Left and Right - Politics Discussion

[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

The “Doctrina del Fascismo” was created by a far-left Marxist called Giovanni Gentile along with Benito Mussolini and then the “left” moved it from the left to the right of the spectrum at the end of World War II in 1945 so it goes down in history books as a right-wing ideology when it is actually a left-wing Marxist philosophy because the “left” was too ashamed and desperate to associate “Fascism/Nazism” on the same side as “Communism”… both are and will always be a far-left Marxist ideology.
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Sources: https://pastes.io/7mftev74la

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

You are as full of S4 now as you were every other time you've tried to push this bizarre wacko theory.

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[–] B1cKsurN (17629) 2 years ago

But he's 100% correct.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

"Here's my political axis that I just expect people to accept as completely factual"

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

It is a known fact, but you and some of the other lefties here do not care about facts. You only care about spreading lies and obfuscation. The left has been lying and deceiving for decades because it is their only weapon and tool.

But you know that already, otherwise, you would have provided the sources to refute my factual statement.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> you and some of the others here do not care about facts.

If you cared about facts, or logic, or discussion ... or anything but spewing your foolishness, you would never say anything so stupid.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

I stated facts and you stated lies and false information as you are always doing.
You are another of the well known liars on this site.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

You are the well known liar on this site.
You right wing-nuts and your word games.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Your post is a lie just like your other lies and you know that.

Provide evidence to refute the facts I stated or stop talking bullshit out of your ass.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Fascism is not democratic, therefore it is of the right - whatever your goofball friend Giovanni Gentile who no one has ever heard of before says. It is just like you to pick some obscure BS and use to it lie about something everyone knows.

You support the right and you don't want people to understand that you are anti-democracy, so you push these cornball lies.

And you know it! Hahaha, rabid D7.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance and ineptitude at lying.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Who cares? If you pick your nose as much as you pick your nits you must look like a real porker.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 2 years ago

its facts!
its lies!
its facts!
its lies!
its facts!
its lies!
its facts!
its lies!
its facts!
its lies!

why dont one of you look it up

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Look what up, where?
All one needs do is think about it.
Thinking is what the Right hates.
They want rote brainwashed, programming ... regimentation.
They hate democracy, which is why they are fascists, but they
don't want to be stuck with the label.

Google "Newt Gingrich NLP" and find out what BS is all we ever get from the Right, and that the Right-wing media has normalized that. Of course they are going to mess with definitions of political terms. Who cares what some obscure Italian guy no one has ever heard about said once. No one took it seriously at the time, and no one cares now.

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 2 years ago

I dont disagree with any of that .
I just didnt think it would be as difficult as it seems to be for mc users of all sides to agree on basic words definitions like 'facism'

but , as you say , certain demographics seem brainwashed and unable to see reason , logic , facts , or history

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[–] Satan2016 (25894) 2 years ago

You are a deranged lying scumbag! You didn't even click on any of his links.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

;-) ... so, not bothering to click on links makes one a deranged lying scumbag? You're so emotional. Is it the time of month when you need your satanitary napkin?

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[–] B1cKsurN (17629) 2 years ago

Fascism = Capitalism - Democracy

OMG, you can't be serious...who told you that?

Fascism is the merger of corporations and state governments to impose authoritarian control while circumventing the laws of the land.

We are actually seeing this play out in real time with the Democrats and Big Tech.

Right-wing values are about individual liberty...the opposite of collectivism. The US education system(and frankly Western Education as a whole) is completely compromised. 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Well that must make many Republicans who want to ban pornography, roll back LGBT rights and convert the US into a Christian Iran pretty authoritarian and collectivist then.

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[–] JoWilli (20952) 2 years ago

another BBB bot. been posting for a whole 2 days. how much are you getting paid?

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

What do you even mean by "BBB" exactly?

Do you just assume anyone who disagrees with you is a paid bot?

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

You are a bot or a sock puppet that doesn’t care about facts because all that matters is “YOUR” opinion regardless of how wrong and full of shit you are.

Even a high level A.I. is programmed to know which countries are currently “Communist”.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Where did I say all that matters is my opinion?

China is a state capitalist country.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

China is Communist all day every day.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

I disagree, and have given you multiple sources as to why.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Therefore; it is just YOUR opinion, regardless of the actual facts ..... as I have just stated above.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Of course it's my opinion. Who's saying it? Me. I have to be backed up with actual sources though.

