I am getting tired of seeing Wanda bring such misery to everyone around her, then at the end of the story they try to make her some kind of sympathetic victim.. She is an evil "witch" with way too much power and the other superheroes needs to put her crazy ass down. In fact they should have done that after she took over that town.. She is neither a hero nor a victim.
shareWell there's a simple solution to this, stop watching these fucking MCU movies and supporting them... people like you keep complaining about these woke movies but I'm willing to bet that they keep shoveling out money that they can't really afford to spend on movies with the way things are in the world now even knowing that most movies these days are woke fest propaganda made to promote Hollywood's liberal agenda.
I for one don't go running out to watch every new movie that comes out, I have much more reserved options about weather or not a movie is worth my money, that is I have never and will never watch and support any MCU movie because they in particular have a knack for being insufferable, girl power shit fest.
"people like you keep complaining about these woke movies"
"they have a knack for being insufferable, girl power shit fest"
^this is kinda funny
OP wasn't complaining about "woke" shit. His complaint is pretty well spelled out. I think you are replying to your internal monologue.
Let's face it. If you had her power I bet you'd be much (put as many as needed here) much worse.
I think the only questionable thing Wanda really did, or did not do, was to bring Vision back, or to reunite with Vision. It was not even on the agenda.
It seems Vision was just a means to an end.
So you don't think that her slaughtering of the heroes in another universe was that bad? Or her terrorizing and attempted murder of America Chavez?? Not to mention her making puppets of about 20K people in that town on WandaVision; all just because she was going through a bit of emotional stress. Wanda was an out of control psychopath who needed to be put down.. I think that even she began to realize that at the end.
shareSo you don't think that her slaughtering of the heroes in another universe was that bad?
Or her terrorizing and attempted murder of America Chavez?
Not to mention her making puppets of about 20K people in that town on WandaVision
all just because she was going through a bit of emotional stress.
I think that even she began to realize that at the end.
Wow, you sound like a psycho.
shareI guess that is what you call people who have a different opinion from yours.
shareIt’s not at all. It’s what I call someone who justifies murder because “they got in the way”.
shareIf scarlet witch went there with the intention to kill them, yeah, that would be murder.
But no, so I think they are killed in a dispute.
Remember scarlet witch was dream walking. Those heroes, other than Richards, fully intended to kill an innocent woman to stop the scarlet witch. What do you call that?
I am sure given chance and full information of scarlet witch's power, they would have killed the girl Chavez themselves to stop the scarlet witch, like what they did to their Dr. Strange, because the girl's power is clearly a danger to many worlds.
Still murder, dude. It wasn’t premeditated but it was still murder. And she absolutely went to Kamar Taj with the intent to kill people, including a teenage girl who never did anything to her.
shareSo what do you call what they did to their Dr. Strange, and to the innocent woman scarlet witch possessed? And what Mordo tried to do to the Dr. Strange from earth 616?
shareWe’re not talking about whether or not they were justifies. We’re talking about Wanda trying to kill people which, once again, including an innocent teenage girl and all the people trying to defend her.
shareSo you condemn some murders, but OK with the others.
With that kind of moral flexibility, you really should get into politics.
Now who should we call a psychopath?
When did I ever condone murder? The Illumanati killed an evil version of Strange and Mordo is obviously a super villain so of course he tried to kill our Strange.
Also, who dir America Chavez murder? What about Strange? Wong? Christine Palmer? All the wizards at Kamar Taj? The alternate reality version of Wanda? Those are all people Wanda killed or attempted to kill.
I see it now, you guys are really just a bunch of simpletons, should be sticking to Disney channels, everything has to be black & white.
To me, other than Richards and Wong none in this movie is innocent. To think of it just Wong, Richards did participate the cover up & execution of their Dr. Strange.
They are really not much better than each other, or scarlet witch.
To think of it, you are not even smart enough to fully comprehend a Disney show.
Okay so why does America Chavez deserve to be killed then? It’s weird that you keep avoiding that question.
As for the Strange that the Illumanati killed, did you forget the part where it was said he went evil and started killing people?
