Do they ever explain why? or how come? also all the species they encounter speak of months/years.....so all of the sentient life in the universe just decided to sync with earths gregorial rotation?
The crew is using a translator and mentioned it in one of the episodes. Apparently, the same type of technology used in Star Trek.
shareI think of it this way: The story is being told to us and as it is a US production the audience's first language is English. So the story will be told, including dialogue, using English.
shareI think of it this way: The story is being told to us and as it is a US production the audience's first language is English. So the story will be told, including dialogue, using English.
shareYou know, I really get tired of these types of posts. Why do these aliens speak English. Why do the people in this historic drama speak English. It's tiresome.
Its a trope that is common in all types of theater that the characters speak in the native language of the watchers. So in a Spanish production they would speak Spanish. In a Chinese production they would speak Mandarin or Cantonese.
It is simply a method to simplify the work needed by the audience so they can concentrate on the story. Yes, occasionally a production will be produced in an ancient language (Passion of the Christ or Apocalypto) or a conlang language. (Klingon, Vulcan, Dothraki). These are done for dramatic effect and can be effective. But if every movie or series did this it would be tiresome.The audience would be so absorbed in reading subtitles that they don't concentrate on the story.
^^^^^
This....
"U S A! U S A! U S A!". .-9
The reading subtitles thing isnt a problem. Most of us in Europe have subtitles, not dubbing, when we watch foreign (yes including english speaking things). And we manage. So this isnt an issue.
And no matter the "of screeen reason", we should also been given av on screen reason, like i Dr. Who where the T.A.R.D.I.S. change the language so everynone understand each other.
Im just watching "The stars should appear", and this really bugs me: Why should peaople on a 2000 year old ship talk/understand all the spesifics of the english language ( even the dick jokes), doesnt makes sense.
But I really enjoy the Orville!
So, what you want is for every species/person to speak a different language? You do realize that conlanging (creating languages for fictional situations), is not a easy thing to do? It takes time and money to have someone competent create it.
And, before we hear protests of "well, just string some sounds together. No one will ever notice." yes, they will. Random sounds don't sound like a language. The reason Klingon, Dothraki, Sindarin, and others work so well is that they sound and feel like languages. The human ear can detect the flow and repetition and forms that create a language that random sounds just don't produce.
You may like subtitles, and if I am listening to a film that is not made in English, I prefer that to dubbing. But it is tiring and it can lead to distraction from the story. "Universal translators" solve that problem so that the emphasis is on the story being told.
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This kind of thing bothers me. I can understand all the viewpoints to the issue, but it's still an issue.
The real problem isn't really that they speak english, the real problem isn't even the fact they so loyally and stubbornly use every single american idiom and saying without thinking twice (twelve hundred instead of thousand two hundred, pee oh double us instead of prisoners of war (when spoken, it's not even shorter!), et cetera), as I mentioned in one post.
The problem is that people of this planet are incredibly stupid, lazy and tiny-minded. Their minds are extremely small by comparison to the geniuses and actually intelligent people. This means that the masses, which are the audience, will never tolerate anything that goes 'over their head' or isn't fast food-like in the ease of consumption.
Anything requiring acquired taste, knowledge of history or geography, other cultures or manners or appreciation of quirkiness flies out the window.
So when anyone tries to offer them something intelligent and well thought-out, they don't understand it, they get angry about it, and lash out. I think that Klingon language with subtitles, like they did in one of the Star Trek movies, would be BRILLIANT, I would applaud it and love it, and think it'd bring authenticity so sorely lacking in most hollywood slop people's tiny minds are being fed constantly.
I mean, can't german people speak german in any movie ever? At least japanese people are allowed to sometimes speak japanese, but other times you hear some hollywood bimbo butcher its pronunciation so horribly, your ears actually become sentient so they can wish they could vomit. I don't have the powers to point those movies that fit the bill while killing the language, but I am sure someone can figure it out.
The main problem is that you can't give pearls to the swine, or they will trample them, then turn on you and rend you.
Subtitles should not be a problem, because reading is faster than speaking..
I guess this subtitle-hatred has connection to the other problem of native english speakers commonly, WAY TOO COMMONLY have - not understanding english grammar, the inability to type simple english words (let alone sentences) correctly, and so on.
I mean, if they had more subtitles, perhaps americans could eventually learn to write english correctly. We can't have that.
Also, american audiences seem to worship 'spoken language' over written language for some reason, so even if they learn that 'their', 'there' and 'they're' are supposed to be written differently, they will just randomly choose one of those (while probably butchering that one, too), because as a kid, they only HEARD those being said and thus decided they are the same word.
Too stubborn to correct things at a later age, so they just keep using 'spoken english' in written form, and that's how you see all the verbal puke being spewed all over the internet by these mentally lazy idiots that just refuse to learn how to type simple english correctly.
Therefore, when they see subtitles, they enrage, because that's WRITTEN english - that's not the english their mom spoke in the kitchen when they were trying to steal cookies!
