MovieChat Forums > CarolTheDabbler > Replies
CarolTheDabbler's Replies
<blockquote>[Phyllis] had a very funny Freudian slip when she said that the four of them should double date, "Me and Paul and you and Lars".</blockquote>
Are you sure that was a slip? Seems like even when Phyllis says something superficially complimentary about Lars, there's a criticism tucked away in it somewhere.
We watched "Chuckles Bites the Dust" last night, and they were pretty explicit about it being the same man playing the clown for 30 years. They didn't mention his last name though, just that his first name was George. But Betty may very well have been sitting in the front row at the funeral. We mostly see just one half of the seats, where the WJM crew and a few other people are sitting. But we do catch an occasional glimpse of one young woman sitting across an aisle from them, at the front corner of the other section. So I'm guessing that the widow, children, et al were sitting in that half.
As for why Betty's presence wasn't acknowledged, her romance with Ted was apparently pretty short-lived (we never see her or even hear her mentioned again), and presumably ended badly. Ted would of course blame Betty for the break-up, so he wouldn't acknowledge her presence, and if anyone else recognized her, they would have been very hesitant to mention it, what with Ted (and more importantly Georgette) being right there. So I'd say we're perfectly free to assume that Betty was at the funeral, and may in fact have chatted with Mary afterwards.
<blockquote>I wonder if anyone working on the show noticed this.</blockquote>
I can't imagine that it was accidental. My best guess is that, what with Mary, the main character, being surrounded by men at work, they wanted to make any other characters female -- thus Rhoda, Phyllis, Sue Ann, Georgette, and <i>everybody's</i> daughters. (Oops, I forgot to mention that Phyllis's only child is a daughter.)
Brooks having a daughter might have been an influence, but there being nine known daughters and only two (adopted) sons makes me think it was a fully conscious decision by the main staff members.
<blockquote>... his original portrayer may have used Chuckles and his successors just kept the name for consistency.</blockquote>
True. The name might not even have been the first actor's idea, just what the producer wanted to call the character.
<blockquote>I was an adult when I learned that Ronald McDonald had been played by different men and I never noticed!</blockquote>
Same thing with Clarabell on Howdy Doody. The original actor was Bob Keeshan (later Captain Kangaroo). I don't recall noticing when they replaced him, but apparently they got a LOT of indignant letters!
<blockquote>I can't recall the actresses who played the daughters. But I remember thinking at the time that they were not very good actresses.</blockquote>
Maybe, maybe not. I remember thinking Martin Landau wasn't much of an actor, back when all I'd seen him in was Mission: Impossible. But when I saw him in something else, I realized that the problem was the way his M:I character was written -- namely, with no soul.
Thank you for that info! I do recall the "about nothing" idea, but wasn't aware of the rest.
I enjoy shows that have at least one character I can relate to (which Seinfeld did not, with the possible exception of Kramer), and that are about something. (With the latter being one thing I valued about Star Trek, both the original series and Next Gen -- Gene Roddenberry insisted that each episode be about something, i.e., make a point.)
<blockquote>I always thought it was odd that Betty Bowerchuck wasn't at her father's funeral, "Chuckles Bites the Dust".</blockquote>
I don't think Chuckles was ever played by the same (real-life) actor twice, so quite possibly the in-universe character was played by a succession of in-universe actors -- under the assumption that the kids couldn't tell the difference under all that makeup. I don't believe that the name Bowerchuck was ever mentioned again after "Ted Over Heels." So it seem entirely possible that Mr. Bowerchuck was not the man whose funeral we saw.
<blockquote>Interesting also, in the TV reunion movie with Mary and Rhoda, both women had daughters. Incidentally two of the most boring characters I ever saw! They just about ruined the movie for me. Hard to believe that Mary and Rhoda could have such dull daughters.</blockquote>
Agreed! But you and I were fans of the original shows, and the TV movie reunion needed to appeal to a larger audience as well. Maybe the daughters were more interesting to younger viewers who found Mary and Rhoda dull and boring? (Or at least somebody hoped they would be.)
Addendum: In "Ted Over Heels," we learn that Chuckles the Clown has a daughter.
