MovieChat Forums > The Woman King (2022) Discussion > this movie really makes you realize how ...

this movie really makes you realize how completely racialized is the American understanding of slavery


In much of the world for much of history where there was slavery, the slaves and the slave owners were of the same race. America is an exception to that. That seems to have warped Americans' understanding of slavery. It's hard for Americans to think of slavey as a unique evil by itself. Instead we view slavery as bad because in our experience of slavery it was racist. We mostly view American slavery as bad to the extent that it involved racial differences between the slaves and the slave owners.

This movie is a perfect example of that point of view on slavery. The people who made this movie as well as the viewers who watched it aren't bothered by the fact that it completely reverses the role of Dahomey in African slavery because the reality of slavery in Dahomey doesn't bother them that much. Blacks enslaving other blacks doesn't bother them that much because both the slaves and the slave owners were the same race.

A similar historical movie about America where America never had slaves and actually fought other countries to free slaves would never get made and if it did get made would be far more offensive to a general audience because of the history such a film would obscure. In the American view, racialized slavery is too great an evil to allow ourselves to obscure the fact of its existence in a movie. The same isn't true for non-racialized slavery.

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It just shows how badly our school system failed us.

According to a lot of people in the US (particularly the arrogant, stupid ones), this is what they know about slavery:

- only black people ever suffered from it
- only white people ever owned slaves
- the Civil War doesn't mean anything
- only black people made a difference in the Civil Rights movement
- white liberals are the saviors of all black people
- America was founded on slavery and not freedom
- white Americans should be punished forever for slavery, even when none of the current generations ever owned one
- black people in Africa were always innocent, noble savages that would have done just fine if the evil whitey had just left them alone
- nobody else is allowed to make a career out of being the descendants of slaves
- Affirmative Action made things more "fair" for black people
- Welfare is the best thing that ever happened to the black community

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JESUS CHRIST...YOU ARE SERIOUSLY FUCKED UP. NOEMOJI

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the American system covers American history because, you guessed it ! its america

So in relation to the USA
1. black people were 99.99% of slaves
2. 99.999% of owners were white
3. who the hell ever said the civil war "didn't mean anything"?
4. um okay says who?
5.white saviours?
6. slavery is long lasting. sorry they decided to let a few more black people in a university due to a quota. is that threatening to you?
7. says who?
8. how wasn't it?
9. wow pushing more of the welfare stereotype. good job

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“A vastly expanded welfare state in the 1960s destroyed the black family, which had survived centuries of slavery and generations of racial oppression. In 1960, before this expansion of the welfare state, 22 percent of black children were raised with only one parent. By 1985, 67 percent of black children were raised with either one parent or no parent.” - Thomas Sowell

“If we wanted to be serious about evidence, we might compare where blacks stood a hundred years after the end of slavery with where they stood after 30 years of the liberal welfare state....Despite the grand myth that black economic progress began or accelerated with the passage of the civil rights laws and ‘war on poverty’ programs of the 1960s, the cold fact is that the poverty rate among blacks fell from 87 percent in 1940 to 47 percent by 1960. This was before any of those programs began.” - Thomas Sowell

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omg a far right libertarian said it so it must be true!!!

yes black people were living the life before the 60s. effectively unable to vote in the south. but they were doing great right?

notice how he chose that specific time frame?? what also happened in 1940-1960? the single biggest economic expansion in world history. as all of Europe owed the US money, and their booming WW2-post ww2 economy was supplying them. the US had literally 50% global GDP in 1947.

so all Americans lives improved, and yes some of that even trickled down to black people. but a fair amount? I doubt it if you look at white households income and wealth increase vs black during that time.

I live when contards leave out all the context. and think they nailed it. Hey reply back please I want to destroy your next nonsense point :)

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Why bother? Just double down on your ideological ilk's failed policies that have unequivocally done more harm than good. God forbid you leftists should ever learn from your mistakes.

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you gave no rebuttal. you just shrieked "nah uh!"