All you're doing is pointing to their flag and saying "look, communist" - and ignoring how modern China actually functions.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

I provided you with six irrefutable and incontrovertible sources.

You know the facts, but you refuse them because all that matters is "YOUR" opinion, as I have already stated.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

You just gave me sheets that pretty much just look at definitions, and historical association.

In practice, China is not a communist state. It does not function like one anymore. Actual communists would laugh at the idea that modern China is communist.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Your opinion doesn't change the facts. China is "Communist"

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

It's not even just my opinion. I've given you sources from economists, and Chinese commentators.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

You mean other lying communists, LOL

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

You think the Harvard Business Review is Communist?

You think the CSIS is Communist?

https://www.csis.org/analysis/chinese-state-capitalism

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Where does any of that say that they are "not" Communist?

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/publication/211007_Kennedy_Chinese_State_Capitalism.pdf?VersionId=34C5XDb775Ws8W6TZ6oMGPlWhIY8Z.rf

Read the full report if you want, I doubt you bothered to look.

https://www.cato.org/policy-report/january/february-2013/how-china-became-capitalist

"Given our account of how China became capitalist, what can we say about the form of capitalism that has emerged in China? A persisting feature of China’s market transition is the lack of political liberalization. This is not to say that the Chinese political system has stood still over the past 35 years. The Party has distanced itself from radical ideology; it is no longer communist except in name. In recent years, the internet has increasingly empowered the Chinese to exercise their political voice. Nonetheless, China remains ruled by a single political party."

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

When you go looking for lies, you will find them.

None of that changes the fact that they are still Communist.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

What makes them lies? It advances a comprehensive argument.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctv16t6f7c

Here's a book written on their development into capitalism.

All you're doing is going "no u!"

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

You are such a liar, you already know that they are Communist in practice.

Do you remember what you said during our first conversation after I suggested that you move to China?

Here, let me refresh your memory:
These are your own words

China is not remotely socially liberal. I'm deeply anti-authoritarian.

https://moviechat.org/bd0000082/Politics/63c1a5f291b62a0f9308db17/Exactly-2-years-ago-i-came-to-this-website-and?reply=63e95d03e86a357e30974d88

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Don't presume to tell me what I do and do not think. You are not me. I decide what I think, not you. Is that clear? Every single time you accuse me of lying in any context, I will now report you.

Here, let me refresh your memory:
These are your own words

What is the relevance here? China is authoritarian. China is not socially liberal.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

Not a presumption, they are your own words after I suggested that you move there.

They are Communist in practice even by your indirect admittance.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

You calling me a liar is you trying to dictate to me what I think.

And again, what does China being authoritarian have to do with anything here?

They are not communist in practice. You can keep pointlessly repeating it, and I will just keep responding the same way.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

You are the most obtuse denier.

Being authoritarian has everything to do with it. You know that already even by your admittance since you would not move there, and yet you refuse to admit the fact that they are "Communist" in practice.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Being authoritarian has everything to do with it. You know that already even by your admittance since you would not move there, and yet you refuse to admit the fact that they are "Communist" in practice.

No, it doesn't. Iran is authoritarian, but not communist. Russia is authoritarian, but not communist. Belarus is authoritarian, but not communist.

Being authoritarian does not mean you are communist in ideology.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

I never mentioned any of those countries.

China is Communist in practice and it is a historical fact.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

No, you did not. But I was pointing out that me saying that China is authoritarian is not some veiled admission that they're communist because there is no direct relation there.

They are not communist in practice. You can keep pointlessly repeating it, and I will just keep responding the same way.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

China is authoritarian is not some veiled admission that they're communist because there is no direct relation there.

Dozens of sources show them as an authoritarian communist state which you are already aware since you admitted that you would not move there.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

No, dozens of sources just list them as Communist due to their history and nothing else. They make no observation as to how contemporary China works, unlike my sources.

And no, I said I wouldn't move there because they're authoritarian. I did not reference communism, or lack of.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

They make no observation as to how contemporary China works, unlike my sources.

They are Authoritarian and this is how that works:

"Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

"Favoring or enforcing strict obedience to authority, especially that of the government, at the expense of personal freedom."