Note however, that Chuckles was played by at least three different in-universe actors (some of whom we see, while others are merely mentioned). Only one of them was known to have a child, the aforementioned daughter, Betty Bowerchuck, who dates Ted for a while. But for all we know, Betty has seventeen brothers.
That is (if you'll pardon the expression) conceivable. However Lou's daughters were already adults by the time Mary applied for a job at WJM. Murray's daughters are younger, so one or more of them might have been born after Mary started working there -- though you'd think we would have seen Murray handing out cigars or something. Ted's daughter would be a definite possibility, though.
On second thought, I'm starting to revert to my "real house" opinion. There seem to be only a few shots of the "revised" house, including one night shot with a lighted lamp in Mary's window. They vary it by starting at different points in the footage, zooming at different speeds, etc., but just from watching the episodes, it kinda looks like the same basic film to me.
If it was a model, they'd be getting creative with different footage, wouldn't they?
I'm a bit surprised that there isn't more online talk about the switch to a somewhat different house. It was used throughout seasons 4 and 5, up till Mary moves to an apartment building in Season 6, but most people don't seem to have noticed the switch, and keep quoting the original address. I guess they did a good job finding a near lookalike -- even though the difference is obvious once you know about it.
Season 7 (with even fewer references and puns):
7.01 "Mary Midwife" - descriptive
7.02 "Mary the Writer" - descriptive
7.03 "Sue Ann's Sister" - descriptive
7.04 "What's Wrong With Swimming" - presumably a quote from the episode
7.05 "Ted's Change of Heart" - both figuratively and also a bit literally
7.06 "One Producer Too Many" - descriptive
7.07 "My Son, the Genius" - descriptive
7.08 "Mary Gets a Lawyer" - descriptive
7.09 "Lou Proposes" - ... descriptive
7.10 "Murray Can't Lose" - presumably a quote from the episode
7.11 "Mary's Insomnia" - descriptive
7.12 "Ted's Temptation" - descriptive
7.13 "Look at Us, We're Walking" - as in "walking out"
7.14 "The Critic" - descriptive
7.15 "Lou's Army Reunion" - descriptive
7.16 "The Ted and Georgette Show" - descriptive
7.17 "Sue Ann Gets the Ax" - descriptive
7.18 "Hail the Conquering Gordy" - take on <i>Hail the Conquering Hero</i>, a 1944 satirical film, title in turn borrowed from a 1747 chorus by Handel
7.19 "Mary and the Sexagenarian" - descriptive
7.20 "Murray Ghosts for Ted" - as in "ghost writer"
7.21 "Mary's Three Husbands" - descriptive of a fantasy scene
7.22 "Mary's Big Party" - descriptive
7.23 "Lou Dates Mary" - descriptive
7.24 "The Last Show" - descriptive (of the plot *and* of the show's schedule)
Season 6 (far fewer references and puns this time):
6.01 "Edit Gets Married" - descriptive
6.02 "Mary Moves Out" - descriptive
6.03 "Mary's Father" - semi-descriptive (he's a father as in priest)
6.04 "Murray in Love" - descriptive
6.05 "Ted's Moment of Glory" - descriptive
6.06 "Mary's Aunt" - dare I say descriptive?
6.07 "Chuckles Bites the Dust" - where "bites the dust" is a slang term for "dies"
6.08 "Mary's Delinquent" - descriptive (with "Mary's" being possessive rather than short for "Mary is")
6.09 "Ted's Wedding" - descriptive
6.10 "Lou Douses an Old Flame" - in the romantic sense
6.11 "Mary Richards Falls in Love" - descriptive
6.12 "Ted's Tax Refund" - descriptive
6.13 "The Happy Homemaker Takes Lou Home" - descriptive
6.14 "One Boyfriend Too Many" - descriptive
6.15 "What Do You Want to Do When You Produce" - perhaps a take on "what do you want to be when you grow up"?
6.16 "Not With My Wife, I Don't" - take on "not with my [whatever], you don't"
6.17 "The Seminar" - descriptive
6.18 "Once I Had a Secret Love" - first line of Doris Day's 1953 big hit song "Secret Love"
6.19 "Menage-a-Lou" - see episode #5.08
6.20 "Murray Takes a Stand" - descriptive
6.21 "Mary's Aunt Returns" - descriptive
6.22 "A Reliable Source" - common phrase used by news media
6.23 "Sue Ann Falls in Love" - descriptive
6.24 "Ted and the Kid" - descriptive
Thanks, DesertDingo!
