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JesGuy's Replies
There's a lot of truth in that.
I fall into the 40+ crowd. Born the year Star Wars came out. Saw Return of the Jedi in Theaters. Was SOOO stoked for the Special Editions to released in theaters! Played Star Wars RPGs with friends. Waited in line for 4 hours to see the midnight show of The Phantom Menace. Annnnd...
I had an epiphany. George Lucas wasn't this grand sage of sci-fi brilliance I'd elevated since I was a child. He's just a dude. Like me. Makes movies. Fun movies. Not perfect. But doesn't have to be.
Shrug. I guess that was the adult in me slaying my inner youngling.
I'm tired of coddling dumbsh..s though. When somebody does a "review" of The Last Jedi and say it's "Objectively" bad---Saying you CAN'T like the movie cause it's an objectively bad film...
...I'm calling you out on your entitled sense of stupid.
Thanks ADBruno!
I'd argue---What choices did Rian Johnson have?
The Force Awakens was---for all intents and purposes here---a soft remake of A New Hope.
Rian Johnson could've taken the next entry and did it EXACTLY like Empire Strikes Back. Luke trains Rey. Her friends go to a floating city and get betrayed by one of Poe's old war buddies. Perhaps Finn gets frozen in carbonite. Rey cuts training short. She leaves to rescue her friends. She has a showdown with Kylo Ren. He reveals to her that she's his long lost sister (or some shit like that). And so on... And so on... And so on...
Do you see the problem here?
Rian Johnson took the expected script and flipped it on its head. NOW---
---The next guy (J.J. Abrams as it turns out) is forced to come up with something COMPLETELY NEW AND ORGINAL!
DAH-DAHH-DAHHHHH!!!
I swear I'm scratching my head at this. Why is this a bad thing again???
Oh...no, no, no...didn't mean to imply that at all.
Please, by all means---Nitpick the shite outta Rey's character!
But once someone uses the term "Mary-Sue"....Dude...
That's not criticism. And those who use it---know it.
Maybe I'm remembering it wrong, or conflating your post with another. If so I apologize.
The reason I was hesitant to post at all is that this board is filled with these crazy notions that if you genuinely loved this movie---flaws and all---YOU'RE A DISNEY SHILL. Or a SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR. Or a FEMINIST.
Crickets.
What...the...eff...are these people talking about?! That's the stupidest crap basket I've ever heard. I ain't got time for that nonsense. And I imagine most other people who enjoyed the movie feel the same.
So these boards and YouTube are filled with vitriol towards anyone who liked The Last Jedi. I don't blame ANYBODY for not chiming in their two-cents.
And when people are posting topics like "Why does Rey HAVE to be Female?"---And laughably taking no other answer that doesn't mirror their own. Petitions for a Episode 8 to be stricken from the Canon. Wtf?? It'd be hilarious if it wasn't so rampant.
I'm all for discussing movies. I LOVE to nit-pick! But discuss the movie.
I hate to break it to some folks, but there happens to be two sexes on this planet. There was a 50/50 shot that a Star Wars trilogy would one day feature a Female protagonist. This "Mary-Sue" crap is obvious. We all know what it's really about. Your not fooling anybody guys.
There's no imaginary CONSPIRACY by Rian Johnson to supplant anyone's childhood. I mean, really??
So the crux of your issue has more to do with the too-quick execution of making The Force Awakens. Okay. I get it. In some ways I agree with you. But not enough to suck my enjoyment from the ones they did make.
I liked The Force Awakens for pretty much the same reasons everyone did. Yeah, yeah...it was pretty much a shot-for-shot nostalgic callback to A New Hope. And I generally agree with the consensus and give it a pass. I just don't care. As said by others, "It really brings that old classic Star Wars feeling." And that just warmed my nostalgic heart.
Now I didn't spend two years pouring through YouTube videos for theories, but I would on occasion think about what-ifs. After a while I noticed most of my thoughts seemed to follow the EXACT SAME FORMULA as the original trilogy. Luke trains Rey like Yoda trained him. Snoke manipulates Kylo Ren while actually wanting Rey to supplant him.
What about Finn's backstory as a child-slave-Stormtrooper-trainee---thought THAT might be a cool avenue to explore. Did he have friends? What about that trooper from Awakens who wiped the blood across his forehead. Did Finn know him?
This was the kind of stuff I was curious about after watching Force Awakens. I didn't care about Rey's parents---Especially since they SAID Rey's parents were nobodies IN THE FORCE AWAKENS.
Maz Kanata says to her, "Dear child. I see your eyes. You already know the truth. Whomever you're waiting for on Jakku... they're never coming back." Did everyone get selective amnesia??
Went on a tangent. (You didn't say anything about Rey's parentage.)
Back to your points. So Disney should be held to a higher standard than George Lucas? You act like the original trilogy had this grandiose master plan! It didn't. Leia makes out with her brother?? Come on.
Movies are being made faster, and more are released every year. That's just the evolution of the business. Competition. Be happy you're getting Star Wars movies, period.
