives law-making power to the legislature."
Representative = Indirect
Democracy = Mob Rule
Democracies turn into dictatorships 99% of the time.
We are a Constitutional Republic, not a Democracy.
"Nearly half of dictatorships start as a military coup, though others have been started by legal maneuvering by autocratic elites to take power within their government."
The latter is whats going on in America right now.
U.S. is a democracy. How do you not know this? It's on the U.S. Citizenship exam:
https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/questions-and-answers/OoC_100_Questions_2008_Civics_Test_V1.pdf
You should be stripped of your citizenship and deported.
We don't live by "citizenship exams", we live by the Declaration of Independence; the US Constitution; and the Bill of Rights ... Show me where the word "Democracy" is included in any of those three?
shareDemocratic Republic
share