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Beagle200 (18)
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There are many documented cases of police officers following “suspected” homosexual couples home from bars or public places. There is an alarming number of cases of police officers watching homosexual people engage in intimacy from the “safety” of their houses. In one instance, the officer used a drill to watch as a couple engaged in homosexual activity.
Because of the stigma and hatred against LGBT people at the time, these blatant invasions of privacy often were not even acknowledged in court.
But yes, I understand your point. Of course, these blatant violations of privacy became less prevalent as time progressed. That definitely makes sense that cases of rape and pedophilia were commonly convicted, like you said. The fact that these laws were still being used with the intention to target and criminalize LGBT people, however, is upsetting and inexcusable. Even in cases where lesbians and gay men were assumed and deemed “criminals” in that they must be committing illegal acts under the sodomy laws, this was used to deny LGBT people job offerings, child custody rights, etc. Given the blatant bigotry in society against lesbians and gay men during this time, I think it’s safe to say this is not surprising.
Thank you for your insights! 😊
And I quote:
“Lawrence only directly invalidates sodomy laws in four states that have laws that only apply to gay people: Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri, and Kansas.”
Lawrence referring to the case of Lawrence v. Texas, where these laws were deemed unconstitutional.
Yes yes you are right!
The fact is that due to the nature of these sodomy laws, gay men and lesbians were disproportionately targeted. As you said yourself, living a “gay or lesbian lifestyle with a partner then it is presumed that you are committing sodomy since you couldn't be having any type of sexual relationship that wasn't considered sodomy in that relationship,” that in itself is an example of how sodomy laws were deliberately used to target the “deviant” homosexuals.
While homosexuality was directly illegal in 4 states until 2003, homosexual activity was still illegal in all of the other states because of the nature of homosexual acts. Thus, this was used to directly discriminate against and target LGBT individuals.
In some states, for example, police officers took the sodomy laws so extremely that gay man and gay women were targeted and abused simply for holding hands with each other in public.
I think you mistook my wording. When I said “sodomy laws that applied to homosexuals but not to heterosexuals,” I was stating that there *were* certain sodomy laws that applied only to homosexual couples. I was not denying that, in most states, the laws couldn’t be applied to heterosexual couple (they sometimes were).
But the truth is that, especially toward the 70s, 80s, and 90s, sodomy laws, while most in theory *could* be used against heterosexuals, they were primarily being used to discriminate against gay men and gay women. Sodomy laws that were originally created against persons regardless of their sexuality were now being used deliberately against homosexual people, and it was even stated by LGBT defendants in several court cases that a heterosexual couple would not have been convicted in the same manner, even if such a conviction was technically legal. And four states did deliberately amend their sodomy laws so that they only applied to same-sex couples.
Sorry for any confusion. :)
Thank you for agreeing! It is always nice seeing a fellow person who has also lived through these less-than-accepting times and therefore understands. Likewise, it is often only fellow LGBT members who can fully understand the hardships and stigma that still target LGBT people today.
“Homophobia” is generally the term that people use regarding any anti-gay behavior nowadays. It is actually defined as: “dislike of or prejudice against homosexual people.”
Which is exactly what this “bigotry” is.
People who hate LGBT people are not usually actually “afraid” of them. Yes, they get uncomfortable at seeing a same-sex couple kiss, but their bigotry comes in from disgust, from seeing it as dirty or sinful, from being angry that a woman or man is not fulfilling their “duty” to act as a true woman / man, or simply not being able to understand.
Yes, there has been recognization that the actual term “homophobia” is not exactly accurate to describe the hatred toward gay men and lesbians (as well as other LGBT members), but it is still the generic term that is used nowadays to describe anti-gay sentiments and behavior.
In 4 states, same sex relationships were illegal while the same activities did not criminalize heterosexual relationships.
Here is an insightful source on more recent cases:
https://www.aclu.org/other/examples-sodomy-laws-used-discriminate-against-lesbian-and-gay-people
https://www.aclu.org/other/why-sodomy-laws-matter
That being said, the mindset of “two women = gross” is nothing out of the ordinary and is even expected homophobia. ESPECIALLY for the 80s.
Many times, I have been called a “disgusting dyke” just for holding hands with another girl in public. I have been told by straight men that they could “turn me straight,” and me and my girlfriend were sexually assaulted for being “disgusting dykes.”
My point is, lesbians are not and never have been deemed more acceptable by society. Even the homophobes who fetishize us in porn (which is homophobia in itself) think we are “disgusting dykes” when we aren’t in porn, and treat us as such.
That being said, the mindset of “two women = gross” is nothing out of the ordinary and is even expected homophobia. ESPECIALLY for the 80s.