... and now that I think of it, that does make the MTM Show somewhat like Seinfeld, because three of the continuing characters (Ted, Phyllis, and Sue Ann) are very self-centered, albeit in a variety of ways. Mary is the nicest of the others, with Murray and Rhoda close behind. Lou is a bit prickly, but still a pretty decent guy. So it's roughly half and half, but because the nicer characters have more screen time, the show averages out much nicer than Seinfeld.
However I think you folks were mostly talking about the style of humor, and I can't really speak to that, having watched only a few Seinfeld episodes. (Every year or so, somebody would say how much better the show had gotten, and I'd watch another episode or two and conclude that it still wasn't my cuppa.)
Season 5:
5.01 "Will Mary Richards Go to Jail?" - descriptive
5.02 "Not Just Another Pretty Face" - a common saying, as is "just another pretty face"
5.03 "You Sometimes Hurt the One You Hate" - take on classic song "You Always Hurt the One You Love"
5.04 "Lou and That Woman" - descriptive
5.05 "The Outsider" - descriptive
5.06 "I Love a Piano" - title of a pop song by Irving Berlin
5.07 "A New Sue Ann" - descriptive
5.08 "Menage-a-Phyllis" - take on "<i>ménage à trois</i>"
5.09 "Not a Christmas Story" - clearly NOT a take on the 1983 movie <i>A Christmas Story</i>, but possibly a take on the unrelated 1972 animated TV movie of the same name
5.10 "What Are Friends For?" - a common saying
5.11 "A Boy's Best Friend" - from the old saying "a boy's best friend is his mother"
5.12 "A Son for Murray" - descriptive
5.13 "Neighbors" - descriptive
5.14 "A Girl Like Mary" - descriptive
5.15 "An Affair to Forget" - take on classic 1957 film <i>An Affair to Remember</i>
5.16 "Mary Richards: Producer" - descriptive
5.17 "The System" - descriptive
5.18 "Phyllis Whips Inflation" - take on 1974 political slogan "Whip Inflation Now"
5.19 "The Shame of the Cities" - title of seminal 1904 book about political corruption
5.20 "Marriage Minneapolis Style" - take on 1969-74 sitcom <i>Love American Style</i>
5.21 "You Try to Be a Nice Guy" - common rueful saying
5.22 "You Can't Lose 'em All" - take on saying "You can't win 'em all"
5.23 "Ted Baxter's Famous Broadcasters' School" - take on the Famous Artists School, Famous Photographers School, and Famous Writers School, which filed for bankruptcy in 1972
5.24 "Anyone Who Hates Kids and Dogs" - a person's attitude toward kids and dogs is commonly seen as an indication of their character
Season 4:
4.01 "The Lars Affair" - see episode 2.17 (except that this time there probably *is* an affair)
4.02 "Angels in the Snow" - from the childhood snowy-day activity described by Mary
4.03 "Rhoda's Sister Gets Married" - which she apparently does (and is never heard of again)
4.04 "The Lou and Edie Story" - see episode 3.18
4.05 "Hi There, Sports Fans" - common intro by sportscasters
4.06 "Father's Day" - not actually the holiday in this case
4.07 "Son of 'But Seriously, Folks'" - see episode 3.08
4.08 "Lou's First Date" - ... after his separation from Edie
4.09 "Love Blooms at Hemples" - descriptive, possibly influenced by Jack Benny's long-time theme music, "Love in Bloom"
4.10 "The Dinner Party" - descriptive
4.11 "Just Friends" - common phrase, used in the episode
4.12 "We Want Baxter" - common sort of chant at political rallies
4.13 "I Gave at the Office" - common excuse given to anyone going house-to-house collecting for charity
4.14 "Almost a Nun's Story" - take on 1959 movie <i>The Nun's Story</i>
4.15 "Happy Birthday, Lou!" - traditional birthday greeting
4.16 "WJM Tries Harder" - take on 1960s-70s Avis car rental ads ("we're only number two, so we have to try harder").
4.17 "Cottage for Sale" - reference to Phyllis's attempt to sell Lou's house (but why "cottage"?)
