MovieChat Forums > Unbelievable (2019) Discussion > Funny how they weren't able to find a si...

Funny how they weren't able to find a single case of a woman wrongfully sentenced to jail for fake rape accusations

posted 5 years ago by kuku (3510)
21 replies | jump to latest

This is clearly a political series, sending the usual 'evil white males say there's fake rape accusations, shame on them!!! nazis! sexists! racists!". However, there's something very interesting about this series. Not what it shows, but what it doesn't show: it doesn't show a woman wrongfully sentenced to jail for a fake rape accusation.

They tried their best to find a victim to play the emotional card... and the most 'outrageous' case they could find was a woman charged by the Police, and the discharged once the investigation was finished, 40 days later ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_and_Colorado_serial_rape_cases ).

Think about it: the most 'terrible' case they could find of a woman wrongfully charged for fake rape accusations is... a woman charged 40 days for a crime she didn't commit and then discharged. Her real identity was never released. She didn't go to jail. She wasn't even sentenced to jail. She didn't even have to prove her innocence, since the police solved the case.

[–] yatzo376 (7717) 5 years ago

Relax and enjoy the show

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Relax and enjoy my comment.

[–] CarterBlunt (1401) 5 years ago

Yeah, lots of people these days are sending the message that we should "believe the victim" by default. But that necessarily means we have to believe the accused are guilty by default. Anyone with a basic sense of justice can see the problem with that.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

'Believing the victim' should depend on what's demanded.

If somebody claims to have been attacked and seems credible, that should be enough to provide help and assistance. However, if we're talking about sending somebody to jail, then evidence should be required.

Beliefs involving high costs should provide high evidence. You want help? well, then almost no evidence is required. You want a subsidy? then evidence is required. You want to send somebody to jail? then even more evidence will be required.

[–] MovieMadness (117) 5 years ago

But this show does make a great point that people don't really "lie" about being raped, in the sense that when someone makes such an accusation, she or he has been "violated" one way or another.

Similarly, your mind has likely been victimized in one way or another for you to resort to conspiracy theories to explain the motive of this TV show (and other things in your life as well, probably).

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Why 'people don't really "lie" about being raped'?

There's a few reasons people can lie about being raped:
- Vengeance|eliminate competition. It can be a very effective way to attack and even destroy a person.
- Blackmail. Threatening with a 'rape accusation' is an effective way to blackmail somebody. If that person doesn't access the demand, you can carry out the threat.
- Maintaining social status. You can bypass being labeled as a slut by stating you were raped.
- Cheating. You can bypass having cheated by simply stating you were raped.
- Increasing social status. That's relatively new, right now being a 'rape victim' increases your social status.

And probably these are not the only ones.

[–] MovieMadness (117) 5 years ago

You need to understand that when a rape victim is not credible to you, that doesn't necessarily mean she "lied." Also, the burden of proof is on the prosecution. The rape victim has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that her attacker is guilty. So lying wouldn't do her much favor, and it could even have her put in jail, as depicted in the show. A weak case with an "unreliable" accuser probably wouldn't even make it to a trial.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

You need to understand that when a rape victim is not credible to you, that doesn't necessarily mean she "lied."

Beg you pardon? You said that people don't 'lie' about being raped. I listed a few reasons why people could lie about being raped. We don't know what percentage of accusations are fake. Maybe a 5% are fake, maybe a 25%, a 50%, or a 90%, we just don't know, but what's sure is that there's reasonable incentives for them to happen. What we don't know is the prevalence.

That was my argument. Don't assign to me words I haven't said.

[–] MovieMadness (117) 5 years ago

Exactly, "we just don't know." Thank you for finally reaching that conclusion on your own. There is "reasonable incentives" for ANYTHING to happen, but you need PROOF. And as I said, the court of law is already set up to make lying rape victims unlikely. It is also set up to prevent incredibly obtuse people like you from causing any damage, such as not having you serve as a juror in a case like this. So continue with your paranoiac thought process that will affect no one but you.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Exactly, "we just don't know." Thank you for finally reaching that conclusion on your own.

Beg you pardon? That's been my position long before this debate. If you're saying or suggesting otherwise, you're assigning to me (again) words or statements I haven't said or suggested.

Again, don't assign to me words I haven't said.

There is "reasonable incentives" for ANYTHING to happen

????????

Not at all. Sometimes there's incentives beyond reasonable, sometimes less than reasonable, many times incentives are negative.

incredibly obtuse people like you [...] your paranoiac thought

Well, at least here you're not making up words I haven't said and assigning them to me. You're insulting me instead :D

[–] MovieMadness (117) 5 years ago

Beg you pardon? That's been my position long before this debate. If you're saying or suggesting otherwise, you're assigning to me (again) words or statements I haven't said or suggested.

>> There is "reasonable incentives" for ANYTHING to happen

Not at all. Sometimes there's incentives beyond reasonable, sometimes less than reasonable, many times incentives are negative.

Well, at least here you're not making up words I haven't said and assigning them to me. You're insulting me instead :D

Again, EXACTLY. That was your position before, and it didn't support your argument about rape victims lying, and it STILL doesn't support it. You have YET to offer any convincing argument that supports it. That's commonly known as LOSING AN ARGUMENT, which you are too insecure and defensive to admit. Your only defensive mechanism is, "Hey, I didn't say it; you put words in my mouth." If that's your debating skill on display, no wonder your thought process is so convoluted.

