MovieChat Forums > The Tomorrow War (2021) Discussion > Fixing the stupid plot

Fixing the stupid plot

posted 3 years ago by alienzen (1931)
53 replies | jump to latest

So instead of them just being to busy to build more time bridges, they can only build one because having two at the same time would could the fabric of spacetime collapse in on itself. The time bridge is built using a new element that was deposited on the earth's surface when the spaceship crashed on earth(believed to have allowed the ship to travel faster than the speed of light). The amount of this element is limited and is required to power to time bridge.
The queen aliens are actually indestructible, which is why it is actually necessary to develop an agent that can kill them. This explains why soldiers need to be sent to the future to buy people in the future time to develop a toxin, which has to be tested on one of the queen in the future (trying to take one back to the present would be too risky as it could unless the alien plague earlier than it had otherwise happens is it escaped). It is clearly established that there is only one timeline, and changes in the present do affect the future.

He sees his daughter die in the future as before, however she is unable to get a sample of the toxin to him.
It turns out that the reason that Dan left his family was because he had seen his daughter die in the future and knew that it was inevitable, which led him into a downward spiral, he could no longer bear looking at her every day knowing how she was going to die, eventually leading him to take his own life.

However it is later revealed that 6 months before he was supposed to die, Dan discovered message that his daughter encoded, with the instructions how to make the toxin, as well as a small sample of the element required to build a time bridge. He finds a scientist friend to help him replicate the toxin and build a bomb that will disperse it throughout the atmosphere. He is also able to build a time bridge to the future with the small amount of the element that will only be able to stay open for a few seconds. At the moment he is believed to have died, he travels to the future a moment after he had previously left and detonates the bomb, saving his daughter. No more of the element required to time travel remains, so he stays in the future with his daughter.

The end.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

terrible, terrible, sounds like a boring ending to a long saga - such a convoluted mess to fix something that didn't even really need fixing.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I've seen what makes you cheer.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

They never had any resources to build more bridges - so why make it more convulated by saying it need extra super elements - so these elements are in the same place they took on the first white spikes an lost.

so the alien queen isn't indestructible but she can still die from a toxin.

so what changes would you see happen in the future by people coming to the past?

on the one hand dan see his daughter die in the future and commit suicide in the present, but the next scene he is back 6 months previously and goes the future to save his daughter before the previous future - even though there only 1 time machine - so how many timelines did you want in the movie.

So why make it unnecessary convoluted plot to get to something that doesn't even sound that good in writing.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

"They never had any resources to build more bridges - so why make it more convulated by saying it need extra super elements - so these elements are in the same place they took on the first white spikes an lost."

because saying they didn't have any resources to build more bridges is dumb. They didn't even try. If they can build one time bridge while fighting the aliens, they can definitely build two, or at least try to.

"so the alien queen isn't indestructible but she can still die from a toxin."

indestructible to conventional weapons, obviously.

"so what changes would you see happen in the future by people coming to the past?"

yeah, this is a difficult one, but I couldn't solve it in the space of the 20 minutes it took me to write this plot without changing the entire premise of the film. Sorry.

"on the one hand dan see his daughter die in the future and commit suicide in the present, but the next scene he is back 6 months previously and goes the future to save his daughter before the previous future - even though there only 1 time machine - so how many timelines did you want in the movie."

he never comitted suicide, people just assumed he had died because he vanished. His daughter never dies, she appears to be doomed when he travels back to the past. He travels to the future to save her by arriving one second after the point in time he left. So there is only 1 timeline.

"So why make it unnecessary convoluted plot to get to something that doesn't even sound that good in writing."

This if from the person who enjoyed The Tomorrow war ridiculously convoluted plot that didn't make logical or even narrative sense. Introduce a toxin that is not necessary in the final act. Ridiculous.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

because saying they didn't have any resources to build more bridges is dumb. They didn't even try. If they can build one time bridge while fighting the aliens, they can definitely build two, or at least try to.