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You still are making a fool of yourself on these boards. By the way, why haven't you changed your handle yet to either Illogical Leftist or Illogical Socialist? I gave you 2 options

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You should narrow down your percentages.
There are black and white people all over the world and most had zero to do with the Slave trade between Africa and southern u.s.

Exactly where did they come from and where did they go?
Canadians, Irish, Italians, Greek, germans and so many more came to America after slavery and are bunched into this slave operation.
All those groups are current victims to those angry and violent over their past ens.

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I did not learn any of this in school. What kind of messed up school did you go to anyway?

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Hollywood clowns and woke idiots "popularized" American slavery so much that many people dont even know that slavery basically existed for all the time humanity existed. Ancient Egyptians had slaves, Ancient Romans had slaves and many-many other cultures and countries. Slavery exist to this day in some African countries. But not one woke clown cares. They only care about slavery in USA 170 years ago. Because they are morally bankrupt hypocrites who use it for attention and personal gain.

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tell me you don't know what you are talking about without telling me you don't know what you are talking about.

the transatlantic slave trade wasn't extra bad because it was race based. the American slavery system was particularly nasty, brutal and disgusting compared to others we had in the past (besides maybe the spartans)

the only way it relates to race is in the justification defenders of it used to say it was okay because these were subhumans, or not humans at all.

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LogicalLeftist,

First off, the transatlantic slave trade is not synonymous with American slavery. The vast majority of the transatlantic slave trade went to Latin America. And Latin American slavery was far more brutal than slavery in the American South. Latin American slavery had a much higher death rate than in the U.S. American slavery was not particularly brutal in comparison to slavery in other parts of the world and other parts of history.

And the relative brutality of American slavery, no matter how good or bad it was, does not explain the dominant American understanding of slavery that I described. This popular view of American slavery is not based on an exhaustive study of the relative brutality of American slavery in comparison to slavery in other parts of the world and other periods of history. It's based on a provincial view of the history of America's race relations. It's based on the historical differences in power and privileges between whites and blacks in America.

It's completely ignorant for you to deny the thoroughly racialized view of American slavery in contemopary America. Slavery is mostly seen as the beginning of the story of African Americans. It's seen as a continuum that went from slavery to Jim Crow to white privelege. That's why we have the 1619 Project. That's why contemporary police brutality against African Americans is blamed on slave catching and slave patrols. That's the reason for the recent American obsession with Confederate statues and monuments and the Confederate flag.

And even if there were any difference in brutality between American slavery and African slavery that would not explain a movie like The Woman King. Even if there were a difference that would not explain the choice of the filmmakers who made this movie. They didn't look at slavery in Dahomey and judge that the brutality of its slavery was sufficiently benign on its own merits to conclude it justified completely ignoring Dahomey's real involvement with slavery in a movie. They decided that such a historically inaccurate movie was justified because the non-racialized nature of Dahomey's slavery made it less offensive to them.

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"racialized", lol . Imagine thinking race had nothing to do with slaver +facepalm+

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Race obviously had something to do with *American* slavery. But I'm talking about slavery as a whole *throughout world history*. For most of history slavery had nothing to do with race. But Americans view all of the world's historic slavery through the lens of American slavery and that racializes American understanding of all slavery. And that's how you end up with a movie like this that completely ignores the existence of slavery in Dahomey. We can't conceive of any instance of slavery as truly evil without a racialized component.

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Obviously, you didn't see the movie or you wouldn't be misrepresenting it.

You're also oversimplifying slavery. I don't believe you have a complete knowledge about it.

1. You're lumping all black people together which shows you don't understand the role of slavery in Africa.

2. You also fail to acknowledge that Europeans were enslaving and selling each other into slavery, too. Slav comes from slavery.

3. Another important distinction was the huge difference between slavery practiced before and during the Atlantic Slave Trade which you don't appear to know. Again, you're oversimplifying by lumping all slavery together which is far from the historical truth.

4. Modern racism began 500 years ago and was used to justify the Atlantic Slave Trade. It's important to compare the world before and after modern racism in order to completely understand slavery, racism, warfare and history.