I put it up there, but it was an edit, you might not have seen it, so here it is again.
The girl Chavez, to save herself, exposed children to a powerful witch, who was capable of anything. The portal she opened could also suck the children into an unknown world, like what happened to her mothers. I am sure the girl would do even worse things if it helped her to survive. She could have just run, you see, scarlet witch should not be able to follow her, but I think she did what she did because she was tired of running.share
As for the Strange that the Illumanati killed, did you forget the part where it was said he went evil and started killing people?
So ultimately, your entire argument is that murder is okay but self-defense isn’t. Got it.
shareThat is too lame to even warrant a response. Ta ta.
shareJust to be clear .... you think that Wanda is not to be held accountable for her murders because of all the other murder'y stuff everyone else is/isn't doing?
Sorry. I am a bit stupid. I just want clarity.
Not even that. Apparently, America Chavez deserves death because she stopped Wanda from killing her. This guy is out to lunch.
shareI am not saying any of that. What I was saying is these guys hate Wanda's guts, but none saying a word about anyone else. But I noticed they were all horrible people.
I noticed that when Dr. Strange letting the pizza ball guy hitting himself, when Chavez knew the guy would keep doing that for 3 weeks, she laughed.
Tell me what do you think would have happened to the guy after he kept hitting himself for 3 weeks? Looks to me he would have died without food and water, that is if he did not die from trauma. Maybe he would survive if someone helped him, put him in restraints and force feeding him. But neither of them cared about his fate after stealing from him, because of what? Because the guy thought they were both thieves, and wanted some justice for his hero Dr. Strange?
Right there I knew they were both assholes. Scarlet witch killed for the love of her children, those 2 were willing to kill because the guy tried to throw some mustard on them due to a misunderstanding. In fact the guy was the victim, they basically robbed him and killed him. But he was a nobody, a commoner without powers, he doesn't matter, so who cares.
Remember Chavez opened the portal in the end to give scarlet witch what she wanted. Whatever happened to the children and their mother was not Chavez's concern. Whatever happened, scarlet witch would leave her alone, that was the point.
The movie manipulated people's emotions so they did not even notice the horrific acts of our "heroes".
So what I was saying is that comparing to our "heroes", scarlet witch is really not that bad, if your guys are going to condemn her, at least condemn the others as well. Otherwise it is really just the stupidity of emotionally manipulated simpletons.
I don't think the director was stupid or lacking self awareness when creating those scenes, in fact I think he was having a bit of fun, and laughing at how stupid and how easily manipulated your guys all are right now.
On a lesser note. Remember Chavez said in most worlds foods are free, but she also said "don't assume anything".
What does that say? I think she did not care whether she was stealing or not, and she did not return the food she stole.
As long as we are told she is one of the good guys, so what if she steals, we are told she was good, so stealing must be OK.
So what if Dr. Strange tortured and killed few average people when he was annoyed, he was a hero, so killing few insignificant people must be OK as well.
Just think about how easily you are spoon feed ideas and opinions, not questioning even the most absurd narratives.
I agree with many of your points. Dr Strange and Chavez behaved terrible in spots. This kind of skewed grasp of justification is the current zeitgeist.
However, Wanda's actions and murders were far worse and numerous. Her intentions nor insanity don't change the body count and fact that she willfully and directly murdered people. So for as rotten and irresponsible as so many other people are in this, she is several degrees worse.
I don't like the way they write Strange in half of his scenes in the MCU. But half the time, they stop trying to make him Iron Man or "cool" and manage to present a decent representation of the Doc.
I think you might have better discussions in here if you left out things like "Otherwise it is really just the stupidity of emotionally manipulated simpletons." No need to be so hostile. People that don't see things your way aren't necessarily idiots. Normally, when a poster in here starts lambasting people, calling them "idiots," I stop paying any attention to them. Funny thing about perspective.
I usually only start to be rude when people start to be rude first, or in your case trying to be cute and use the language like "I am a bit stupid. I just want clarity", that kind of sarcasm also does not sit well with me.