It's like they only learn 'spoken english', and then hate all other forms of it, so subtitles would immediately cause rage - HOW DARE someone expose them to WRITTEN english (not to mention correctly-written english!), when they have tried to stay away from it all their life, and mangle, twist and butcher it any chance they got.
Civilized people that are, of course, exposed to subtitles as a normal thing, have no such reaction - they are keen to learn and correct their mistakes, and maybe even learn other languages BECAUSE there are subtitles (I learned english this way quite a lot, starting to predict the english after reading the subtitles, and then saw if I got it correct or not - an efficient way to learn, because you're watching something you like).
Also, my japanese rose to another level exactly because of subtitles, and you always know you are advancing in your linguistical studies when you start seeing errors in the subtitles (fan-made ones, for the most part), and start correcting them in your mind. It's amazing how wrong people can hear things sometimes - even english subtitles on american shows can sometimes be incredibly bad, because the translator didn't understand the idioms or american culture (such as it is) at all.
In any case, I wouldn't mind subtitles, but I don't REALLY mind this 'convention', either, because it makes things faster, especially if it's explained well. It can never be fully explained, though, because people's lips still sync perfectly with what they say, so if there's a 'universal translator', shouldn't the lips move completely differently? If someone speaks japanese, and you get instant, real-time translation in english, the lips would definitely move completely differently than if they were speaking english, I can GUARANTEE you that..
I am more bothered by them not even TRYING to use 'quirky english', when you know there must be dozens of ways of speaking english from thick australian accent to how they talk in the Philippines to how Irish speak english, to how Indians think their english intonation is actually the correct one, and americans are wrong, and so on.
Heck, in UK alone, there must be like 50 different accents and ways to intonate words that are completely different from americans.
What I don't understand is why would the universal translator not only make things english (which would be fine, and could be fun, and SO MUCH could be done with this), but AMERICANIZES everything, abso-friggin'-lutely EVERYthing.
If ONE character could just ONCE say 'thousand two hundred' instead of 'twelve hundred' while they're wearing make-up that looks like it takes HOURS to put on, it would at least keep or add to the immersion that yes, this is not just some american actor..
..speaking lazily american writer-written lines without any thought, but it's ACTUALLY someone from a non-american world, that actually USES the english (or the translator would at least be more universal, not 100% americanizing everything someone says) in a more logical or at least different way.
But nope, everyone HAS to sound 100% american down to a tee cup, because that's obviously how an universal translator would work, and there's no variety or discussion on the matter whatsoever. Wouldn't the otherplanetarians WANT a bit more variety on the translation, not just always 'strictly americanized' style? Couldn't there be a menu option that..
..ok, never mind, but I hope people get my point. It would be fun to hear non-americanized english for a change, especially from someone whose head is full of weird make-up. It just becomes so pedestrian and 'streamlined to the max' when every crazy-looking blob just speaks 100% boringly americanized english and no variety is allowed, universal translator or not. Couldn't they have differently-tuned translators sometimes?
I guess this idea is too WILD for these shows, just like my idea of 'incarnation in a holodeck' - as in someone would actually incarnate into the holgraphic projection instead of a physical baby, so it would not be some 'A.I.' character, but actual soul... too wild for sci-fi show, I know. Sigh.
In Star Trek: Discovery, they tried to keep things "authentic" by having the Klingons speak almost entirely in Klingon, with subtitles, throughout the early episodes... and that went over like a lead balloon, with people complaining about the choice almost constantly.
There is a conceit in all dramatic productions that, although we hear the characters speaking English, they are, actually, speaking their native tongues. We are just simplifying things for you by having the English overlay what the characters were actually speaking. Think of the beginning of "The Hunt for Red October," where all the characters are speaking in Russian, with subtitles. You then have a nice transition where the camera focuses in one one actor and the dialog changes from Russian to English. The character did not stop suddenly speaking Russian... it was just a nice transition to show that, yes, the character is speaking Russian, but we are going to run the rest of the dialog in English so you don't have to read the entire movie.
In much of SciFi, the conceit is there is some sort of "universal translator" that interprets the alien language and turns it into a standard language which we, as the viewer, can understand. In Star Trek, it was the Universal Translator. In The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy, it was the Babel Fish. There's a similar device in The Orville. This simplifies the story telling so things can be told in a way we, the viewer, can understand, without have to read through a screen full of dialog.
You have explained it well, though I would call it a trope, not a conceit. But whatever word you prefer, this is the essence of the situation.
Isn't there an episode of DS9 where Quark & Nogg are in the past, but their Universal translators are broken so the army men are hearing the Ferengi language until they fix them?
shareYeah, they got stranded on Earth. That was a pretty good episode.
shareThere was even an episode where a new alien race enters DS9 and nobody could understand them for a few minutes, up to the point the translator learned enough and the aliens began "to talk in englisch" / got translated.
That is the difference - Star Trek paid attention to details like that. The Orville is a bland copy but without the same level of determination. I still enjoy it though - but they should have made the copy a little less obvious.
It's called "universal translators" implanted into people's heads in the future. Get it?