Many times, I have been called a “disgusting dyke” just for holding hands with another girl in public. I have been told by straight men that they could “turn me straight,” and me and my girlfriend were sexually assaulted for being “disgusting dykes.”
My point is, lesbians are not and never have been deemed more acceptable by society. Even the homophobes who fetishize us in porn (which is homophobia in itself) think we are “disgusting dykes” when we aren’t in porn, and treat us as such.
That being said, the mindset of “two women = gross” is nothing out of the ordinary and is even expected homophobia. ESPECIALLY for the 80s.
Many times, I have been called a “disgusting dyke” just for holding hands with another girl in public. I have been told by straight men that they could “turn me straight,” and me and my girlfriend were sexually assaulted for being “disgusting dykes.”
My point is, lesbians are not and never have been deemed more acceptable by society. Even the homophobes who fetishize us in porn (which is homophobia in itself) think we are “disgusting dykes” when we aren’t in porn, and treat us as such.
~ Meanwhile, many straight women actually love and even fetishize gay men while hating lesbians because they are “gross.” At the end of the day, all homophobes will harass and gag at the sight of any same-sex couple, male or female, even if it’s a homophobic man who watches lesbian porn when nobody is watching. (Because in fake porn it’s somehow “different).
Finally, that brings me to today. Lesbians are not anymore accepted than gay men, and they face the SAME homophobia as gay men. They also just get a lot more homophobia in the form of sexual harassment and sexual abuse. They still get called “disgusting” by homophobes, still get slurs shouted at them for holding hands with another girl, still have hate crimes being committed against them, still get the same stigma and judgment from society as gay men. They also just get homophobia in the form of sexual abuse for being female— straight men dehumanizing them as sex objects in porn but hating them in real life and anywhere else BUT porn, telling lesbians that they could “turn them straight” and that they can “fix” them. This is not being “more accepted” in any way, shape, or form.
Cis white gay men have been the face of the LGBT movement since forever, and therefore have gotten the most recognition and acceptance in society today. Unfortunately, the mere word “lesbian” is still deeply.
The “two dudes gross, two girls hot” mind see you are talking about at the time was perhaps the mindset of immature high school boys— it was NOT the mindset of society. Homosexuality was degenerate, “disgusting,” and completely foreign, and homophobes gagged at the sight of a same-sex couple, male OR female, behaving in a romantic or sexual way together. Considering that lesbians are still constantly deemed “gross,” “sick,” and “disgusting” by homophones today, and that lesbians scenes are regularly censored in certain airline / stations in America today, really doesn’t make any of this hard to see or understand.
With that being said, immature boys in high school during this time would still label a lesbian as “gross” and a “freak”— being gay wasn’t the norm then. It isn’t the norm TODAY and lesbians still get a TON of harassment and bullying and are made fun of in schools for being gay today... it was even worse back in the day. Lesbians had boys sexually harassing and abusing them for their sexuality, no doubt, but they had just as many people (often the SAME people) calling them “gayyy,” “Gross,” and a “disgusting queer.” Trust me on this. I’m talking from experience on this. Being gay was equally unaccepted and scorned back then, whether you were a boy or a girl. The same can still be said today, even if society is progressing in its acceptance of LGBT people.
~ lesbian rape statistics are so disproportionately high. Meanwhile, many straight women actually love and even fetishize gay men while hating lesbians because they are “gross.” At the end of the day, all homophobes will harass and gag at the sight of any same-sex couple, male or female, even if it’s a homophobic man who watches lesbian porn when nobody is watching. (Because in fake porn it’s somehow “different).
Finally, that brings me to today. Lesbians are not anymore accepted than gay men, and they face the SAME homophobia as gay men. They also just get a lot more homophobia in the form of sexual harassment and sexual abuse. They still get called “disgusting” by homophobes, still get slurs shouted at them for holding hands with another girl, still have hate crimes being committed against them, still get the same stigma and judgment from society as gay men. They also just get homophobia in the form of sexual abuse for being female— straight men dehumanizing them as sex objects in porn but hating them in real life and anywhere else BUT porn, telling lesbians that they could “turn them straight” and that they can “fix” them. This is not being “more accepted” in any way, shape, or form.
Cis white gay men have been the face of the LGBT movement since forever, and therefore have gotten the most recognition and acceptance in society today. Unfortunately, the mere word “lesbian” is still deeply stigmatized, taboo, and seen as “dirty” by society today, including to much of the LGBT movement and to lesbians themselves, and this is largely due to the homophobia against lesbians being ignored and unattended to (because male issues have always come first). Sadly, the prevalent homophobia toward lesbians has been ignored and even tolerated in much of society until recently, where people are finally becoming to give gay women and their abuse the same attention gay men have always gotten.
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