Hitler tried to make so many things before the final demise of the nazi regime and guess what happened when he run out of space, people & resources? take a guess.

indestructible to conventional weapons, obviously.

so pretty much like the current movie.

yeah, this is a difficult one, but I couldn't solve it in the space of the 20 minutes it took me to write this plot without changing the entire premise of the film. Sorry.

take your time & come up with something good, because you haven't as yet.

he never comitted suicide, people just assumed he had died because he vanished. His daughter never dies, she appears to be doomed when he travels back to the past. He travels to the future to save her by arriving one second after the point in time he left. So there is only 1 timeline.

so he just goes rogue without telling anyone and then a lazy plot writing of hero comes to save the day last minute - how simple.

This if from the person who enjoyed The Tomorrow war ridiculously convoluted plot that didn't make logical or even narrative sense. Introduce a toxin that is not necessary in the final act. Ridiculous.

well your writing isn't better at all - the toxin did kill some of the white spikes and killed the queen - so it did its job.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

No, he killed it by throwing it off a cliff. He could also have just blown it's head off with a shotgun. Would have been a lot easier than shoving a vial of toxin in its mouth after stabbing both of its eyes out with a knife and a hammer and slitting its throat, and still not killing it.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

so either choice A or B but either way it died? there's choice C i was almost expecting Charlie actually to come save the day.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

The whole premise of the film was to send people to the future to buy time to develop a toxin that was less useful than a simple shotgun. This is QUITE a big problem for the plot, don't you think?

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

not really, whole premise of aliens was to kill the aliens and instead they came back with half dead Hicks, Bishop with only Newt and Ripley surviving - sometimes a movie does what is best to make it a decent story.

if they created the toxin and blew up the plane and killed the queen with a shotgun then it would been a waste.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

No, the premise of Aliens were that they were duped into going to the planet to rescue colonists, but the evil corporation wanted to take an alien back inside a human so they could study it and make biological weapons to sell to the military. And Ripley does destroy the aliens. So what are you talking about?

It would be like the Avengers collecting all of the infinity stones in Endgame, and then never actually using them in the final act.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

sorry, bad example.

but they used the toxin, so that is an issue you keep coming up with but it's not true.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

Ok, it would be like Thanos collecting all of the infinity stones to wipe out half of all life in the universe, then at the end he uses the gauntlet to kill half a dozen people and kills the rest by sending out an army of drones to wipe them out by shooting them in the head.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

that's what he did with most worlds anyway before the infinity stones, so it would just been a longer action movie.

also the infinity stones are paperweights in the loki series.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

There is no guarantee that he would have succeeded. The Infinity Stones were definitely a BETTER way to wipe out half of all life. The toxin was less effective than a shotgun.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

There was no guarantee he would got all the infinity stones either and if he did whether it would have worked or he could have gotten killed by using them as well - he took a risk.

the toxin was more effect then a gun but the side-effects made it less useful as the other spikes woke up.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

Doctor Strange saw millions of possible futures in all of which Thanos won. So it probably wasn't much of a risk. In fact the statistics say it was almost inevitable.

The toxin wasn't more effective than a gun. He stuck the queen alien twice with it, and it still didn't die. A shotgun shot to the head would have killed it more effectively.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

but not how he won.

it was more effective as the gun shot had to be in the belly and neck.

the few they used the toxin on died pretty quickly more efefctive then chris pratt shooting the spikes in the future, as a final act they had to make the queen tougher and intelligent to kill that's any action/sci-fi/horror movie logic otherwise they could have killed her in the explosion with the rest of them.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

The toxin has to hit the queen straight in the face to kill her. He stuck it in her arm and she bit her arm off. Even the face shot didn't seem to be fatal.In any case, it was falling off the cliff that killed her.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

again:

they had to make the queen tougher and intelligent to kill that's any action/sci-fi/horror movie logic otherwise they could have killed her in the explosion with the rest of them.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

they could have made her tougher to kill by making the toxin the only effective thing that can kill her. It's not that hard. Just make her regenerate when you attack her with normal weapons, and the toxin stops her regenerating. Wow! that was hard. I wrote that idea in mid sentence.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

but then if they couldn't get the toxin to her without blinding her with a knife and climbing hammer then they would have been dead, is that right?

