MovieChat Forums > The Falcon and the Winter Soldier (2021) Discussion > Karli kills innocent people....

Karli kills innocent people....

posted 4 years ago by kuatorises (7467)
26 replies | jump to latest

no reaction.

Walker kills a terrorist? ALL the characters and audience clutch their pearls.

Good episode, but there's a lot about this show that doesn't work. Morgantheau is a TERRORIST. She steals and kills innocent people and all we're talking about is Walker. It's all Bucky and Sam talk about too. Gotta get that shield away from him and that was BEFORE this episode. But Karli? No, we must speak with her. Talk her down. It's illogical. That argument falls flat on it's face.The motives, rationale, and actions of some of the characters simply aren't working. Walker's hate really isn't earned and we're simply excusing Morgantheau. Sam tried to "talk to" her after she committed MURDER, but stands by horrified Walker killed someone: a terrorist.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

Morgenthau has a cause, "These corporations and the beasts who run them, they're the supremacists." and Sam agrees with her "I'm not your enemy. I agree with your fight. I just can't get with the way you're fightin' it.", but she crossed a big red line when she killed innocent people.

The problem with Walker is, he killed the guy wearing the CA suit, which was unexpected. It's not that he was wrong.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

"Morgenthau has a cause"

And? Terrorists have a cause. That's why they are terrorists - they try to impose their beliefs on others via violence.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

Yes, the means are wrong and she is a terrorist, but is her cause right? Sam agrees with her after all.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Her cause is irrelevant. She is violent and a murderer.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

and big corporations do not kill innocent people?

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Why are you talking about big corporations? Morgantheau is the one killing people.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

She has a grudge against corporations, "These corporations and the beasts who run them, they're the supremacists." and Sam agrees obviously. I'm with Sam, she has a point but her means are wrong.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

No corporations have killed anyone in this show. KARLI HAS and all you want to talk about is "tHE EvIL cOrPoRatIonS!" She's the one killing people, ya dingus.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

yeah, yeah, we get it "karli baaad waaah waah".

Don't take these shows too seriously, dude. In case you forgot, it's all fictional.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

No, no, no it's "Walker! And evil American corporations!"

Karli's just trying to help people! She's practically a hero.

[–] msegmx (444) 4 years ago

Finally! Was that so hard?

Edit: FTFY "Walker! And evil corporations!"

[–] Techto (1316) 4 years ago

Her grievance against “corporations” came out of nowhere and seems misplaced. It wasn’t corporations that decided to round up the returnees and put them in camps, was it? Perhaps they are profiting from running or supplying the camps but that’s no crime. Anyway anti-corporate sentiment is a tired cliche.

[–] ExTechOp (2770) 4 years ago

Sam tried to "talk to" her after she committed MURDER, but stands by horrified Walker killed someone: a terrorist.

That's more a reflection of Sam's character as a VA counselor than anything redeeming about Karli

And he's justified in being horrified not that Walker killed someone, but that he did so using Captain America's shield.

Remember, Sam already knows Walker's taken the serum, so he knows it's an unfair fight if Walker has the shield AND the serum.

Attacking a weaker opponent and killing him is bad enough, but to use the shield is pure desecration to Sam. Heck it felt that way to me. I think it's intended to feel that way, which is why the last shot is Walker donning the shield defiantly, bloodstain clearly visible.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

"That's more a reflection of Sam's character as a VA counselor than anything redeeming about Karli"

You sure about that? He kissed her ass. He told her he agreed with her cause. The writers didn't have to have him do that. They went out of their way to make it so Sam agreed with a terrorist. A terrorist who has killed people and wants the world to be the way it was after the Snap. She's essentially pro-Thanos. She felt the world was better during the time after The Snap and before The Blip. Sam respected this.

"And he's justified in being horrified not that Walker killed someone, but that he did so using Captain America's shield.

Attacking a weaker opponent and killing him is bad enough, but to use the shield is pure desecration to Sam. Heck it felt that way to me. I think it's intended to feel that way, which is why the last shot is Walker donning the shield defiantly, bloodstain clearly visible."

You can't fight with terrorists when they are "weaker" now? That guy was also a super soldier btw, so weaker how? Whether Walker was justified or not is a separate issue, and I can agree that he was probably not, but this "bad guy is weaker, can't attack him" is not an argument. Cap has fought weaker opponents. All the heroes have. This is not a real complaint.