I think killing one or killing many is not that different, the reason behind of killing is worth considering. Like Scarlet Witch killed for the love of her children, that is not evil. In the court of law there could even be insanity plea.
Dr. Strange killed because he lost his patience, like killing a bug, looks to me he thought he was a higher being. The members of Illuminati I think are pretty much the same. There is no excuse for that.
But Dr. Strange did good before, like saving the planet! Remember Scarlet Witch did that too, even at her personal cost, she killed her lover to protect the world, I'd argue her sacrifice was greater. In fact I think that was what broke her.
Which do you really think is worse on a moral level?
I think all the selfish & evil arguments are about Dr. Strange is still willing the protect the world, whether it is because of sense of duty or "That is my turf, if I let your guys destroy it, where am I going to live?"
Whatever it is, that is good for us. But Scarlet Witch no longer has that on her agenda, and killing off the heroes WE depend on when they get in her way, so we call her evil.
Now who is selfish.
So I don't think we are on a higher moral ground to call her selfish.
Got it. I'll let you generalize me is a simpleton and take special care not to be "cute" toward you because it doesn't settle well with you.
I should have known better than to engage after reading this: "I think the only questionable thing Wanda really did, or did not do, was to bring Vision back, or to reunite with Vision." You are one of those "The good intentions matter more than the deed" types. Thanks for the MTBE in my water table.
I guess you are one of those "the ends justify the means" kind of guy.
shareNope. No evidence of that in our discourse.
shareDidn't you just say the end results matter more than intentions?
shareDo you understand what the phrase "The ends justify the means" means? It is in line with your forgiveness of Wanda.
What am I doing? The spade of reason broke ITT long before I joined.
Have a good day. Prosper and enjoy the treats of life.
You basically said the ends justified everything. "the ends justify the means" is just a more popular phrase, it is included in what you were saying.
But I can see you want to get away from it as quickly as possible. Did it betray your deepest and darkest thoughts?
Anyway, that is what I do here, truth is not always pleasant. Sorry, if it offended you.
A lot of people have stopped defending her, but there is still a segment of the fanbase that does it, and it's beyond frustrating. It makes my blood boil.
What she did to the people is indefensible. Then there was the fact she chose the wrong side in the Civil War, and brainwashed Hulk. And that's not even discussing her actions in this movie.
It's great most fans recognize this, but it's troubling how the other heroes don't hold her accountable AT ALL.
Hell, lots of heroes been doing whatever they want in this recent phase. Time for Civil War 2.
Hell, lots of heroes been doing whatever they want in this recent phase. Time for Civil War 2.
It would be insanely smart if he did, which wouldn't be shocking considering WandaVision played a major part in in Multiverse of Madness (and that was a great decision).
They didn't have any problem condemning Stark and him creation Ultron was an accident. She CHOSE to brainwash Hulk, keep an entire town hostage, and kill a ton of people in Multiverse of Madness. I love that she's a villain, makes sense for the character, but I don't see how it's hard to condemn this person.
"A lot of people have stopped defending her, but there is still a segment of the fanbase that does it,"
Tell me, does movie-Wanda have fans, people who like her? I never liked the character much, even though "Wandavision" was great fun, and wonder if others do. And by that I mean people who like the *character*, not Olson's figure!
But yeah, she was always kind of a dubious person, who was capable of choosing the wrong side or misusing her powers, and now I wonder if Marvel was always planning to have her descend into full-blown villainy. Or nearly full-blown.
Well, that fc31 feller above is trying to defend her. He actually said people "got in her way", LOL.
I had some guy on Facebook (I think it was an IGN article?) excuse her actions in Dr. Strange because "It was the Darkhold".
She was never all that popular, but saw an uptick around Infinity War when she had to kill Vision. Then that was expanded on in Endgame and Wanda Vision. I had a Facebook friend who would go on-and-on about how poor Wanda was grieving. She was not the only woman I saw express that view. There's several articles about it:
https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2021-08-10/wandavision-matt-shakman-jac-schaeffer
https://www.hypable.com/wandavision-wandas-grief/
https://www.anchortherapy.org/blog/wandavision-5-stages-of-grief-nj
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2021/mar/08/wandavision-marvel-disney-women-acceptance-of-grief-is-what-makes-them-truly-super
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2021/03/05/wandavision-finale-series-grief-mourning-covid-america/4590726001/
All but the first of these examples were written by women. It became some kind of war cry for chicks.