4.18 "The Co-Producers" - take on 1967 Mel Brooks movie <i>The Producers</i>
4.19 "Best of Enemies" - take on common saying "best of friends"
4.20 "Better Late... That's a Pun... Than Never" - self-explaining title based on old saying "better late than never"
4.21 "Ted Baxter Meets Walter Cronkite" - and so he does!
4.22 "Lou's Second Date" - see episode 4.08
4.23 "Two Wrongs Don't Make a Writer" - pun on old saying "two wrongs don't make a right"
4.24 "I Was a Single for WJM" - take on the 1951 movie <i>I Was a Communist for the FBI</i>
Yay! You must live in/near the UK -- our copy is on its way across the Atlantic, expected to arrive in a week or two. But that's fine -- gives us longer to enjoy the anticipation!
I can sympathize with people needing a bathroom ASAP -- but doesn't the festival provide porta-potties?
I've been paying more attention to the revised house, and am starting to think it may be a model after all, because they show Mary's lamp inside the window in night shots. I suppose it could be a matte shot, but that would be tricky on the zoom shots that they tend to use. So unless they took Mary's lamp to somebody's real house at night and asked them to put it in the upstairs window for them to film -- well, making a model might actually be simpler!
We've just started Season 5, and Mary is still in her original apartment, so I assume they'll continue using the revised house/model for a while longer. even though Rhoda has disappeared from the show without a trace. I see there's an upcoming episode where Lou moves into her turret, though.
Thanks for the quote, pjpurple. I'll update that entry.
Regarding the "hunch" connection, jonathan, Mary clearly does have a <i>very strong</i> hunch that Markham's character is interested in far more than "just a lunch." So yeah, maybe a touch of that as well.
I think you're right -- they don't actually set out to be mean, they're simply too self-absorbed to realize that a) other people might be offended or even that b) other people matter. Sadly, I know a few real-life people who come pretty close to being like that (and also know of at least one other that I don't know personally).
I believe such people are termed anti-social (or sociopathic). They apparently can't help it, because they have no sense of empathy.
Season 3:
3.01 "The Good-Time News" - describes the episode
3.02 "What Is Mary Richards Really Like?" - common type of interview question
3.03 "Who's in Charge Here?" - common saying
3.04 "Enter Rhoda's Parents" - stage direction from the script?
3.05 "It's Whether You Win or Lose" - take on "It's not whether you win or lose, it's how you play the game"
3.06 "Rhoda the Beautiful" - describes the episode, maybe worded like "America the Beautiful"
3.07 "Just Around the Corner" - common descriptive
3.08 "But Seriously, Folks" - common phrase in stand-up comedy routines
3.09 "Farmer Ted and the News" - describes the episode
3.10 "Have I Found a Guy for You" - often said to a friend
3.11 "You've Got a Friend" - title of 1971 pop song
3.12 "It Was Fascination, I Know" - first line of classic song "Fascination" (played in restaurant scene)
3.13 "Operation: Lou" - common wording for military operations, referring to Lou's actual operation
3.14 "Rhoda Morgenstern: Minneapolis to New York" - descriptive but oddly worded, may be a take on something
3.15 "The Courtship of Mary's Father's Daughter" - take on 1963 movie / 1969-72 series <i>The Courtship of Eddie's Father</i>
3.16 "Lou's Place" - typical sort of name for neighborhood bar
3.17 "My Brother's Keeper" - quote from Cain in the Bible, "Am I my brother's keeper?"
3.18 "The Georgette Story" - common style of movie title (e.g., 1954 movie <i>The Glenn Miller Story</i>)
3.19 "Romeo and Mary" - take on Shakespeare's <i>Romeo and Juliet</i>
3.20 "What Do You Do When the Boss Says 'I Love You'" - question that Lou must deal with!
3.21 "Murray Faces Life" - take on radio soap opera <i>Portia Faces Life</i>
3.22 "Remembrance of Things Past" - classic novel by Proust
3.23 "Put on a Happy Face" - title of song (sung by Dick Van Dyke) in 1961-62 Broadway musical <i>Bye Bye Birdie</i>
3.24 "Mary Richards and the Incredible Plant Lady" - "X and the Incredible Y" is a common style of title