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Thespear's Replies
"The Emperor twiddles his thumbs while Rome burns"...and by Rome I mean the WORLD. This virus will ravage large numbers of humans and decimate millions, entire countries IF someone who THINKS does not bring THE WORLD together in a global strategic response. Why? the ONLY true defense lies in a vaccine which is a year away. IN the meantime a GLOBAL STRATEGY has to be employed to globally shelter in place or THE VIRUS WILL CONTINUE TO SPREAD in waves. Now I hear most of you Trumpists say "pull up the draw bridge" It won't work and he fact that Trumpist Governors have yet to order shelter in place in their states doesn't leave me with much hope for them seeing the GLOBAL need. Best or worse case scenario ( depending on your POV) The US withdraws from the world; China takes its place and helps more vulnerable countries and is FOREVER remembered as the country that cares about them. China is not waiting, they are already on the mend ramping up production factories for their underemployed millions. Guess what they are producing? PPE's and other things desperate countries will need. What is Trump doing? getting into rows with Germany and Canada about PPEs!
To kspkap:
"Full of rage against the U.S., are we? "
Righteous indignation against a 'small group' of people owning and oppressing the rest is not hating the U.S. It is SANITY! Defending the choke hold corporate interests currently have on the US population and our govt is INSANITY.
The problem is NOT with the small business man; nor it is with anyone trying to make money. But when behemoths like Amazon and Walmart control so much of the factors of production and people's lives, you have to admit out system resembles less of a true capitalist system and more of medieval feudalism. No single person or group should have this much power. Why not? Go read Plato's Republic because in it, his Philosopher King belonged to the ruling class or 1% for analogy. However this 1% was NOT allowed to have family and own things BECAUSE way back in his times Plato recognized that GOOD GOVERNANCE could not exist if the ruler(s) had private personal interests.
THAT's the biggest problem with Capitalism today. The rulers have their personal interests and when it runs contrary to the national interests they become CORRUPT!!
As far as I am concerned, this COVID-19 has laid bare the fraud that Capitalism is. The socialist, liberty less countries have faired MUCH better during this crisis. The democratic capitalists countries, where creativity is supposed to flourish, where the competitive spirit is supposed to benefit some and they those benefits would trickle down, THEY are the countries currently drowning in disease. Our country has the additional problem of a lying imbecile in charge.
China with what 1.6 or 1.7 billion people were able to arrest the spread of this disease so that 4 months later, Wuhan a city comparable to NY, is now slowly getting back to business. How many of YOU see NY back in business by July? Our death toll has exceeded theirs. We are hoping for masks, sanitizers, ventilators, regular medicines and many other things from, guess where.....China.
This virus has EXPOSED the hypocrisy of the America. When it comes down to it it turns out, every body is fine with SOCIALISM!!!! In true naked Capitalism govt shouldn't intervene and the strong should overcome the weak...right Darwinism...right? The weak die off and everyone is better off because only the STRONG are left ..right? The great bastions of US industry and Capitalism are the first at the govt trough begging for FREE MONEY. Licking their chops to fire their workers; buy new robots; and pocket the change. If the American people are too STUPID or RACIST or HATEFUL or SELFISH that they can not see that caring for the very weakest of us is the FOUNDATION of good govt; that having EVERYONE have access to healthcare; that maintaining good relations with other countries goes BEYOND merely pointing guns and threatening them; EVEN IN THE AGE OF A WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC, then there is NO HOPE!!!!!!!!
Watch the BBC folks: China and Cuba and many other countries are sending teams of doctors to Italy to help them in their time of trouble. Germany is taking care of French Corona virus patients because they CAN. Our President is busy calling racist names and sending love letters to Kim!!!
Trump supporters have the gall to talk about Joe Biden? Their hero is the most misogynistic, racist, thin skinned, lying, idiotic,hateful, vindictive, self absorbed, ignorant, crooked, ignorant person to occupy the WH EVER!!!
"Most Americans are happy with their private healthcare plans."
You are either very healthy and have NOT experienced any mildly serious health issue or you are on some govt program that takes care of 100% of your health bills. After heart surgery one of my associates told me that" if the illness doesn't kill you, the bills will" and he showed me a $250,000 bill he got from ONE of his "doctors' after his heart by pass.
If the fire department and the Police aren't privatized, why does HEALTH have to be subjected to the PROFIT motive?
After being allowed to lie and cheat his way thru EVERYTHING, of course when faced with his first REAL test Trump can only respond by trying to LIE and CHEAT himself out of a virus. Unfortunately, it is obvious how inadequate the man is to govern. Anyone TRULY believe this man is giving a thought to US? He won't admit the urgency of the situation, how can he protect us? Anyone think his lying is going to have disastrous consequences for the people? Remember the doctored NOA hurricane map? THIS TIME doctoring the FACTS could have PANDEMIC consequences.
