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PussyMonster's Replies
Criticism is literally defined as the analysis and judgment of the merits and faults of a literary or artistic work. Its why Roger Ebert had preached for decades that a film should be judged based on its genre and what it was trying to accomplish. If you are not doing that then you’re just being a pundit rather than a critic.
Do you really believe it failed at what it was trying to accomplish? I’ve read all the reviews on this movie on Rotten Tomatoes and that element is rarely talked about because most reviews are from pundits rather than critics. A lot of them thought that Jean was being manipulated by force rather than being unstable due to trauma. That is something that only happened in the cartoon version but many people believe that is canon and the same rules apply to the film. It reminds me of how critics didn’t notice that Starship Troopers was a satire when it came out. This is what I meant about people judging it with the wrong criteria.
As for it being a “retread” of X3: That was based on a different story arc. The Last Stand was an adaptation of the Gifted storyline with elements of the Dark Phoenix arc. While Dark Phoenix was based on Jean’s origin story and the Hellfire Club arc. See, the Dark Phoenix Saga is called a “saga” because it is a long narrative comprised of three story arcs (the Shi’ar arc, Hellfire Club arc, and the Dark Phoenix arc). This is what I meant by people comparing it to the wrong story arc.
Question: do you judge movies based on the criteria of their genre and whether or not they succeeded at what they are trying to accomplish (which is what legitimate film criticism is)? Or do you simply judge based purely on your personal preferences?
With that said, did you genuinely believe that Dark Phoenix failed at telling a story about struggling with emotional trauma and overcoming it? Because that it was trying to accomplish.
I ask because most people don’t judge it by that criteria and compare it to the wrong story arc.
That was the plan. The sequel was cancelled.
Read my reply to him.
A lot of the film’s criticism are pretty invalid though. Many judged it with the wrong criteria (to some degree) and people compared it to the wrong story arc.
So it’s underrated in the sense that it was not judged fairly.
Different genres.
The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix are based on two different story arcs. I’m a comic readers. Dark Phoenix was based on the Hellfire Club arc while X3 was based on the Gifted storyline with elements of the Dark Phoenix arc.
You mind as well say that Deadpool is a remake of X-Men Origins: Wolverine since they both cover Wade’s origin story.
It wasn’t an illusion. You might be thinking of something else. It was similar to how Bucky “died” in The First Avengers.
Yeah, she was. The alien made Jean think that Xavier was trying to kill her like Beast and Magneto for the death of Mystique. She almost killed him. Jean didn’t even know about her true intentions.
That wasn’t their first confrontation. This was:
https://imgur.com/ww9QNBs
You’re right. The Last Stand was much worse. It was not only unfaithful to the original storyline but there was also some pretty sexist politics involved from Fox.
The Last Stand was written by Simon Kinberg, Zak Penn, and Matthew Vaughn.
You might want to do some research because film didn’t even use their script beyond basic concepts. In their script it was Jean that destroyed the Golden Gate Bridge for example. Ever heard the phrase “that wasn’t in the script”? Filmmaking isn’t simply about following a script.
Plus Chris Claremont (writer of the comic) said it was a vast improvement, which is a fact. Did you ever read the original storyline?
I meant that she was original meant to be Emma Frost but right before filming started the studio mandated that the Skrulls be the villains instead.
Are you really saying that Jean doesn’t accidentally get a teammate killed? That the aliens don’t try to manipulate her and turn her against her allies but helps them in the end?
The set-up for the arc happens in Uncanny X-Men #114. Mastermind wouldn’t have been able to manipulate Jean if she didn’t think her teammates were dead. Technically the whole saga started in Uncanny X-Men #100.
She didn’t die, she just gave into the power.
She looks like Emma Frost because she was her in earlier version of the script. That is the reason why she wanted Jean to kill Magneto and Charles. The change happened at the last minute because Fox wanted to use the Skrulls before Marvel but realized that they needed their permission, so they were changed to the D’Bari.
Also, the Hellfire Club in First Class wanted to wipe out humanity and have their kind rule the world. Which is the exact same goal as the aliens in the movie.
The Hellfire Club arc started when Jean fought Magneto and accidentally “killed“ the X-Men. That traumatized Jean and the Hellfire Club took advantage of her fragile mind, manipulating her into thinking the X-Men were her enemies as the Black Queen. Jean comes to her senses and helps the X-Men defeat the bad guys. However, Jean’s repressed dark side consumes her and She becomes the Dark Phoenix, then flies off into space to destroy a planet.
This is pretty much happened in the movie. Jean accidentally kills an X-Men (Mystique) and gets traumatized (even more). The Emma Frost-like alien takes advantage of this and manipulates Jean into thinking the X-Men are her enemies. But Jean comes to her senses and helps the X-Men but is consumed by her dark side that Charles repressed and becomes the Phoenix. Then she flies off into space.
Now remember that vision of the future from X-Men: Apocalypse? Of a world being destroyed by fire? That would have happened in the sequel, which is now cancelled. So she did become the Dark Phoenix at the very end.
The Hellfire Club were the villains in an earlier version of the script, dude. They were just replaced with those aliens due to studio mandate. They look like them, have a mansion like them, and have the same goal as them as in the comic and First Class.
It follows the same plot beats as the Hellfire Club arc. Even Chris Claremont (writer of the original storyline) will tell you this. How can you not notice the parallels?
Do you understand the storyline beyond a surface level? Do you understand what the themes and characterization of Jean in the original? Seriously, I want to know.
Thus was based on Hellfire Club arc, not the whole saga.
In both films Wade got kidnapped by Weapon X, experimented on and given powers to be used as a weapon. Those elements are from the source...
So you thought Deadpool didn’t work? I mean they had already did Wade’s origin story in X-Men Origins: Wolverine.
The X-Men are not a crossover like the Avengers.
Yes, you do. Since you replied.