I'm with you. Great show - and MOM was an excellent continuation of her character development - but I don't like her.
Thanks for the fandom info. I agree that Wanda's actions in this film were indefensible, and even she finally realized it, and that anyone who defends her actions is a soft-headed nitwit. Grieving doesn't give a person the right to leave others grieving! But I'm okay with the way she acted in this film, it wasn't out of character, before this she was a flawed and unstable character who has no checks and balances to stop her doing horrible things.
And I'm a liberal, and a feminist!
Oh, it was totally within her personality. Really well-thought out. I remember seeing the trailer and being miffed Strange was like, Ah, forget about Westview..." That along with his actions in Spiderman show just how reckless he and some other heroes have been lately. As ExTechOp pointed out above, if that leads to Civil War II.
People are irrational. It's what we do.
At the end of "Wandavision" people on this forum asked why she wasn't imprisoned after hijacking a whole town, either as punishment or to keep her from going on another rampage... and the answer was that no jail on Earth could hold her. And even if such a jail existed, the authorities wouldn't necessarily want to keep her there, because they might need her to save the planet from the next incursion anyway, so they didn't want to be on her bad side. And yeah, under all the humor and craziness of "Wandavision" it did show that she was capable of doing insane and extremely destructive things when unbalanced by grief, so this movie is very much a continuation of the show, and her actions are presented the same way.
Although, I will say that her motivations made a bit more sense in "Wandavision", she wanted her beloved back, and she wanted the life she dreamed of making with him. But in this film, she seems to have forgotten that her beloved existed, and that her parting with him is what caused all this crazy...
I think her power also increased significantly since WandaVision. Agnes taught her the basics of witchcraft in the end.
I think she used to be just a mutant, her ability of projecting and altering reality was more of her accidentally stumbled on magic, or she learned from unsystematic sources.
I think she only started doing more advanced magic after she acquired darkhold.
I think her mutant ability was a good match to witchcraft she learnt, that was why even Agnes was far more knowledged she was no match to Wanda.
I think she's become SO powerful... that they had to write her out of the Marvel Film Universe!
They really don't want someone like her to be the franchise's dominant figure, not in any way.
No prison could hold her....so just let her go. I hated that shit. Infuriating. It's not a real argument. She's too powerful to hold accountable? LOL, what?
The entire premise of Civil War is accountability, but if you're too strong, don't every try?
At that point, she really WAS too powerful to be held accountable! All the Earth authorities could do was politely ask her to stay in prison, or to find another planet to live on, which BTW was what she was trying to do in "DSATMOM".
Really, they made her too powerful to be a good film hero, because a hero has to struggle to overcome obstacles, and the best movies superheroes are those whose powers are limited. Audiences like to see Tony Stark be clever enough to defeat supervillains with no powers of his own (except money), and seeing Wanda blast or mindfuck her way through any obstacle just isn't fun. So they made her a villain, and kissed her goodbye... we think!
Remember she went through Kamar-taj like it was nothing and killed off the entire Illuminati.
But Scarlet witch had no intention to destroy or rule the world, so you are going to provoke her, so she would?
She is a slaver.
shareAll of her attacks on young American were also unnecessary! She could have made friends with Chavez, even staged a scenario where she saves the girl's life, like conjure up some tentacle demons and "save" the girl from them. Then, the kid would feel in Wanda's debt, and give her rides from dimension to dimension whenever they were needed! Wanda could have had her new life in a dimension where her kids were real, with nobody harmed... if she'd taken care to stage her "demon attack" with no innocent bystanders around!
So now the girl is Strange's pupil and will obviously be willing to transport him from dimension to dimension, and she's free to grow and expand her powers and be an even more useful Ally to Strange and the Sorcerers. And Wanda could have done the same thing but didn't, and I don't know whether to call that evil, or stupid.