Thanks Trumptards!
"90% of Americans Have Health Insurance"
And yet 90% of THOSE people cannot financially withstand ANY serious illness with the plans they have! It's not surprising that only those who have the dreaded ' plans like the VA; Medicare and other govt plans are able to absorb the ridiculous costs of medical treatment today. Health Care (not insurance) health care is too important to make it ONLY a function of the market and open to the profit motive. That would be as ridiculous and INEFFICIENT as saying the fire brigade; police and defense forces should be privatized so that people can have "choice" and not fit into ONE big govt plan!
I will remind you of your words in 12 month's time after a President Sanders is inaugurated. After he repeals ALL Trump executive actions and starts going after corporations, guns and 'right to life' demonstrators. If Dems keep the house of congress, you guys have just made it impossible for him to be checked! If Dems are able to dislodge McConnell and Co in the senate....watch out!
Dershowitz tried to argue that a) When dual motives in any Presidential act occur the presence of a possible benign motive SHOULD always absolve that President of the consequences of the NEGATIVE motive attached to that act. That principle of jurisprudence is NOT present in ANY court in the Western world. The fact that the robber intended ALL his robbery gains to help the needy wasn't acceptable EVEN in Robin Hood's day. While Robin Hood's crimes may have been morally laudable, they were still CRIMES!!!!!
That is what he said and what he is being criticized for. The implications of allowing a dual motive to absolve ANY wrongdoing is so clear I don't feel I need to explain here. Indeed, in the case of the President the case should be even more apparent because he has sworn PRIMARILY "to faithfully uphold the laws of the state". This is why in Plato's Republic, the Philosopher King is the ruler: a person with no money; no family; no material things etc because ONLY then can he fully devote his DECISIONS to the well being of the state. This is the foundation of Western Governmental thinking.
What Dershowitz suggests runs so contrary to common sense it is laughable. This is NOT about listening to FOX or CNN. Ask yourself this: a the guy kills your wife in a robbery attempt should go free because he wanted to give the money to a church or hospital or the state?
Yes, but on YOUR OWN terms. Biden's people know his strengths, they should use them.
If I were advising Biden, I would advise him to respond to each smear but on his own terms, not directly so they go tit for tat. So when Trump calls him "Creepy Joe" don't respond to it directly but perhaps later call Trump is the 'Maniacal Liar' or the 'Lyingest President' or 'Pinnochio' whose "hands get smaller with every lie he tells" Wouldn't be hard to get under his skin.
That's a concern but trust Trump, we will have scandals all the way til Nov! No doubt! Cheating is the ONLY way Trump knows to win. I am not only referring to the GOP politicians btw. I am talking the regular joe who is willing to look the other way because they like "aspects " of Trump, THEY too have signed a Faustian deal.
The People are the ONLY guarantee against any kind of tyranny. but by 'the people' I mean an enlightened populace. We are so far from that it's not even funny.
"Where ignorance is bliss, to be wise tis folly"
It's not the INSANITY of Dershowitz's legal theory about QPQ that is the REAL shocker, it is the relative silence that accompanied it in the chamber of the "world's greatest deliberative body" When reasonable people don't run him out of town for making such an idiotic, undemocratic statement, I can foresee a dictator in America's future
Well then why not let him testify?
"You said you never heard somebody say he wasn't guilty. I just did."
How about someone who is under oath say it? Someone who could be jailed for perjury say it? Or best yet someone who could be impeached for lying, say it? Crickets!
"In this impeachment, there is no bipartisan support. Something Pelosi said they had to have to initiate proceedings. She lied."
What are you twelve?!?!. The Reps ALL suddenly lose their marbles; decide to collectively lick T's arse and abandon common sense and that is Pelosi's fault!?!? God, you got to have better reasoning than THAT! As an intelligent human you should be ashamed to make such a circular dishonest argument....but I guess you are a Rep so that explains things!
I think you guys have persuaded yourselves that the American people are fools. That they will believe the rubbish arguments you are making here or that they will swallow their pride and accept to be led by a criminal because their 401k looks good. I have more faith in the populace as a whole, but we'll see.
When Clinton was impeached, some Dem. voted to impeach and I believe remove him. He wasn't removed but the Dems did not vote lockstep to condone his misdeeds.
"Trump is not guilty. Happy now?"
Yeah, that's not a defense, but I guess it's all you have!
Sandman27 contd,
The House rules you hate Adam Schiff so much for were created by John Boehner. Let's be clear NO Dem. House or Senate is going to LOOK at impeaching a Pres. Warren or Sanders NO MATTER WHAT THEY DO!!! So watch out for your guns and liberties and taxes and religious freedom!