Right.

And that would include countries like Russia, Belarus, Iran, Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Singapore etc.

Countries that are authoritarian are not necessarily communist.

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[–] tvfan (13756) 2 years ago

But China is "Communist".

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

I disagree. We're going around in circles.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Because you want to label them bad. You are evil because you do not discuss - you proclaim, and what you proclaim is BS Right-wing propaganda. The Right is evil. Not necessarily because of their ideas, because whatever they say they do not subscribe to ideas, they proclaim absolute knowledge - in the face if reality that has F4ed up the country since Reagan, and Left that has been just as taken over by money but plays Bonnie to the Right's Clyde.

Don't look to this guy for reason, he has none. He has Newt Gingrich's rhetorical tricks - how to throw a monkey wrench into any discussion by being an A7.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

You seem to have communism derangement syndrome. Why are you so unhinged?

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

You're wasting your time.
When someone claims to be a "true believer" and insists you accept their twisted BS "facts" you are wasting your time.

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

Now I will ask you to stop spamming me about this. If you want to address what I say in a thread about the thread topic, by all means. But this is getting boring, and is approaching borderline harassment. I'm tired of repeating my position over and over.

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[–] JoWilli (20952) 2 years ago

https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/

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[–] moviechatterer (16049) 2 years ago

"Well that must make many Republicans who want to ban pornography, roll back LGBT rights and convert the US into a Christian Iran pretty authoritarian and collectivist then."

is no one going to respond to that?

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[–] Skavau (15993) 2 years ago

"Freedom for me, but not for thee"

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

If you could actually think, you'd understand that doesn't work.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Without democracy, capitalism will always evolve towards fascism because of the corruption of elites..
That is why fascists like you want to end social programs, you hate elections and try to rig them, and you don't want regulations and are OK with train crashes as long as they don't kill you or your thug peers.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> Right-wing values are about individual liberty.

You claim that, just like the communists claimed they were pursuing a worker's paradise, it's all bait and switch by those who manipulate people with words and ideas and only seek their own gain.

You focus on Big Tech, but every sector of the economy is the same way, and when you scratch the surface of the stories about Big Tech, past the BS propaganda from the Right, you always find it is the Right that weaponized their economic control and ownership - in an undemocratic way. That is what fascism is, not some outdated ideas of what they "claimed" it was almost 100 years ago when they were trying to appeal to people.

Look at what they do, not what they say.

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[–] Rorikon (18126) 2 years ago

Incorrect, any far left/right group are repressive. Communism is left-wing.

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[–] chilone (18067) 2 years ago

💯

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

In your uninformed illogical opinion - by decree. I don't buy it.
That is the problem with any government by elite minority - the incentives are to turn criminal and make it right-wing.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> Incorrect, any far left/right group are repressive. Communism is left-wing.

It's cute the you think you can proclaim absolute truth in a Right-wing fascist way. The very structure or your lack-of-argument proves that you are a dishonest Right-wing propaganda operative.

Words are tools, and your use of them is a tool of manipulation, not freedom. That's why you always use the work liberty instead of freedom.

Maybe you could describe the difference?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?
What is the functional difference to you between liberty and freedom?

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[–] DestroFirefly (51) 2 years ago

I think the greatest boon to the ruling elites is people just like you. You see, you will roll in dung squabbling over this or that party, this or that latest injustice, or this and that new manufactured media story. You will will get riled up, you will fight tooth and nail (from your keyboard) defending your precious ideology....

All the while you are not even remotely conscious or aware. You are the perfect little proletariat. You get angry when they tell you to get angry, you get sad when they tell you to get sad, and you never think or act outside of the box. It never actually occurs to you that the reality you live in and the narrative you suckle on is orchestrated.

While you argue over Jeremy Clarkson or the Republican party the ruling elite are on a feeding frenzy or corruption, greed and power. You have no idea how they function, what their goals are or even that they operate at all. You are their perfect little puppet proletariat.

While you were quivering in tears because somebody slandered Meghan Markle the most dire unchecked corruption has been at play above your plane of consciousness.

While you seethed in rage because somebody on the right wing broke wind titanic greed and nihilistic machinations have been running amok.

But you can't see any of it can you. Don't you get it, right or left wing, it doesn't matter? Keep the public divided, arguing over fripperies while they go about the same business they have been from day DOT.