That's the definition of "anything," buddy: incentives could be reasonable, less than reasonable, N times less reasonable, etc., etc.. You did nice a job covering all bases and demonstrating incentives could be ANYTHING. Bottom line: you DON'T KNOW what "reasonable incentives" there could be for rape victims to lie. All you have are unproven speculations resulted from your PERSONAL issues, beliefs, education, upbringing, etc. I have personal feelings too, and so does everyone else. But do you see me making wild unproven speculations?

YOU INSULTED YOURSELF with all these inane remarks that tell us more about yourself than anything. YOU INSULTED YOURSELF with defensive mechanisms such as "You put words in my mouth; that wasn't my argument" whenever you lose an argument.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Again, EXACTLY. That was your position before, and it didn't support your argument about rape victims lying, and it STILL doesn't support it.

I didn't say people who declared to be rape victims were lying. I said that they were a few reasons why people can lie about being raped, and right now, those reasons can clearly incentive fake rape accusations.

Again, don't assign to me words I haven't said.

You have YET to offer any convincing argument that supports it. That's commonly known as LOSING AN ARGUMENT

Well, the problem is that you're not "winning" against me. You imagine yourself winning against some imaginary opponent that represents me but only exists in your imagination. You haven't listened to what I've said, you just built some straw-man in your mind to argue with you, and that's why every answer I give is 'don't assign to me words I haven't said', 'again, don't assign to me words I haven't said', in this thread and this other one: https://moviechat.org/tt7909970/Unbelievable/5d86fc1d8a4f00237ea0ca49/Another-famous-case-about-people-lying-under-police-coercion

Whatever, I leave it here. I leave you with your imaginary opponents.

[–] MovieMadness (117) 5 years ago

The only thing imaginary is the rationale you came up with for rape victims who would lie. Oh they don't lie, oh they could lie, oh I didn't say they lie, oh I did say they had reasons to lie, LOL. The verbal hoops you jumped through simply shows you are not all there upstairs. And here you are posting long-winded posts lecturing everyone about everything. Sort out your personal issues, get your mind straight, then worry about debating about social issues.

[–] sunezno (269) 10 months ago

I have to say that even four years ago, these are all incredibly unlikely and, dare I say, unreasonable "reasons".
Phone data alone would be enough to prove the lie in any of those scenarios, first off.
But secondly,

Maintaining social status. You can bypass being labeled as a slut by stating you were raped.

Even four years ago, what decade do you think this is? No one fears "being labeled a slut" these days, or at least not to the extent that they just go around calling everyone a rapist. As if that's even how the social narrative would go, anyway. Maybe-- maaaayyybe someone might lie to a partner or close group of friends, for any of your ridiculous reasons, but people don't just throw around false rape allegations to the cops all willy-nilly.

To be clear, I'm not saying that it has never happened. But I find that the people who are so quick to list those reasons and be defensive are usually the ones with skeletons in their closets or their hand on a coworker's thigh.

But, again, if you're not out there raping people, your phone data will likely show that.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Read the real life account of the investigation on which this series was based:
https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story

In that way, rape cases were unlike most other crimes. The credibility of the victim was often on trial as much as the guilt of the accused. And on the long, fraught trail between crime and conviction, the first triers of fact were the cops. An investigating officer had to figure out if the victim was telling the truth.

Galbraith had a simple rule: listen and verify. “A lot of times people say, ‘Believe your victim, believe your victim,’” Galbraith said. “But I don’t think that that’s the right standpoint. I think it’s listen to your victim. And then corroborate or refute based on how things go.”

[–] Jehosaphet (1063) 5 years ago

Just curious Kuku, are you aware of how this story went about being researched? How they decided to tell this particular story?
Because your perspective is all about how "they" were searching for the most blatant examples available to support this narrative they wanted to weave...but how do you know that's the case?

Maybe you have some insider information on the motivations behind this series, but if not...it kind of sounds like you might be the one flailing for something to fit your own narrative here. Not trying to be a dick, but come on...this is all predicated on an assumption. And a pretty brazen one, really.

What do you know...you do a Google search? Lol honest question there...what do you know?

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Yeap, you're right, it could be a coincidence, it would need further investigation :-)

It's like a pro-life organization making a movie about some abortion clinic, where the doctors there are lazy and miserable, and the patients can end up dead, abused or raped. And then some pro-life doctor appears and saves the life of a girl that went to that abortion clinic.

Of course, I'd suspect that they picked that story because their pro-life political agenda. But you're right, it could be a coincidence, it would need further investigation :-)

[–] Jehosaphet (1063) 5 years ago

Well I saw one name pop up as the writer, producer and director...don't have time to look it up now, but yeah it'd be interesting to see what she's about, what all she's been involved in.

But I still think you know something..."Its like a pro life organization making a movie about some abortion clinic"...
What makes you think there's any correlation between a cause and a narrative here? Is it just the premise being what it is? Just the subject matter?

[–] Orcsquisher (11) 5 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ItalianBuju (793) 4 years ago

You do realize this series was about a real life case, right?
Why would it show anything not related to this case?

[–] Rolltide (964) 3 years ago

It's true.