MovieChat Forums > Politics > Lying about your "opposition's" views

Lying about your "opposition's" views


I hate that shit. I just wrapped up dinner and am just sitting her digesting. The lead in had a snippet of Hillary saying, "This is about controlling women."

Ugh, shut up. No one gives a fuck about your body - which is evident by denying abortions in rape or medically necessary cases - some people view it as murder. It's the termination of innocent life, it's really not that outrageous of a claim.

Why do people do this? Members of both parties do it too. All the time.

Conservatives did it with masks and lockdowns. It wasn't about control you idiots, people actually believed those actions would curtail Covid.

You don't have to agree with someone to be honest about arguing their point.

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Because people want to win at all costs.

Changing the argument to suit your defence is the standard play.

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Wrong.

"If it was about babies, we’d have excellent and free universal maternal care. You wouldn’t be charged a cent to give birth, no matter how complicated your delivery was. If it was about babies, we’d have months and months of parental leave, for everyone.

If it was about babies, we’d have free lactation consultants, free diapers, free formula. If it was about babies, we’d have free and excellent childcare from newborns on. If it was about babies, we’d have universal preschool and pre-k and guaranteed after school placements.

If it was about babies, IVF and adoption wouldn’t just be for folks with thousands and thousands of dollars to spend on expanding their families.

It’s not about babies. It’s about punishing women (and all people with uteruses) and controlling our bodies."

https://twitter.com/leilacohan/status/1521690766187237377

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Universal healthcare (for children) does not exist, therefor people do not care about children is the definition of a logical fallacy.

"It’s not about babies. It’s about punishing women (and all people with uteruses) and controlling our bodies."

This is crazy talk.

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Then explain to me why the "pro-life" crowd doesn't support any policies that protect the child AFTER it has been born...

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Can you provide examples of such policies?

You should really read this...
https://humandefense.com/yes-pro-life-advocates-do-care-about-children-after-birth/

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Well let's see, universal healthcare, raising the minimum wage, expanding Medicaid for starters...

Then there's this:

"Last Thursday, 39 million American parents began receiving a monthly child allowance ($300 per child under six, and $250 per child from six through 17). It’s the biggest helping hand to American families in more than 85 years.

They need it. Even before the pandemic, child poverty had reached post-war records. Even non-poor families were in trouble, burdened with deepening debt and missed payments. Most were living paycheck to paycheck – so if they lost a job, they and their kids could be plunged into poverty.

But every single Republican in both the House and Senate voted against the measure."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jul/18/child-allowance-payments-american-rescue-plan-republicans

Can YOU provide examples of such policies that they DO support?

lol at your link from a pro-life website! You want an equally biased counterargument? Here ya go!

https://www.prochoiceamerica.org/campaign/the-hypocrisy-of-the-pro-life-movement/

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Well let's see, universal healthcare, raising the minimum wage, expanding Medicaid for starters...


Those have literally fuck all to do with raising a child and are generic lefty loon talking points. I'm not readng the rest of your bullshit and no one else should either.

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"Can YOU provide examples of such policies that they DO support?"

So, the answer is no, then?

I didn't think so...
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Actually, all you smart people have changed my mind...I no longer want to murder innocent babies and I'm going to vote for Donald Trump (THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER,) and everything's going to be 🦄unicorns🦄 and 🌈rainbows!🌈

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Dude, I don't care what you say or think...your positions are in support of baby murder, and grooming children...you're a garbage human. Your opinions are irrelevant.

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Actually, all you smart people have changed my mind...I no longer want to murder innocent babies and I'm going to vote for Donald Trump (THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER,) and everything's going to be 🦄unicorns🦄 and 🌈rainbows!🌈

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Wait, providing more funding for parents to tend and care for said unwanted child have fuck all to do with raising a child, wut? Am I missing something here? Did people not learn anything from Idiocracy?

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Tell me how children have no access to healthcare without Universal Socialism in the US? Subsidized healthcare has existed in the US for decades. The minimum wage and welfare state have been a fucking disaster for the US. Children need food, shelter, clothes, shoes, and two loving parents to succeed in life. If one cannot afford such things, then unprotected sex shouldn't be happening. In fact one should be abstaining from it to ensure they don't fuck up. Personal fuckin responsibility.

All the socialism programs and family courts do is encourage people to pop out kids left and right and suck money straight from the state, and the 3 baby daddies they have(that eventually end up in jail for not paying support)...all paid for by you and me. Maybe you want to give your money to shit humans, but I do not.

Yes, you're missing quite a bit. Do you have kids?

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I also provided an example to him / her below. It will be interesting to see the response

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Pro-lifers exist outside of the USA, too. Your comment wouldn't fly in Canada.

