MovieChat Forums > Joker (2019) Discussion > Confused about his stay at the asylum

Confused about his stay at the asylum


When Arthur visits the asylum in order to find his mother's archives, he asks the clerk "how do people end up in this place?" with what seems genuine curiosity. But hasn't he been locked there himself, according to his doctor and his flashback? He should know the answer, then. It kinda looked like a small plot hole to me, but maybe it has an explanation.

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not a plot hole but rather it speaks to his delusions

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Early in the film there is a shot where he is banging on the door of an insane asylum. The way i see it, this was some kind of flash forward? Not a flashback. I don't think he went to the insane asylum until after the main events of the movie. It is not clear how he got caught.

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The social worker mentioned he had been in a hospital before.

I think it was just general delusion, possibly mixed with a desire to come off as normal as possible.

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Oh sorry, I missed it upon my first viewing. I feel embarrassed.

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Note: This went on a bit longer than I anticipated (lol).

At the end of the film where he was talking to the shrink, I actually thought it was going to be that he was telling her "his story," so all that we saw was from his perceptive.

It was almost to the point of me expecting him to reference Killing Joke and when she asked what he was laughing about for him to say: "Well you see sometimes, I remember it one way, sometimes another...if I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice! My point is...my point is, I went crazy when I saw what a black awful joke the world was...I went crazy as a coot!"

So if that were the case there is something to be said for a flash forward regardless of the Social Worker asking him if he remembers why he was in Hospital before, which may have been for his brain damage and the card explaining it. Though that is also up for debate in my view as if he had a card that explained why he laughed uncontrollably in the wrong situations or to the wrong thing, then how come the shrink at the end didn't know that (if he had been in before). I mean that card could have been something that Joker had printed out himself, I would have to take another look however I do not believe it had any official looking logos on it, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Joker was the real person and Arthur was the alter ego he hid behind.

In fact with some of those moments taken in isolation, I have to wonder how many of the scenes where we see Arthur get bullied or harassed are merely delusions of his. Basically what if all the Joker’s insecurities are manifesting as hallucinations and he loves to play the victim, so he often imagines his own suffering to justify his blood lust.

For instance Joker/Arthur probably did really buy that gun from Randall and it was more him playing the victim in his mind, as in Randall didn't just give it to him, he may have lied and said only that Arthur had asked for one (wanted to keep his job so wouldn't say he got it for him). Similarly I do not believe the crowd were celebrating him, I tend to believe it was actually proper ambulance people that pulled him out of the cop car and that was the moment he was caught, his delusions just played out that "fans" had come to rescue him in that ambulance (and deliberately caused the accident).

So I wouldn't be embarrassed in thinking flashforward as the film is written in a way to play with our own thoughts of what we are seeing and others are going to see it in different ways to each other. I would even go as far to say that depending on the mood someone was in when they first go and see the film that they may view it differently to how they might if they were in another mood (say Bad Day at Work/School vs Good Day at Work/School or some such thing).

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Interesting.

I watched a Youtube video yesterday mentioning that there were 2 kinds of Arkham Asylum. The usual Gotham delapidated dirty asylum, and the squeaky clean all-white well-mantained asylum at the end scene.

So it is possible that the asylum (and Gotham) was actually in good condition, but in Arthur's preception everything was all bad because he's full of negative thoughts.

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That's interesting as well, I think that is the beauty of this film in that there are or could be many interpretations to it. Are we viewing it from Joker's point of view or is it an overall view being told, seeing we are shown not everything is real via the neighbour storyline. If being from Joker's point of view is why I wonder if Arthur is his creation and his way of justifying what he has done, so yep maybe Gotham wasn't that bad for similar reasons.

Really anything is possible and very little is possible all at the same time, maybe he was just someone who slipped through the cracks in a Walter White from Breaking Bad kind of way. Arthur like Walter just ended up enjoying being that bad guy, one who at the start some of us may have had a bit of sympathy for, however by the end while understanding what got him there couldn't condone what he chose to become.

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He was trying to be "normal" to the guy with his mother's file.
"I feel ya brother"... "I did some bad shit" and the joking like comments he made.

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