MovieChat Forums > The Mandalorian (2019) Discussion > ROTJ Luke was always my least favorite L...

ROTJ Luke was always my least favorite Luke

posted 4 years ago by kuatorises (7467)
27 replies | jump to latest

It was cool seeing Luke stroll up in his X-Wing and show his power, but it was also pretty cliche too. He's walking around swinging his saber against insurmountable odds (and lots of enemies). It was a classic "more/bigger is better" situation. I liked it to an extent, but I also had no problem with his display of power in TLJ. I actually liked that quite a bit. It was a huge display of power. He did something no one ever did (on screen) before. It wasn't the typical swinging of the lightsaber against hordes of opponents either. But the action was the only part I liked about his appearance in Mando.

I don't like Luke's personality from that era. I never have. ROTJ Luke sucks. He was my favorite character growing up, but he has ALWAYS bothered me in ROTJ. He has no personality. He's Mace Windu-level wooden.He's not interesting because he's too busy walking around brooding and acting like he HAS TO act like he has no personality. His obsession with "saving" Vader is also a huge turnoff. People complained about him, but I liked him much more than ROTJ Luke. He had a personality. Mando brought back that bland Luke and I don't like it.

[–] Guitar King (4996) 4 years ago

Motion capture/CGI "actors" can't emote because their facial performance has to be articulated by animators. Next time, they need to hire a flesh and blood actor who can bring the character "to life" and give the character more personality.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

This ain't about the CGI/motion capture, Luke was like that in ROTJ. I didn't like his personality then and I don't now. He had none. He seemed to be under the impression he had to act like a robot in order to be a Jedi. I liked him waaaaaay more in TLJ no matter how much shit that movie get; and even though it's my least favorite of the new ones. Hell, I read the Kylo Ren series of comics, and Luke was more likeable then. He had no personality in ROTJ, he went back to being a normal emotional person in the sequel era, and this show brought back robot Luke.

[–] Guitar King (4996) 4 years ago

Alec Guinness and Liam Neeson were pretty stoic, too. You just don't like jedi masters.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

The were calm, but they aren't wooden. They had personalities. Obi Wan and Qui Gon actually pissed people off (Han, Padme, Watto). I have no problems with them at all. Luke just walks around all "You will bring Solo and the wookie to me" and "I shouldn't have come, I'm endangering the mission." He's wooden and superior. He showed personality when he fought Vader, but is a fucking robot the rest of the movie.

[–] mitzibishi (1968) 4 years ago

They really need to use the Deepfake technology and I don't know why the studios haven't jumped on it yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=861gfPVmgdc&ab_channel=CorridorCrew

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg1LPc6WUdM&ab_channel=Jarkan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byKy9kGnyvo&ab_channel=Shamook

[–] Guitar King (4996) 4 years ago

I heard Deepfake technology can't be used because Lucasfilm doesn't own it.

[–] Threadkiller (3088) 4 years ago

Interesting. I've never seen this point brought up before but I can actually understand how someone could feel that way. That being said I never had a problem with Luke's personality shift in ROTJ and obviously Luke's change in temperament was meant to help signify his growth from the naïve & impatient young farm boy to the more experienced & stoic Jedi knight.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

Impatient my ass. He wanted to have a life at 20. He worked for his uncle his whole life, so what if he wanted to leave? That's not impatience, that's normal. Luke was a normal person in the first two movies and parts 8 and 9. He had a personality, emotions, and flaws. Jedi? Robot. Why does an experienced Jedi have to have no personality?

[–] Threadkiller (3088) 4 years ago

When I say impatient I was more so thinking about TESB Luke. ANH Luke = Kind hearted but naïve & inexperienced farm boy with dreams of greater things. TESB Luke = impatient & rash Jedi neophyte, Not entirely sure of himself, struggling to find his way

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

And I'd still take him over Mr. No Personality. ROTJ Luke is the least interesting Luke of them all.

[–] Threadkiller (3088) 4 years ago

It's interesting that Han is usually who comes up the most when discussing character growth but when you really look at it Luke clearly has the most character growth of the three main characters. While the core of his characterr remains in tact, he has a distinctly different temperament in each film.

If nothing else my only complaint about "ROTJ Luke" showing up in The Mandalorian finale was that it was sort of broke the trend of the OT of where Luke is a bit different in each subsequent appearance. I mean there was no difference whatsoever, right down to having the exact same outfight and hairstyle.

[–] [deleted] 4 years ago

Good points. He had developed the kind of aloof sanctimonious that had led to the downfall of the Jedi order in the first place.

[–] triplea (3577) 4 years ago

What insurmountable odds?

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

About 2-3 dozen Dark Troopers?

[–] triplea (3577) 4 years ago

Vs a light saber that can cut through them like butter?

Even Mando beat one of them without all of his weapons.

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

You know, now that I think about it, I totally agree!

Hamill isn't the greatest actor but he can hit the nail on the head sometimes, and I think he did exactly that as young Luke, and old Luke. He was perfect as the gormless kid of the first two films and the sadder-but-wiser hermit of the sequels... but Hamill didn't really know how to play the monkish young Jedi in "RotJ". He just didn't know how to make the character interesting or likable, as an intermediate Jedi. Although of course I don't think that was Hamill's fault, I've never much liked "RotJ", everything seems off from the performances to the editing to the fucking Ewoks.