But back to the meat and potatoes of your comment. You're just proving my point. We watched Karli kill whatshisface. This is after she killed aid workers the previous episode. And all we're talking about is Walker.

[–] Boricanator (1443) 4 years ago

I think they tried to speak with her because the last time they got their asses kicked.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

So cops just need to ask harder when a suspect is resisting? Stop it. He literally tried to negotiate with a terrorist.

[–] RoloTony (1292) 4 years ago

I think the real question is - how come that guys head didn't come clean off?

[–] FilmBuff (7261) 4 years ago

No reaction? There was a huge reaction. Even her own cohorts appeared ready to turn against her. You aren't paying attention, per the usual.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

There's literally no talk about the villains of this show. Every article and social media post is about "Walker!!!"

https://collider.com/falcon-winter-soldier-episode-4-ending-explained-captain-america-shield/
https://www.ign.com/videos/falcon-and-winter-soldier-episode-4-the-real-reason-why-captain-america-is-a-bad-guy-now-mcu-canon-fodder
https://www.ign.com/videos/isaiah-bradley-the-vile-history-behind-marvels-forgotten-captain-america
https://www.ign.com/videos/falcon-and-winter-soldier-episode-2-why-the-mcu-hid-this-dark-secret-about-captain-america-mcu-canon-fodder
https://www.hindustantimes.com/entertainment/web-series/the-falcon-and-the-winter-soldier-ep-4-marvel-fans-furious-after-john-walker-taints-captain-america-s-legacy-101618041549021.html
https://screenrant.com/john-walker-captain-america-battlestar-death-comic-difference/

Morgantheau has murdered people. Stolen food and medicine from people who need it. Sam tried "talking" to her. He negotiated with a terrorist. Bucky broke another terrorist out of prison for fuck's sake. But "wAlKEr!!!!" It's retarded. This show doesn't work. It wants you to hate Walker and not only is it not completely earned, it excuses everything everyone else does. It's blatant hypocrisy and ruins the show's credibility.

[–] asom (6864) 4 years ago

America bad, terrorism good.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

BINGO.

[–] ManToTrust (1660) 4 years ago

True analysis, and again, it has parallels with the stupidity and hypocrisy of the real world.

Riot all summer, cause billions in damage, murder over 100 people, and the authorities just want to talk to you. However, riot at the Capitol with 1 protester murdered by an unnamed police officer, and the full force of the FBI comes down!

FATWS is actually a masterclass commentary on the current time and the lax response to the violent fascist woke.

[–] papamihel (1616) 4 years ago

Oh, people are gonna love your comment.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

He's not wrong. It's massive hypocrisy. This year's riot? Outrage! Last year's months long disaster? "But, that's different!" 25 people died. Cities destroyed. Not only was it not criticized, it was defended. It's the same mindset of the people who are somehow ignoring or justifying Morgantheau and Bucky/Sam to a lesser degree.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

If they're gonna play the "government is bad" angle, they actually have to make the government bad! Like in The Winter Soldier with Redford and some others having infiltrated the government.

THANOS killed half the universe, NOT the "uS GoVerNmEnt!", "bIG BuSinEss!", or "WaLkEr!!!" *derp derp* Those people were gone for 5 years and The Avenger brought them back. Naturally, there are logistic comments, but it's still nothing any government official did wrong.

In comes Morgantheau. Steals medical supplies, food, and starts killing. She is literally a terrorist. She killed someone mere minutes before Walker killed her guy. Does the audience say anything about that? *crickets* But "WaLkeR hAs tO PaY!"

Sam and Bucky are working with a mass murderer/terrorist. Again, crickets from the woke crowd.

This show is so poorly thought out, but people are rubes and as long as you say authority = bad, they tow the line; whether it's actually justified or not.

[–] ultravioletx (10237) 4 years ago

First, Walker appears to be getting more screen time. Second, Walker was set up as a goodie two shoes hero, now revealing a bigger character arc than Karli, making people react to him more. Karli was a villain from the start, with the show throwing crumbs that she's not just out for blood. Not quite the two-dimensional villain, but not far enough away from it that viewers absolutely gravitate towards her.

Keep in mind Zemo also gets a lot of respect despite being a terrorist, I would argue worse than Karli. But again, we were seeing a drastic character arc from him like we saw with Walker. Audiences respond to that stuff.