"Look fat, here's the deal. Pelosi said they wouldn't begin impeachment hearings unless their was bipartisan support."
Why the 'Ad Hominem'? I thought we were discussing? Use arguments if you have any! Nice, Pelosi was imagining a time when Republicans were REASONABLE. Don't worry she( no Dem.) will make that mistake again.
"If you believe what you say,...boo hoo hoo to you!ððððĪŠ"
Do you believe the GOP will survive as a nativists, mainly straight white male Evangelical party that Trump has made it? Before you answer remember that Trump ONLY won the electoral college after massive Russian assistance from ads and Bots; a last minute devastating revelations from the FBI about his opponent; and massive apathy on the left. Do you think that is going to happen again? ( I know Trump is trying to get the foreign interference thing going) Do you think all the REST of America (the non evangelical; the LGBTQ community; the immigrant and minority community; the decent community; those concerned about gun violence, ) Do you really think they are going to sit out 2020?
I know there are some in these groups who still support Trump, (secretly and not so secretly).I know some of them personally.But I also know MOST of these people are NOT going to sit this one out...NO WAY! Now that we have seen what this man is about, I can assure you the gap in the popular vote will be more than 5% this time around.
The leaders of your party understand this. That is why they are ramping up schemes to intimidate voters; gerrymander districts; cut down on voting days; disenfranchise ex-felons anything and EVERYTHING to tilt the scales to the GOP. Trump WILL LOSE in 2020. of that I am 100% confident!
Sandman27,
You know what I have NEVER heard from ANY Trump defender over this Impeachment? No the President did not do this and his is not guilty. That's simply because you can't say that and he is GUILTY!
"What exactly is the propaganda you're speaking of? Violating their principals and their tenets? What principals and tenets, exactly?"
How about the Russian originated "theory" that Ukraine interfered with 2016? How about the Republican notions of 'individual responsibility', 'family values', 'moral values', 'fiscal responsibility'? Have you forgotten these already in your rush to the alter to the vulgarian?
"So because you don't like what the Mueller report had to say," I loved the Mueller Report because I READ it! Did you? What I hated was AG Barr's corruption of his conclusion. According to Mueller DJT's campaign solicited and accepted Russian aid on numerous occasions and the ONLY reason he did not find . The ONLY reason he did not charge crimes is because he could according to the Dept of Justice and to suggest anything would put Trump at a disadvantage.
"Did Schiff speak to the whistleblower?" Look, Schiff and the Whistle Blower, are NOT primary witnesses to the wrongdoing alleged. They played a role in bringing it to our knowledge. If they did something wrong, prosecute them! Besides, the Whistle blower's account has been substantiated. I hope the Rep at the trial come up with better arguments.
"Will become a king? Puh-leeze! Overdramatic much?"
When people decide to ignore FACTS other people DO NOT forget. Remember the O.J. trial and how upset people were at jury nullification (look it up) Just because the GOP can nullify the facts this time around doesn't mean they should. If the President's does NOT present a thorough defense of his actions they should vote the TRUTH! If they don't, do you imagine that any future Dem. President will be convicted and removed by a Democrat held House or Senate? contd.
The Republican Party is the one acting as communists now: spouting Russian propaganda; violating their principals and their tenets to follow ONE criminal. The allegory in Animal Farm is applicable not just to the Russian Revolution but to any political force that is based on people blindly following ONE man based on LIES!!!
Trump was elected after he asked for and got Russian help in 2016 in the form of thousands of FB ads and Bots putting out disinformation and colluding openly with those who had emails stolen from the DNC (Wikileaks- the Russians) Imo, he is an illegitimate president and he WILL NOT win re-election, not now we are aware...people won't stay home this time.
After his AG corrupted the conclusion of the Mueller Report Trump immediately went to what HE KNEW helped him win Foreign Interference. This time he got caught. The Impeachment hearings so far have establish plenty of direct and indirect testimony to his guilt. The president and Mulvaney both admitted to the principle act and motivation on live tv. The Republicans have NOT tried to mount ANY factual defense and the president has obstructed the search for the truth. Circumstantial evidence is used everyday in this land to convict people of crimes. Just because you did not see it snow overnight, snow on the ground in the morning is pretty good circumstantial evidence that IT DID SNOW overnight!
If the Republicans uniformly fail to vote to acquit in the Senate, any president going forward with either the House or the Senate will become a King. If that is so GOP watch out! If there is a president Warren or Sanders one day, and that day will come, watch out for your guns, taxes, your religion etc.
The arc of history is bending in the Democrats favor. Trump is a corrupt blip in a trend that can't be stopped. The more the GOP fights the worse they will make their future!