The question no one asks...


I think this is more for the 20/20 episode and Monique "blinky blink" Yingling. When all these letters come through about the SP's, the people who left the church, the people who they write "we disagree with MANy of the claims" about...

Why would you not say "why can't we find one former scientologist who has no problems with scientology?"

I mean, I'm an ex Catholic. I have my issues with the church, but I left the church because it just didn't fit in with my beliefs. I have no desire to take down the Catholic church and I have no problem with people who want to be Catholic. I wouldn't really ever talk anyone out of being Catholic (except my gay friends lol). You're trying to tell me every ex scientologist is a "bitter apostate" with all these problems with lying and abusing and bigotry? All these people who left the church and have problems with the church are these crazy abusers who are violent and fame wh0res and btter but no one in the church noticed they were those things in the 20, 30, 40 years they were in the church? It's only after they LEFT the church that the church that all of these things started offending the church?

It would be my first question to anyone supporting scientology denying all of the abuse and crazy claims people make.

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I think some former Scientologist won't speak out about Co$ because they want to stay connected to family that are still in the Co$

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Related to your question, it's *hilarious* how the church by its own admission keeps elevating awful people to important positions. Mike Rinder was in the elite of $cientology's elite, now the church says he's a degenerate. Same with Marc Headley and Tom DeVocht and Amy Scobee. Makes me think maybe the church is an abysmal judge of character... ;)

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Stimp-1 brings up the greatest point. Scientology can find quite a lot of people to back up the cult under pressure just so they can see their family, but the fact that most of their top-tier former members are willing to disconnect from their families and put up with the CoS's wrath in order to speak out says a lot more.

And yeah, does the church say to it's members when so many former authority have been labeled SP's? "Oh, they were degenerate the whole time" or "they were great Scientologists and they just snapped"?

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It is a good question, but they have it covered.

Watch the episodes; There people who are absolutely terrified to publicly speak about Scientology. Scientology will produce signed affidavits of ex-members proclaiming their love of Scientology, and even to the point of admitting it's their own fault for not being a member anymore. They're forced to sign these things just to get Scientology to leave them alone.

They have celebrities like Nicole Kidman & Katie Holmes under binding agreements to never speak about Scientology. Of course most celebrities follow a different set of privileges than non-celebrities anyway.

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"why can't we find one former scientologist who has no problems with scientology?"

One reason might be that once someone gets all the way out and starts a new life, they realize how crappily they've been treated all those years. Compared with other people they meet, who are in different churches, different faiths, they now realize that what they saw, and what they experienced, is not normal.

As someone mentioned above, when most people leave a (non-Scientology) church, they do so for personal reasons. They don't bad-mouth their former church because there are usually some things about it they still like or respect. But people we've seen on this show have left their so-called 'church' because higher-ups there physically or psychologically abuse others. These former parishioners now realize that treatment that they'd been conditioned to consider 'normal' really isn't, and they've actually been treated like dirt.

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No I get that, but would the church go after anyone who basically kind of stuck up for them and said, "listen, scientology wasn't for me but it isn't what people are saying, it can help people and I respect it as an organization?"

That's kind of what I'm saying. There's no middle ground of Scientologists former and current. It's either you are an absolute psycho who is obsessed with scientology defending it tooth and nail, like Mike Rinder's ex wife or his kids, and then you have ex Scientologists who clearly have major issues with the church who are trying to bring it down, like Mike Rinder.

No one asks the church heads why there is no one who used to be in the church who isn't anymore who speaks positively about it. Why it's one extreme or the other. Like I said, if someone asked me about being Catholic, I wouldn't be like "fvck those people they are evil and need to be brought down, they are all lying and it's an abusive cult" (whether it is or not, a topic for a whole other board haha). I'd simply say... the church wasn't for me, I don't share its ideologies and it has no place in my life, but I know plenty of people who enjoy the church and who participate in their communities and it fits for some people, sure".

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would the church go after anyone who basically kind of stuck up for them and said, "listen, scientology wasn't for me but it isn't what people are saying, it can help people and I respect it as an organization?"


This sort of seems like a two-part question. A) Are there former members who do as you say, and "sort of stick up" for the church? And B) would the church still go after them.

I'm sure the answer to A) is probably YES. I'm sure there are a lot of former members who don't bad-mouth the church in public. As to question B), I have no idea. On one hand, I'm sure there are a lot of former members who now live peacefully and don't make any trouble for the church. But on the other hand, I wonder if they first had to go through a rough time of being followed and harassed before it became apparent that they wouldn't make waves. How often do people leave the group without experiencing some form of repercussion or harassment? I don't know that i've heard of any such instances off the top of my head. This show has mostly interviewed high-level people; maybe low-level members, normal working stiffs, for example, can walk away with minimal problems. If so, they probably wouldn't say anything too terrible about the church. (Of course, if they're low level, they might not have experienced anything too terrible to talk about, either. )

But as I said earlier, I think the reason some former members do speak out so publicly is that they realize that something is terribly, terribly wrong with how the church is run. I don't think it's a matter of the church's "beliefs" (whatever those are), but the way in which the organization is managed: with lies, deceit, intimidation, and greed. I think that's what they're opposing.

No one asks the church heads why there is no one who used to be in the church who isn't anymore who speaks positively about it. Why it's one extreme or the other.

That's another good question. But I think maybe it's like being in a trance or something. While they're in the church, they think what they see is normal, they're slowly, incrementally inured to what they see. Some may call it desensitized. But when they finally hit the breaking point and get out, it's like they finally "snap out of it" and realize how extreme the actions of the church really are. Part of them knows all along that something is wrong... after all, they know they have to sneak out and act surreptitiously to escape. Once they're out they fully realize that members of other churches don't have to do that, don't have to secretly pack a bag, formulate a plan, contact people "on the outside" for help, etc. Maybe that's why they're so violent in their refutations of the church once they're out--it has fully, completely dawned on them how much they'd been manipulated for decades. Or all their lives, in some cases. Again, that doesn't happen with other mainstream religions. There isn't such an enormous sense of betrayal so the effect isn't as dramatic. (sexual abuse claims notwithstanding)

I know, this is long-winded, and probably didn't make a lot of sense. But long story short, I think that most people leave other churches because of faith/doctrine differences, but most people who leave the cult of scientology do so because the people who run it and the methods they use are downright bat-crap crazy.

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Oops, double post. Sorry.

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No I get that, but would the church go after anyone who basically kind of stuck up for them and said, "listen, scientology wasn't for me but it isn't what people are saying, it can help people and I respect it as an organization?"


I totally get what you're saying, I stopped going to the church my mom goes (Christian) and I have nothing against them, I have my beliefs but I don't go to church, I stopped going but when we have a problem or something, they're always there to help us outside church, they treat me nice and never forced anything on me. I only have good things to say about them.

Is there an ex scientologist that can say (with honesty) the same about that cult?

I'd love to know.

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