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Supported by their constituents, Michigan’s Republican legislature passed a bill to provide for financial and material needs of expectant women and new mothers as an alternative to abortion. It was specific support that would be distributed to Catholic Charities and other groups that offer abortion alternatives and who assist those mothers who would otherwise be inclined to abortion due to financial stressors. The state’s pro-abortion Democrat governor used her line item veto to strike that aspect of the Bill. She did so after a lobbying effort of The Campaign for Accountability, a group which focuses on reducing the influence of the pro-life movement by cutting them off from any public money. This is not an isolated incident. And it’s a specific example of pro-life advocates attempting to advance public policies to help new mothers and abortion advocates using political power to block these efforts.

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Actually, all you smart people have changed my mind...I no longer want to murder innocent babies and I'm going to vote for Donald Trump (THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER,) and everything's going to be 🦄unicorns🦄 and 🌈rainbows!🌈

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Wrong. One has nothing to do with the other. When you make the very adult realization that this is about personal responsibility, the connection to "universal healthcare" goes away. YOU are responsible for your body, your uterus AND your fucking healthcare.

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It will be incredibly interesting to see if those states restricting abortion actually see a drop in unwanted pregnancies as a result of people being more accountable and using contraceptives as responsible adults

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Way to literally prove their point dude.

Hey guys, mothers don't get 100 BILLION DOLLARS every time they have a child - THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT BABIES AT ALL!!!!!

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You are so confused. Please don't vote.

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Actually, all you smart people have changed my mind...I no longer want to murder innocent babies and I'm going to vote for Donald Trump (THE BEST PRESIDENT EVER,) and everything's going to be 🦄unicorns🦄 and 🌈rainbows!🌈

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I would be thrilled if you no longer wanted to murder babies, but I know you are lying.

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Unfortunately they all vote, and its goddamned terrifying.

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Politics is all about greed and power, especially in today's world. Better to gain an advantage to gaslight the people of America by bashing the other party with ridiculous claims that aren't proven. They only focus on their job when they have actual power and support that is standing, not before. I have no doubt many politicians have been lying for many decades just to stay in power.

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If they controlled their own bodies we wouldn't be in this moral dilemma. They don't seem to care which man puts a load of jizz in them.

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Abstinence isn't real life. At least not for anyone older than a middle schooler; and even then sadly there are kids that young having sex. Animals - including humans - were built to have sex. It is in our makeup to want to do it. It's very natural and you can't repress it on a mass scale.

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That is why we developed real birth control. And then you say "oh but sometimes it doesn't work" well the truth is it works most of the time and 99% of the people getting abortions just aren't using it. Then for some reason they wait months to get an abortion

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Degenerates don't think more than 15-20 minutes into the future...what do you expect?

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💯

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Abstinence isn't real life.


The words of degeneracy.

I've abstained a few times in my life, model hot ladies too. 99.999% of men would taken advantage of the situations. It's possible, just most people are low IQ, resist free-will, and have zero concept of delayed gratification.

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Married women should abstain?

How about wives who wanted to become pregnant, but now their lives are in danger unless the baby is aborted? You want the government to make the choice instead of the woman, her husband and doctor.

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The mother's life comes first. There are VERY few people who would disagree with that.

P.S. Your mother should have abstained.

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A woman's life in danger that needs to terminate a pregnancy can have the baby removed either vaginally or c-section and let nature take its course if it's too early or be provided supportive neo-natal care if developed enough to be able to survive. Ever hear of preemies?
The baby doesn't need to have their skull crushed and limbs ripped off.

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Abortion if the mother's life is in danger will be Illegal in many states. Mom dies with the baby like you want.

I suggest you educate yourself by reading the legislation being passed in different states. It's extremist.

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What's extremist is the late term abortion. Whatever happened to "early and rare"?

"Mom does with baby like you want it" - do you mean not murder it but deliver it? Oh, how inhumane and extremist.

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Early abortions will be illegal.

You want the mother to die?

If a woman has a miscarriage, she can also go to prison.

The reality is you hate women.

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There are some where they want no abortions at all or only 4 weeks which I am not in favor of. 15 weeks is fair in my view as some mothers don't know they're pregnant within a month so gives some leeway and a pass for the first trimester and enough time to decide just at the start of the second where it would be the cut off point. If there is emergency needs then an exception can be made depending on the life/death situation and complication. I don't think we need more unintentional retards or disabled in America, do you?

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15 weeks so second trimester? They can't figure out they're pregnant within 3 months?

And eugenics now, sorry to bring up Godwin's law but you know who wanted to get rid of them. Ask those "retards" if they wish they've never been born. Maybe their purpose is to instill in us compassion.

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lives are in danger unless the baby is aborted?


Still waiting for literally anyone that agrees with this ridiculous talking point...

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Degeneracy, LOL. What year do you think it is?