And of course, for "The Mandalorian", they had to bring back the stiff young Luke of his not-quite-a-master Jedi years.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

I'm not criticizing the acting, I don't like Luke at that point in his life. Everyone is running around trying to stop a dictator and his army and he's all brooding in the background, "But my father...." *stares off into nothing*

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

I would argue that the acting does affect how much a viewer likes a character, but you're also right about the character's actions. I don't like a lot about "RotJ", and you're right, Luke''s idea of passing on the right and setting out to redeem his father through love never really worked for me. Okay, it's what ended up saving the galaxy from a tyrant to I'm not going to bitch about it, but yeah - it's one of the many things about RotJ that tried to tug at the heartstrings and missed.

So much about RotJ is a fail, like Harrison Ford is clearly sick of the whole Star Wars business and can't be arsed to do anything good. And the redwood forests, I grew up near redwood forests, they don't look the least bit exotic to me, bitch bitch, etc. etc.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

I'm saying he was portrayed that way on purpose in Jedi. That his portrayal wasn't because Hamill did something wrong.I don't like Luke as much as a person in this. He's cold, distant, and removed form everything. I don't like the way he carries himself. I like ROTJ very much. It's arguably my favorite. I don't like Luke in the movie and it's not an acting or writing thing.

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

Well actually, a lot of the stuff you describe as disliking is up to the actor - how he carries himself, whether he appears sure of himself or awkward, whether there's any break in his meditative facade, and frankly, I would have liked that Luke a bit better if he'd had occasional moments of awkwardness or humanity. Because yeah, he was cold and distant 100% of the time, and I think he'd have been more appealing and had a better dramatic arc if he'd had moments of doubt or insecurity, shown a bit of the gawky old Luke that everyone liked. Or possibly even enough moments of doubt an insecurity to make everyone doubt his ability to keep his cool when confronting Vader, which might have added a new level of drama to the movie, you know?

I mean, the choice to blow off the fight to save the galaxy wasn't up to the actor, but a lot of what I'm discussing was up to the actor, well, and maybe the director. If Lucas had directed this, it'd have been 100% up to the actor, as Lucas is the worst actor's director who ever lived and gave little to zero direction.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

I'm REALLY resisting the urge to tell you to shut the fuck up for keep trying to tell me what I think when I EXPLICITLY told you how I feel.

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

I'm not trying to tell you what you think, I'm trying to discuss the arts of acting and film direction, but I can see you don't want to discuss that.

Goodbue.

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

I'm NOT talking about ACTING and FILM DIRECTION, ASSHOLE, I'm talking about a character I DO. NOT. LIKE. The actor did NOTHING wrong. He portrayed the character exactly how he was written. I don't like who the character is. It's not a production issue. It's an in-film issue. I don't like him. The actor did not fail, I don't like the character as a person at this point in his life. Fuck, dude.

[–] Otter (24464) 4 years ago

Oh, fuck off.

[–] melissah1982 (883) 4 years ago

I get where you are coming from completely. It's definitely better than the whiney Luke, which is what Mark wanted the audience to see. But at the same time, it left him with the appearance of no personality.

I liked Jedi Luke and felt his 'acting' in Jabba's palace was just there to make himself look menacing or serious. I wish they allowed him more time to be less of that character. But most of the other scenes he is very active and acting like himself. The way he enters the rebel's meeting about who's going to Endor, the way he runs after Leia on the speeder bike; Even when he throws his light saber away and smiles confidently to the Emperor; THAT's 'my' Luke. There was just no time to show it.

With the scene from the Mandalorian; I felt his character was too cold. Granted, they were limited in their technology and all that but I am just not one for the fast clinical prequal style of fighting they had him do with the dark troopers. that's not Luke's style of fighting and that bothers me more that 'bad CGI'. and then the stoic discussion and the cold 'he must come with me to train' dialogue bothered me too because That's not Luke. Luke is warm and honest. He's not there to put on a show like at Jabba's palace so there was no need for it.

But I think that is me being too caught up in my own personal opinion of what Luke is. in 2020, Jedis all have to be fast and studious and stand a certain way and fight a certain way. Mandalorian Luke could have been any prequel Jedi and that disappoints me. But to a modern audience; it's cool and what's expected.

[–] melissah1982 (883) 4 years ago

I ran out of space, lol

I will disagree with saving Vader. I think there is a great story here where Yoda and Obi-Wan brought him into play for one reason; to KILL Vader. and in ANH and Empire (pre-hand cut off) he would have. But to find out that the man you idolized was really a killer/villain; that does something to you. It makes you doubt if you can do what they are asking. so he has a conflict of whether he can kill Vader or not. I love that. I WILL say, looking back, I wish that Luke wasn't written to bring up the whole 'there's a change to turn him good' all the way back with Leia. I would have preferred it to be something he worked out and decided closer on in mid battle with Vader. If I were Leia and Luke said he wanted to save the man that legit was responsible for destroying her entire planet and family; I would probably want Luke arrested for treason or something, lol

[–] kuatorises (7467) 4 years ago

I would take "whiny" Luke all day everyday over ROTJ/Mando Luke. That Luke had emotions and feelings. He was a normal person. Not this monk we get in about 98% of Jedi. Those scenes you are talking about are like 3-5% of the movie. I LIKED when he lost his cool vs. Vader. We get to see a real human being again, not the Buddhist. This show brings the emotionless monk back and I hated that. Everyone is running around trying to save each other's lives and end The Empire and Luke is all, "I shouldn't have come, I'm endangering the mission" and "I know, father." He's such an ass in these scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-HFv6Ms1lw.

You're not wrong about him being so hell-bent on saving Vader. I hate that shit too. The guy is a mass murderer, I don't care that he's your father!

Too prequel, yeah. That's kinda what I mean. People who love Luke's scene in Mando just hate the sequels and are all giddy this "fixes" Luke. Well F that, because I like Luke better in the sequels than ROTJ or Mando.