MovieChat Forums > The Punisher (2017) Discussion > This shouldn't have been called the Puni...

This shouldn't have been called the Punisher

posted 7 years ago by PotatoWithEyes (145)
10 replies | jump to latest

Whether it's an objectively good show or not is beside the point. This isn't like the Punisher comics at all. The three movies, whatever their other flaws, were closer to the comics than this was (yes even the Dolph Lundgren one). The Punisher has a compulsive, pathological need to kill criminals, regardless of whether they were involved in his family's death or not. He can't be rehabilitated like this show seems to think. We had as many scenes of him bonding with Micro's family as we did of him punishing anyone!

[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

He has a pathological need to kill criminals in this show. That's why he killed a bunch of guys at the end of the first episode even though they had nothing to do with revenge. At the end of the first season, he even talks about how he feels he's useless without a war and he's worried about what he'll do next. It's subtle, but there are as lot of hints that he'll keep going.

[–] PotatoWithEyes (145) 7 years ago

That's why he killed a bunch of guys at the end of the first episode even though they had nothing to do with revenge.

And that may have been the only time in the entire show when it felt like the Punisher comics.

[–] [deleted] 7 years ago

I'm four episodes in.

For me, the problem is that he's too sadistic. I admit to only being a casual reader of the comics, but in those he would kill in the most efficient way he could in the circumstances. He was methodical and controlled. He got the job done quickly and moved on without looking back. That's also the way he has been portrayed in the cinema versions.

Bernthal's verson doesn't just stab people... he butchers them in a psychotic uncontrolled rage, turning them into raw meat as he shanks them dozens of time in the gut. Or he bashes their heads with a rock until their heads are paste and the blood and gore cover his face. His emotions have the best of him which is not in keeping with the comics, nor with the character's previous military history within this series.

I noticed this first during that restaurant? bar? scene in Daredevil S2 where he knifed the guy to death, not realizing that Karen was hiding under the table. I find it hard to believe that she would find sympathy for a guy who is so over-the-top bat shit crazy.

[–] DracTarashV2 (4493) 7 years ago

I’ll tell you this. The movie with Thomas Jane made the character... too lenient. His character didn’t stand out from most vigilantes you’ve seen before on film and TV. Bernthal’s version, on the other hand, actually PUNISHES the criminals (his introduction in Daredevil alone was savage, whereas Jane’s Punisher didn’t cause that amount of carnage in a whole movie).

There’s some liberties being taken here that I think actually benefit the show, but overall this is The Punisher.

[–] AP (5288) 7 years ago

Yeah, in live action, most audience members need the protagonist to emote. Comicbook Frank is nearly emotionless, which works in comic, but in a live action TV show, you need a bit of an emotional punch to get people invested. Otherwise, you get Ray Stevensen or Dolph Lundgren looking catatonic for several hours.

[–] DracTarashV2 (4493) 7 years ago

Exactly. It may stray from the source material somewhat, but certain things from the comics don’t translate so well in a live-action show. Having the brutal Frank Castle show a bit of a conscience or personality works.

[–] PotatoWithEyes (145) 7 years ago

I think you're misunderstanding my criticism. My main problem wasn't that Frank emoted or had a conscience, but rather, there was just too much of that theme and too little actual punishing going on. Also, there were too many scenes of Micro's family and also of the government agent whining about how hard her job was. I realize the show couldn't be all action all the time, but there should've been way more than there was.

For the record, I thought Punisher did too much emoting in Daredevil Season 2 as well, but the ratio of that to violently murdering criminals wasn't nearly as lopsided as it was on this show.

[–] TheReccher (344) 7 years ago

"Whether it's an objectively good show or not is beside the point."

No, it's not. It's the point. Everything else is ideologue fluff.

"This isn't like the Punisher comics at all."

Gene Hackman wasn't pre-crisis Lex Luthor, Hugh Jackman didn't wear gaudy spandex. Jon Berntahl wasn't a one dimensional killing machine. Good. If accuracy hinders quality, it is to be disregarded.

"The three movies, whatever their other flaws, were closer to the comics than this was (yes even the Dolph Lundgren one). The Punisher has a compulsive, pathological need to kill criminals, regardless of whether they were involved in his family's death or not."

Which means nothing if your writing, direction and performances are dogshit.

"He can't be rehabilitated like this show seems to think. We had as many scenes of him bonding with Micro's family as we did of him punishing anyone!"

Delightful. The writers knew that would be trite, boring and stupid to watch over a 13 hour stretch and rightfully ignored purists. Besides, it's not like he got reformed in any way, those scenes were meant to show his desire to return to a normal life, not his capacity to do so.

[–] PotatoWithEyes (145) 7 years ago

"Gene Hackman wasn't pre-crisis Lex Luthor"

Uh...I don't think that one helps your case.

"If accuracy hinders quality, it is to be disregarded."

And if alterations hinder quality, as it did with this show, they should be disregarded as well.

"Which means nothing if your writing, direction and performances are dogshit."

The movies were entertaining. The show was boring. What difference does it make which was better-made except maybe for awards or film school purposes?

"Delightful. The writers knew that would be trite, boring and stupid to watch over a 13 hour stretch and rightfully ignored purists. Besides, it's not like he got reformed in any way, those scenes were meant to show his desire to return to a normal life, not his capacity to do so."

They could've made their point with just one or two scenes of him bonding with Micro's family rather than ten. And the Homeland Security agent had way too much exposition...she wasn't that interesting.

[–] TandyMan (11120) 7 years ago

Strange show. Thought it was very good and very entertaining. But I agree that it wasn't really the Punisher. This is more like a story about a guy who's inspired by the Punisher character. Takes it on his mantle for revenge.