Also, as I had to explain on the "Clash of the Titans" page, most audience viewers are intelligent enough to know that the characters are probably not speaking 21st century English, and the actors merely are because the show/movie was made for English-speaking audiences. What part of this is so confusing to you?
So you'd rather them speak "alien" so you couldn't understand them when you watch the show?
share"So you'd rather them speak "alien" so you couldn't understand them when you watch the show?"
Convenience vs. immersion, realism vs. entertainment, etc.
I get it, how it's handy, and you can come up with any 'plausible' explanation for a fictional show set in the future.
But sometimes, just -sometimes- it would be more immersive, if not everyone spoke perfect american-english, because you have to wonder, ok, "how do they know the concept of this, but not understand what that word means?" or 'wait, how can E.T.s that live thousands of light years away from Earth and hundreds or thousands of years apart chronologically, understand that kind of cultural reference, how can a totally isolated alien people know what 'áss-kissing' means, for example, etc.?
When you start thinking of 'ok, they understand english, but because of their circumstances, they would have no way of knowing what this terminology means', many things fall apart, and their conversations become impossible, and it takes you away from the story and destroys immersion.
There's one scene, where they find this message that has been buried for generations, and of course it's spoken in perfect american-english and uses words, conventions, intonations etc. that are perfectly modern to the viewer. It just doesn't make any sense. At least in THAT kind of cases, it would be better if the message was 'klingonese' and then it had to be translated by someone who has researched ancient klingonese and can somewhat decypher it, etc.
But no, -= EVERYTHING =- is straight, modern american-english complete with idioms, intonations, accent, conventions, metaphors, etc. etc.
Of course they sometimes ask "what is Yoda?" or lament how they never heard that metaphor before, and how it's 'wise' (although it's some stupid pop culture reference or lyrics from an inane song), but it's just not enough.
That ancient message being such modern american english breaks the immersion immediately.
I mean, they could've used some actual Earth language - there are hundreds to pick from - so it would be at the same time a nice wink to the audience members, who understand it. Japanese, Chinese or ancient Mayan would've been cool. How about Latin or some Australian bushman language or Indian ('native american'?), Peruvian etc. languages? Really, you could mix them up nicely, or something.
When something is ancient and isolated for multiple generations, you really want it to be 'special', not 'mundane'. Perfectly spoken, intonated, modern american-english is mundane, a more 'exotic' language would be more 'special'.
It's just the lazy way out. "Meh, have everyone speak english, we have a production schedule here, we can't be ársed" is just so disappointing.
At least have SOMEONE speak with even a SLIGHT accent, especially if they're supposed to be a completely different civilization that no one has ever heard of before. But no, always perfect american-english. It's really making things flat and unimaginative.
I don't mean they should all speak russian or klingon with subtitles.. (though I don't understand why americans are so lazy that not reading books is not enough, now they can't even be bothered to read a couple of lines of subtitles - I have NEVER had a problem reading subtitles, ever since I learned to read them.
It doesn't make any difference to me whether there are subtitles or not, unless the subtitles have mistakes in them (japanese culture, for example, is often so misunderstood by stupid english-subtitlers, that it almost makes me scream out loud to the TV, but that's a rant for another time. It's like translating something literally, when the meaning is idiomatic.
In other words, I can enjoy a HongKong movie just as well subtitled and subbed - except I PREFER the subtitles, because it retains the original audio, which is usually better, and in any case, I hate when they 'dub' things too much for multiple reasons anyway.)
..but if you can at least INCORPORATE some other language in some, selected places, it can work to your advantage.
If everything is always in american-english, it becomes linguistically and tonally more flat, and you can just have it run in the background and lose interest.
But if at some, specific places, you suddenly hear something completely different, it wakes you up and makes you curious as to what's happening. You don't even have to have subtitles (stop being too lazy to read subtitles, isn't it bad enough you don't read books?), you can just leave it to the imagination of the viewer.
I was making a story once, and I was including a lot of dialog (in english, of course). But then I wondered.. maybe it's better if the viewer is engaged a bit more, instead of spoonfeeding information - what if I remove all dialog and let the events just happen, and the viewer has to interpret, imagine and wonder about what happened, why and how, and what the meaning behind everything is.
That story became much more interesting and intriquing that way. I can't review my own work, of course, but I think people got much more out of it that way, when you have to engage yourself a bit intead of being as-passive-as-possible-audience that's spoonfed everything.
Entertainment that makes you think is the best entertainment, and linguistically flat "always 100% perfect, modern american-english without even slight accents" avoids engaging the viewer for the sake of convenience, trope, and all that crap that some people try to justify so hard and make excuses for.
You can user language to your advantage, it doesn't have to be 100% american-english and 100% subtitles. Why not have more english-accents, AT LEAST? Australian-english, thick British-english (plethora of accents there), broken english, pigeon english, japanese engrish, etc.
Heck, even Fawlty Towers was greatly enhanced by Manuel's 'pigeon english'. But convenience trumps all..?