But you were too busy being woke to notice, too busy with all your other sheep. Bah, Bah, Bah.

I would tell you to wake the hell up but there is absolutely not point. You are so deeply entrenched in the narrative and fake Clownworld that you simply would refuse to acknowledge the truth if it was slapping you in the face.

You, and the many like you, are the biggest problem. The politicians and ruling elite may be evil and corrupt, but it is the sheep like you that will ensure their longevity.

Dismissed.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> Don't you get it, right or left wing, it doesn't matter? Keep the public divided, arguing over fripperies

And you are the great unifier with this kind of garbage?

> You see, you will roll in dung squabbling over this or that party, this or that latest injustice, or this and that new manufactured media story. You will will get riled up, you will fight tooth and nail (from your keyboard) defending your precious ideology....

You are talking about your fears and ignorance. Most of the people here online talk like you - so there's your sheep.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

Socialism is anti-capitalist
You are confusing capitalism with markets. Socialism can have markets too.
Socialism ≠ Capitalism + Democracy
Socialism = socialism + Democracy
Socialism is only legitimate if you have a democracy because socialism, as the name implies, is about giving all the power to the society as a whole, and people don't have that power if their society is being run by an authoritarian party, even if that party is working for the benefit of the people.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> Socialism is anti-capitalist

Tell it to all the socialist democracies in Northern Europe that are all capitalist, lie-bot.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

No, they are mixed economies. They have about 35% socialist enterprises that are owned by the state and controlled democratically by the people, and the rest are private businesses which are capitalistic in nature. The problem is you are applying the word socialism to the country as a whole, that is not a useful way to do it. You should be applying it to the industry, to the work place, to the various policies the country has implemented.
If you want to talk about the country as a whole than you have to haggle about percentages, for example how much of the industry of the country has to be socialistic before you call it a socialist country, 51%? 66%? 99%?. The point is that is a stupid way to look at it.
The goal of socialism is to implement socialistic policies that give the power to the people and provide all sorts of socialized services, create socialistic industries where the workers have control over the industry by being owners and operators and having a democratic say in what the company does, and creating social wealth funds where people get dividends from a collective ownership of resources. When you think of it this way, you are actually talking about something, rather than wasting your time on definitions.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

It's all capitalistic ... with different rules benefitting different classes ... that's all.
I don't want to hear your pretentious nonsense.

> The goal of socialism is to implement socialistic policies that give the power to the people

No, the goal of socialism is to bring democracy to the economic system, and the prevent the rich from taking over the country as democracy in the political arena prevents the powerful from taking over the country

Democracy politically is socialism economically - and it is all, always, always, always capitalism ... that is how people are brainwashed ... that is the bug introduced into your brain and you need to perceive and hack out.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

You are too stupid too live. You have the lethal combination of ignorance, arrogance, and stubbornness.
I have run out of patience, sorry, I don't speak retard.

So instead I'll leave you with this:
Here are two videos with Matt Bruenig who is a socialist. In the first, he explains socialism and in the second he has a conversation with a capitalist (Econoboi) about socialism and a detailed practical way of how to implement it.

Using Corporate Governance to Understand Socialism
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmeIGcI60oc

Discussing & Debating Socialism w/Matt Bruenig | Sovereign Wealth Funds, Capital Markets, and More!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPu7ne8tpV8

Watch them, maybe you'll learn something, that way you won't sound like an empty headed dunce.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

>> You are too stupid too live. You have the lethal combination of ignorance, >> arrogance, and stubbornness.
>> I have run out of patience, sorry, I don't speak retard.
>> So instead I'll leave you with this:
> .... blah, blah, blah ....

LOL, you're a kick.

It's all capitalism ... but with different rules benefitting different classes ... that's all.

The goal of socialism is to bring democracy to the economic system, and the prevent the rich from taking over the country as democracy in the political arena prevents the powerful from taking over the country.

Of course the virtual fascist, anti-democratic, anti-worker establishment in the US wishes it could control the definition of socialism ... social, for the people ... and discredit it before people can think about it. That is half the job of manufacturing consent. You've lapped it up and ask for more.