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Omg.... I forgot that it's CURRENT YEAR. My bad, I totally didn't remember that anything anyone says can easily be rejected by simply claiming CURRENT YEAR.

Let's take a look at the meaning of "degeneracy" in CURRENT YEAR:

Degeneracy noun /dɪˈdʒen.ər.ə.si/ 1. the state of being degenerate 2. the process of becoming degenerate 3. sexual perversion

You can deny it all you want, but society has fallen to degenercy....even in CURRENT YEAR it's still very very relevant. The bar in western society has been lowered to the point that men chop off their dicks, and it's celebrated. Women murder their babies, and it's celebrated. Pure degeneracy, complete insanity.......in CURRENT YEAR.

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There's nothing wrong with sex. Degeneracy, ha!

Stay on topic, bud.

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I love sex (personally). Indeed, nothing wrong with it. I think I may be an addict. There is degeneracy of the mind unrelated to sex though... Something the left are more fond of in that respect.

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Please point out to me where I said "sex is bad"....

Alexa, play Final Jeopardy Theme

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Right around here:

"The words of degeneracy."

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I'm glad I've never considered sex the be-all, end-all of human existence.

It's about self control. All animals are built to have sex but we're one of few that actually does it for fun. The rest only do it to procreate. Sorry but there's no way to justify murdering unborn children so you can get your jollies without regard for the consequences.

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Married women should abstain?

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They certainly shouldn't be practicing human sacrifice ...

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Married couples should never have sex? That's crazy talk!

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Who said that?

If you conceive though, that's a risk even married couples need to mitigate if so desired.

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Married couples should use birth control or suffer the consequences. Rather than murdering their unborn children.

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This is a wedge issue. It is literally perpetuated to divide people.

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Historically, extremist conservatives want to control women by keeping them in a submissive status and only having babies and doing housework.

That's the reason it was illegal for them to vote, hold most jobs, birth control for married women was illegal, sex education for married women was illegal.

MAGA = women return to chattel status

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Okay groomer, now now let's get your blanket. The orange man cannot hurt you anymore.

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You are a lying piece of shit and everyone knows it.

It was the Democrats that didn't want women to vote, you lying reprobate.

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And the Democrats of the era were hardcore conservatives.

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I don't agree that they were 'hardcore' but the left would never elect them today.

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your posts sure are weird. things were better for you and doogie when Trump was President.

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You have problems.

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I come from a long line of northern Republicans and your liberal arts professor is wrong on women's suffrage.

However, the Left is who pushed the Sexual Revolution, in which we've seen a moral decay such as today of many out of wedlock births, "if it feels good, do it", no moral conscience on promiscuity.

You act like abortion is the only alternative but now there are many forms of birth control than when Roe v Wade was ruled upon, and it includes the morning after pill if someone really thinks they're in danger.

I think the moral conscience that is lacking is that the Left has been told that the fetus is a "clump of cells" that can feel no pain when that is not true.

Instead of taking abortion for granted as the go-to because it involves a developing human being that feels pain, how about instilling the education of personal responsibility on preventing pregnancies in the first place.

I think we have enough social programs that support single mothers but it's best to try to avoid that situation to begin with and start promoting the nuclear family again. I know that's hard for the communist ideology to wrap their head around.

The other thing is, we are finding out that Planned Parenthood is a complete racket and a political slush fund. Won't we all be sorry when their business is limited. Maybe they will decide to evolve their business into women's healthcare clinics and provide mammograms.

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The morning after pill will be illegal along with several forms of birth control including the IUD. Also, illegal are certain fertility treatments like invitro fertilization.

It used to be illegal for women to vote. How come you don't know this?

It was illegal for married women to buy condoms or for married women to prevent pregnancy. In those days, it was common for women to have 6-10 children and be poor. You'd want them to have more babies which they couldn't afford by denying them knowledge and condoms.

You obviously haven't learned history of you would know this information.

Like you, I never learned about this in school. But, I read books to learn.

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Republicans were behind the women's suffrage, that's where you are wrong. How's come YOU don't know this?

Oh, baloney on the birth control, that is a fear tactic your are purporting. All of your post is nothing but a fear tactic as bad as Eric Swalwell and the Colorado governor.

It was common for women to have many children because for one, many children died in childhood and many of those children helped out with their farm and such. Children were not looked upon as burdens, they benefitted from them and they took care of their parents in their old age, not in nursing homes. My maternal grandmother who had 7 had divorced her abusive alcoholic husband when divorce was rare and paternal great grandmother who had 10, had no complaints that they had too many kids. This is the wrong way to think. And the family members all helped each other. My paternal grandmother was widowed when my father was in her womb and had one other child. She scraped her widow's pension together and bought a house, worked a laundress type of job, and never complained about raising two fine sons who had some fatherly guidance from their uncles. One went into foreign service and worked for the State Dept at various embassies around the world and one got a degree and became an engineer. I'd say that's pretty good for small town Iowa from where they came.