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

They could have temporarily blinded her. Or blasted her with rockets to distract her. The usual stuff.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

or in that case just do what they did in the movie?

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

but without making the entire previous plot redundant, but rather actually relevant. Also the tension would be increased, because their only chance to kill her would have been the toxin, of which they possibly only had one remaining vial, which almost falls off the cliff, then he grabs it at the last moment, shoving it in her mouth before she falls off the cliff. WOW! that was an exciting finale! What a great film!

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

you mean make it into a generic ending.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I'm not making it generic. The ending is generic. I am changing it as little as possible to make it not completely brain-dead dumb and incompetent. I's not my job to make it not generic.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

so from one generic ending to another.

also if they only relied on the toxin then either they would have died trying to give it her or it would have been too easy, because they couldn't have fought with her for a long time with weapons that didn't cause her big issues like it did currently.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I just explained, she can be hurt, but regenerates.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

so not hurt too much as she would be more tougher with regeneration then she was currently and only one chance with one vial to kill her.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

which would increase the tension. and also not make the entire movie pointless. Win Win.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

the win less likely and just a cheap plot writing trick to use a toxin to win, which was used in the original in a decent way anyway.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I didn't write the toxin plot. Why are you blaming things on me that are beyond my control? I am just fixing the ending so it is less crap.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

Your not fixing it but changing one ending to another one that is actually more bad writing and all hinges one toxin vial.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

Or like Frodo getting to Mount Doom, he tries to thrown the ring into the the lava, but it blocked by a horde of orcs, then Gandalf turns up and destroys the One Ring with his staff.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

but if he threw it in the lava and its half broken and then the rest is destroyed by gandalf then why not.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

The point is, if Gandalf can destroy it with his staff, what was the point of going all the way to Mount Doom?

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

i was just following your logic with the example.

nobody said the aliens in TTW were indestructible to weaponry just more difficult to kill - so some dying by toxic and others luckily dying with a bomb as a last resort made sense.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

OK, I can see how the toxin could have been relevant IN THE FUTURE when the planet was overrun and they could have made it airborne or something (Like they did in V) to wipe out all of the aliens on the planet. But they didn't use it in the future. And it was of no use in the past, because blowing up the alien ship was more effective. So in the end it played no role in the movie. The fact that they killed a couple of aliens with the toxin is irrelevant. They could have equally stabbed them in the head.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

originally the toxin would have been used against the russian horde but they found the origins and it was less useful but still did it's job.

just because 'you' consider it irrelevant doesn't mean its a flaw.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

It's a humungous gaping narrative flaw. Like I said, if Frodo got to Mount Doom and Gandalf turned up and destroyed it with his staff, that story would have sucked. It's a gigantic flaw, obviously.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

but we know that the ring could only been destroyed in mount doom, so if frodo never chucked it in there the ring would have survived and everything would have gone all evil.

its not a flaw, it written to make it more of last act.

think if they used the toxin and the spikes died without making a noise and waking the others and they all died one after the other including the queen - end of film.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

As if that was the only way the film could have ended. Did you know it is actually possible to write an exciting action packed finale without making in into a dumb stabby stabby which renders the entire plot of your movie redundant? Well it is.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

well i gave you a chance to write one and you came with a terrible idea.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I disagree. My idea was great, and plot hole free.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

a convoluted mess is what it is.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

I loved it.

reply

[–] 123 (543) 3 years ago

good for you.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7265) 3 years ago

Everything you suggested makes the movie worse. Not to mention you are "fixing" nonexistent problems.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

It is not possible to make the movie worse.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7265) 3 years ago

I think it's great as is, and don't think any of the things you identify as problems are problems at all. You seem to want it to be an entirely different movie.

reply

[–] alienzen (1931) 3 years ago

You should change your username. It implies someone with a sophisticated taste in movies.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7265) 3 years ago

Your dislike of a film in no way means the film is unsophisticated, or not a good film.

reply

[–] DrRed (538) 3 years ago

Nice rewrite. It fixes the dumb ending we got

reply