Democracy politically is socialism economically - and it is all, always, always, always capitalism ... that is how people are brainwashed ... that is the bug introduced into your brain and you need to perceive and hack out.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about. I AM a socialist, I am critical with the rights idiotic characterization of socialism (and communism for that matter). I am giving you sources from an actual socialist that knows what he's talking about. You are confused. You have no idea of what socialism is. If you want to make up bullshit and call it socialist, then go ahead, but no one will take you seriously, nor should they.

And don't bother with the petty vacuous insults, you're just embarrassing yourself.

Stop being an ignorant waterheaded dunce and go read a book or watch those videos I gave you.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> I am giving you sources from an actual socialist that knows what he's talking about.

And how much traction have they ever gotten with the people?
Nothing, Nada, Zilch.

Noting that you refuse to address my comments and only can repeat the same nonsense as well as insult ... keep wondering why no one buys into your silly notions of socialism.

You claim authority, I have plain common sense. You have insults, I have communication. You refuse to address the content, I provide modeling that a reasonable person can understand and work with.

You're no socialist ... maybe a National Socialist from way back.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

Norway already has a system like that. They have many of those policies implemented. The only thing I'm calling for is for them to keep going, keep moving in that direction, and move away from capitalism. And the other thing I'm calling for is for the same thing to happen here (U.S.).

You claim authority, I have plain common sense. You have insults, I have communication. You refuse to address the content, I provide modeling that a reasonable person can understand and work with.

You have no common sense, and you are speaking from a position of ignorance and embarrassing yourself.
I addressed your content by telling you that it's invalid and has nothing to do with socialism.

You're no socialist ... maybe a National Socialist from way back.

Nope. Hey bata bata bata Swing...Ouch!...A swing and a miss. Womp Womp Womp...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tKdcjJoXeEY
Fail.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> Nope. Hey bata bata bata Swing...Ouch!...A swing and a miss. Womp Womp Womp...

A real scholar.

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

Whilst my predilection for discursive erudition is manifest, I also revel in the humorous. Not every phrase warrants the burden of academic heft, and I delight in infusing wit into my oeuvre. My aim is to amalgamate the spheres of cerebral depth and jocularity, engendering a rapport with my readership that extends beyond mere academic regard.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

Spoken like a true AuI

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[–] InquiringMind (2272) 2 years ago

What the fuck is an AuI? Do you mean AI? If so, sorry to disappoint, I assure you I'm human.
As for my comment, you implied you wanted scholarly, so I gave you the most pretentious response I can think of.

What, you're still unsatisfied? Make up your mind. I can speak to you plainly, so you can understand, or I can bust out the old thesaurus, and answer you in eruidite prose like a pretentious elitist prick. I'm fine with either.

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[–] Satan2016 (25894) 2 years ago

You are Moron Chat's certified most insane sociopath troll! You have never posted anything true or rational. I bet you eat horse shit too.

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

> All repressive regimes are right-wing - that is they are undemocratic.

Name one that is not?

Did you piss yourself after failing to find something mean enough to bother me?

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[–] CraigC (8481) 2 years ago

Wow, how incredibly stupid. Here's the gist of the situation, in a nutshell.

Conservatives want people to be free. All people. We want all Americans to be free, independent and to prosper. All we ask in return is to fully accept their personal responsibility as free Americans, obey the law, vote their conscience, raise their children responsibly and to pay their own way if they are able.

Liberals want everybody to be safe, freedom is an afterthought. They don't want to hear any dissent. They want everyone to fall in line with their ideology, or be canceled, tarred & feathered.

Which sounds more fascist?

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[–] TrentnQuarantino (9381) 2 years ago

All that stuff about Conservatives ... that is what you say you want, because you have to lie to people in order to get elected. That's why you put so much money and effort into it. No one can be free in a group that is filled with so many lies. Take your hint from Hitler/Goebbels.

And speaking of lies, whatever you say about Liberals is just another in a long string of lies to discredit, going back to the ancient pharohs and how they held power over their slaves. Someday humankind will either find a way to exorcise your liars or you will pull the whole world down, with your lies, like Exxon lied about Global Warming. Your lies are getting bigger, more violent and more dangerous.

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[–] CraigC (8481) 2 years ago

What I said is the absolute truth. It is what I want, it is what we want, in the simplest of terms.

The problem is that you believe a whole lot of shit that ain't true, because you've been lied to for so long, plain and simple.

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