Says who? You?
If you're gonna go with the Drug Addict analogy---Drug Addicts FREQUENTLY back slide.
I feel like a broken record here, but I'll say it again---Do ya want Luke Skywalker in the sequels, or dontcha???
If your answer's No---I get it. Nothing can live up to the originals. All that stuff.
If your answer's Yes---What kind of Luke Skywalker do you really want to see? What would've been satisfying to you? A flawless God-Jedi who knocks all the At-At's down like dominoes with a wave of his hand??? Why have new movies at all? Luke can just "think" all conflicts away like Dr. Manhattan. Shrug. Whoa. I'm bowled over with thrilling CGI spectacle.
Again, these new movies AIN'T Luke's. It was always belonged to Rey, Kylo Ren, Finn, and Poe. Han, Luke, and Leia were ALWAYS gonna be there in a supporting capacity. If you thought otherwise, you were really fooling yourself.
Hey sunshine.
Agreed, as there is nothing wrong if you didn't. It's all good. Whatever. There are definitely parts I didn't like, but on the whole---the movie was great!
I was hesitant to throw my hat in this ring. I read someone's post the other day asking the rather ridiculous question, "Where are all the defenders of this movie? It's got such a high rotten tomatoes rating with critics! I don't get it!"---or something to that affect.
By the way---Thanks for presenting your question/observations it in a non-vitriolic way.
It's sadly stupid that I have to THANK someone for being polite.
Based on what I READ...Rian Johnson at first didn't want flashbacks at all. I don't know how that information would've have been conveyed otherwise...?? But anyway...he then decided to film the flashback a certain way. It was a creative decision that possibly put more emphasis on the bedside-lightsaber event than intended.
The Flashback---First from Luke's perspective, we see an edited glimpse of what happened. Second we see the scene play out from Ben's point of view, and Luke looks freaky-scary. Thirdly we see it from Luke's POV, but as it ACTUALLY occurred.
When I saw it, I just assumed that there had been a lead-up to this encounter that we didn't see. I don't think Luke simply walked by Ben's room one night---was suddenly hit with a vision, and in that split second cruised through the guy's door and switched on his lightsaber. Above I said it could be argued that more needed to be shown of the lead-up to Luke standing there in the first place.
Unless there were script rewrites or deleted scenes...I dunno. In this age of Stand-Alone Prequels---Maybe Disney and Mark Hamill will sign on to tell THAT story! LoL
I asked for no dumbsh...
Gee Mitzi...
Faced with the weight of these two options---Either, billions dead across the galaxy, versus a quick fix of killing just one guy---seems less whimsical tingle, and more HOLY SHIT BILLIONS DEAD!! PANIC!! LIGHTSABER!! RARR!!
And riiight. In that specific circumstance, Luke will consult with his sister and bff about, "Hey guuuys! Sooo, what's your all's take on me ending your kid? How's Chewie?"
...Not an open bakery.
Where in the movie did Luke Skywalker KILL HIS NEPHEW???
This.
Again...if Luke had NO MORE DEMONS TO FACE---Why do you want him in these movies???
Maybe you didn't! I dunno. But you knew he'd be in it from the end of Force Awakens, sooo.
Did you really think a grizzled aging Luke Skywalker---who HID AWAY FROM THE GALAXY after something really bad happened---would be Demon-free??? Why would you expect him to be anything less???
The dude knows he's regarded as this Mythical Legend all over the galaxy, even in the lowliest of places like Jakku. How humiliating it must be knowing that HE is responsible for nudging his nephew ALL the way over to the dark side. So he ran away.
He didn't run away for no reason!
Now there's an argument to be made about the questionable choices in the Force Awakens---like why does Luke run away and hide---but leave map pieces behind like a scavenger hunt. But that's a fundamental flaw set up in the first film.
Also, as I read some of these posts, I notice people seem to forget or overlook one huge fact. Luke DIDN'T kill his nephew.
Again, an argument could be made that we needed to SEE a little more of the build-up that LED to that event. But as I still have a working brain between my ears, I can work it out.
We see it from Kylo's POV---CrAzY-wIlD-eYeD LuKe!! Then we see it from Luke's POV---Sad and Fearful and Tempted to do something Bad. But doesn't. Cause even though he can see what Ben Solo will become---and Luke is terrified of the past repeating itself---Even in a moment of weakness, Luke knows HE'S the good guy.
And sadly turns Kylo into the monster Luke desperately wanted to prevent.
CONFLICT!! If you're going to get the amazing Mark Hamill to don the Jedi robes again, you'd better give him something to work with.
You say "it is possible to tell that character's transition - and it was pretty ballsy of Rian to try - but in the end they didn't come close to convincingly telling that story."
So how should it have been told? If you DIDN'T want that story, then what conflict should Luke have confronted??
Thanks. The vitriol is crazy.
That's the only thing I can think too. Deleted scenes. But still. Knowing what I know about the actual history---doesn't make much sense.