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Slavery started over 100,000 years ago in African. Nobody was selling anyone. You are an idiot!
500 years ago slavery started in the Caribbean, mostly by the Spanish.

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You're so dumb!

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Keelai,

I readily admit that I haven't seen this movie but I have read the Wikipedia summary of the film and as far as I can tell I'm not misrepresenting it in any way. Can you tell me what in the movie I'm actually misrepresenting? I would remind you that this thread is simply meant to be about how *Americans* *view* slavery. How does my supposed oversimplification of slavery actually prove me wrong about how Americans view slavery?

1. I'm not "lumping all black people together". What did I actually say that makes you think I'm doing so? How have I shown that I don't understand the role of slavery in Africa? I simply pointed out that Dahomey really did have slavery but the movie shows that it didn't. Is that in any way wrong?

2. I'm fully aware Europeans enslaved each other and that the word 'slave' derives from the fact that so many Slavs were forced into slavery. I don't know what my failure to mention that history proves. Can you explain to me how it disproves my claim that Americans have a racialized understanding of slavery? Remember, I'm talking about how contemporary Americans think of slavery rather than the facts of slavery itself.

3. Can you please tell me the huge difference between slavery practiced before and during the Atlantic Slave Trade? I know there were various differences in the specific details of the practice of slavery in different times and places even if I'm not aware of all those differences in detail. But more importantly, can you explain how any of those differences disprove my claim that Americans have a racialized understanding of slavery?

4. I'm aware that racism was used to justify the Western enslavement of Africans. I don't know what that has to do with my point. After all, there was slavery prior to that historical period and there was non-racialized slavery both before and after that historical period.

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You didn't see the movie therefore you don't know anything about the story nor plot. The movie isn't about slavery!

When are you going to see the film? You've completely missed my points re: 1-4. See the film for an informed discussion.

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Like I said before, I read the Wikipedia summary of the movie so I have the basic gist of the story. It's not enough for you to simply tell me that I'm wrong because I haven't seen the movie. To prove me wrong you have to actually explain to me what happens in the movie and how that proves me wrong. Dahomey fighting against slavery may not be the main point of the movie but it clearly is still part of the plot. I explained in detail in my last post why your points 1-4 were not persuasive. Unless you explain in detail how my rebuttals were wrong then I can't take seriously your claim that I completely missed your points. I have no intention of ever watching this movie.

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You forget Muslim slave trade and tens of millions of people from Africa, Europe, the Middle East and the Near Asia who died as slaves.

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I didn't forget about the Muslim slave trade. It was actually foremost in my mind when I wrote the OP. I simply didn't see how mention of it would be relevant to this topic. After all, the Muslim slave trade is generally ignored by those who racialize their view of slavery in the way that I'm talking about.

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"I simply didn't see how mention of it would be relevant to this topic."

Again, you don't know what you're talking about because you haven't seen the film.

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Really? The Muslim slave trade is somehow relevant to this movie? Please tell me how. You can't just keep telling me that everything I say about the movie is wrong just because I haven't seen it. What you're doing is just deflection.

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arabs and africans had thousands of white slaves.

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try millions of white slave!! the word slave come from slav - million of slavs taken as slave by pirate. ask american retard what slave mean and they think it mean black man!! this is how retard american are - think entire history of human taking slave only counts in america hahahahahahahah. no wonder you have such race obsess society with this retardation.

arab raided europe as far north as icelands. empty entire village of men woman childrens. raid africa. arab very powerful and take long to be stopped.

slavery was not race. tell american that arab and euro had power and in this old times power people take slave.

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Testing of American college students has actually proved the widespread American ignorance about the global prevalence of slavery. Professor Duke Pesta gave quizzes on slavery to students at several colleges for over 10 years. His testing demonstrated that American college students didn't know anything about slavery outside of America, they believed that slavery was just an American problem that more or less ended with the Civil War and they didn't know anything about the history of slavery prior to the Colonial era.

https://www.thecollegefix.com/college-students-think-america-invented-slavery-professor-finds/

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