And as far as being "poor", being poor in today's society is not anything like being poor during the depression that the previous generation went through. I know all about that from them, too.

But you want to paint a family in a bad light and compare it to today's consumer spending centric society that poor people can't keep up with although they have basic needs met due to the welfare state that wasn't present in their generation. I dare say, there are some single moms that purposely have more kids to collect those checks but let's not digress. The point is it can be managed.

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Women fought, were beaten and imprisoned for the right to contraception and sex education. Stop giving the credit to men!

Why do you think it should be illegal for a woman to be educated about sex and birth control?

You're in denial. Texas is already talking about forbidding women from having abortions out of state and Trump already denied health insurance for women to obtain contraception.

"In Trump’s first year in office, federal agencies weakened the ACA’s contraceptive mandate, allowing employers to deny birth control coverage if they had a religious or moral objection. Though the rollback was quickly tied up in the courts, dozens of employers signed separate settlements with the administration allowing them to refuse to cover birth control."
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/system-failure/the-trump-administrations-war-on-birth-control/

"U.S. Supreme Court Lets Private Companies Deny Birth Control Coverage to Employees"
https://reproductiverights.org/u-s-supreme-court-lets-private-companies-deny-birth-control-coverage-to-employees/

Some religions are against ALL birth control. The GOP is already following religious fanatics. Attached is a list of states allowing denial of contraception and sterilization by pharmacists:
https://www.guttmacher.org/state-policy/explore/refusing-provide-health-services
Why is any state denying contraception at all to anyone???

Not everyone lived on a farm. Many city folks didn't want to have an 11th child. Most poor people today have very few children. That will likely change if Roe is overturned, therefore don't whine about supporting their kids for 18 years.

Black people, Asians, Hispanics and Native Americans weren't allowed to have the opportunities your family had. Discrimination in housing, jobs and colleges. White skin privilege. Funny how you don't know those state department jobs were for "whites only". It's 2022 and there is still a major issue re: racism and sexual assaults:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/03/16/state-department-diversity-problem-476161

My parents grew up during the Depression. You don't know what you're talking about. People were poor. There were relief programs to help the poor from charities and some local governments. FDR expanded it. I used to talk about the Depression with my parents, aunts and supervisors all the time.

BTW, the Republican party was progressive and the Democrats status quo conservatives at that time. Something YOU didn't know.

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Is there are word limit on this forum because it wouldn't let me finish.

A two parent household is the best prevention against extreme poverty but there is no extreme in America unless it's related to drug use. And I can say a single mother is able to do it, too, and with gumption.

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There's a way around the word limit, but I have no intention of telling you. Figure it out yourself, Sherlock!

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Out of wedlock, HA! Who talks like this? I hate the way the left looks at abortion. Fuck the father, clump of cells, MY body - fuck all of that. But abstinence is not real life for anyone older than a middle school kid.

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Oh, yes, "out of wedlock" is so dated now, isn't it? Before they were called bastards and by definition, still are. You've proved my point on moral decay, and this is just from the 80's where most people still tried to have some respectability so avoided out of wedlock pregnancies with either abstinence or birth control. Dare I say, it was actually considered a sin so maybe that's why people were careful if they were sexually active. Whatever happened to "safe sex" due to STDs and with the advent of AIDS? It still happened on occasion, and many considered it a greater sin to not keep the baby. Now, no one bats an eyelash at any of it.

I guess marriage and children within it shouldn't mean anything for a heterosexuals but it sure is sacrosanct for gay people.

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Yep. I just heard the POS governor of Colorado say that if Roe Vs. Wade is overturned, inter-racial marriages could be outlawed. Who in their right mind would vote for a liar like that?

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Eric Swalwell repeated that same ridiculous rhetoric. Maybe we should ban white men from sleeping with Chinese spies.

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You don't understand legislation. Overturning Roe & Wade sets new precedent which can be used to legally overturn other legislation which were based on similar precedent.

That would not only include interracial marriages, but also gay marriages, birth control and sexual positions.

What you took for granted will be lost. It used to be illegal to have sex on Sunday. That's the world you want to bring back.

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Cry me a river, talk about going off the deep end. This is hysterics and you bought it lock, stock, and barrel.

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Explain why it wouldn't be illegal based on legal precedent instead of your opinion. Present your legal argument the way I did in my previous post. Have you read the Supreme court decision Virginia vs Loving and compared the legal argument to Roe?And do you know how it set precedence for Obergefell v. Hodges?

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I saw a tweet, which got 100s or 1000s of likes, that said the same thing. Hell Biden said something like, "What will be taken away next?" Slippery slope arguments are a logical fallacy.

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sweet summer child

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