At the end of episode 07 Philip told Trevor "You are AT LEAST a 100 years older than me". What does that mean? How much is their life span? How old are the travelers? Are they coming from different times in the future?
This is one of my curiosities too. Someone called Trevor "the kid" and the response was "hahah, that kid is older than everyone else in this room combined." Which would imply that Trevor is at least 100+ years in age, just assuming that everyone else was somewhere in their 20s. I think there were 5 or 6 people in the room.
As much as I am glad there are no constant flashbacks (Lost / Arrow). I wish they showed some of their life before arrival. Trevor's character due to age was one of the most interesting characters for me and I feel like I know nothing about him.
Are they coming from different times in the future?In several conversations over the series they mention the fact that the team trained together before the transfer, which means they cannot come from different times in the future. share
The fact that they trained together makes me think that the life time is pretty much wider in their time, making Trevor 100+ years old and still alive to train with younger teammates.
shareDespite the collapse of society they clearly have much more advanced technology, and the way they saved Mac, much more advanced medical technology. These things combined have no doubt made the life expectancy much longer then what our life expectancy is.
I also don't think training with younger teammates can mean much. Trevor could have been in a wheel chair and hooked to a life support system and still been able to function as a legit member once sent back. Even if he wasn't specifically trained to go back to the 21st century he was still trained as an engineer and had that knowledge to contribute.
Given that his teenage girlfriend gave him his first stiffie in likely decades I'm guessing their medical stuff isn't all that advanced, at least not for the truly important stuff. ;-)
My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2
If you're permanently frozen, say, in your thirties, you don't lack for vitality but it's not the same as being 17 when you frequently have to think about something as far from sex as possible just to get it down. In a future like the one they describe I doubt they could keep everyone alive indefinitely. That would be reserved for the brightest and most capable, whose talents justified it. You'd probably have to hide this fact from the majority of people or the ones you really need to save the world would become a despised elite. Who knows, maybe the secret's out in the new future and that's why the rebellion.
shareAnd Trevor said about the engineer Blue that she's been like that for a century. You get the impression that they've achieved indefinite lifespans in their future. Some of the oldest members of their society may even be alive somewhere in the present. It's like a cruel joke. They can live practically forever, free of disease, but no longer have a world worth living in.
shareMaybe there's no physical bodies in the future. Imagine if the consciousness of all people could be replicated in a crystal, like a microchip or something, and everybody is still "living", but in a virtual reality. In that way, all "consciousness" are immortal. That's why Trevor is the oldest one. His mind went to VR earlier than everybody else (at least from that group of Travelers). Maybe the "terrible catastrophe" that happened in the future - in order to make them travel back to try to "undo" it - was the fact that humanity could no longer reproduce or cure the ill, so they decided to transfer their minds to VR as they were dying. At least that was a way to preserve the human knowledge.
shareMaybe there's no physical bodies in the future
Maybe there's no physical bodies in the future.
Well, maybe they are the last ones to remain occupying physical bodies, and are desperately trying to revert this situation by travelling to the past in order to find and abort the event(s) that lead to this situation... I noticed that, whenever new travelers arrive, there is some kind of "emphasis" on how wonderful it is to "have a body". People feeling the sun, looking at their hands (an moving fingers), looking at nature, flowers, trees...
I guess we can find some answers to this matter in the next season.
shareThere's a simple answer to that, and the season alluded it to it in direct and subtle ways: they are born, live and die underground.
What they experience is sunlight, the breeze touching their skin, and contact with animals. Although their medical technology, thanks in large part to the director is highly advanced... think about it. The impact of Helios buried the Eastern seaboard, which means impact in the Atlantic Ocean, and at most the destruction of land masses in it, parts of the UK/Ireland, Norway and the Low Countries, yet we've seen Russian teams. Ergo a different event, or a chain of different events forced the Russians to live underground, and they either have their own technology, or the Director is the sole link between shelters.
On the other hand, the very old Trevor gave up football not just because he had a series of concussions, but also because while they had space designed to train, there was no space for leisure, like sports.
The travelers were chosen based on abilities from people who had best adapted to vitamin deficiency incurred by living underground. Their milk was most probably a soy-based one, hence why Grant didn't know what a cow milk was.
Now here comes the juicy part: Grace mentioned how they use quantum entanglement to transfer consciousness. This phenomenon is better known with the cat, the box and the poison, in other words, privileged chosen ones close to the director exist in a field where time doesn't pass, being both alive and dead at the same time. Trevor, Grace and Ellis hail from different centuries, but spent time with the AI which is sort of like in its own time, thus explaining how one can live into a thousand without losing any actual time (as we perceive it).
Which brings me back to controlling the quantum frame. There was a reason for the Faction to allow the Director to transfer back to the 21st, namely the same quantum entanglement in theory allows one to occupy two spaces in two different times actually communicating with itself. Traveler 4024 was sent back possibly by the Faction, after they tricked 4022 with bogus defusing techniques, so that he ends up with the other Faction members, break out of prison, and take possession of the machine. Why? I'm going on a tangent here, they can't access it in the future due to low social status. So it's equally possible the texts really were sent by the Director. Actually it's all Grace's fault. Had she not had put the AI offline, it would have time to predict our heroes will help his enslavement, a previously unknown variable. Though she condemned greed, her narcissistic desire for acknowledgment led to this.
I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Esher.
Be honest: are you stoned right now?
shareI think
I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Esher.said it all :). Both the references and the fact that both were misspelled (I presume he meant Gordian, of the Gordian Knot legend, and the artist M.C. Escher). share
To answer both of your question and statement: one, no I'm not stoned, nor have I ever been on mind altering drugs, and two, choosing Gordius after the person instead the knot itself is about complexity, as for Escher... it was auto corrected that way, and until now I did not bother to change it.
It does not change point about Schrödinger's cat, and how some travelers are much older, than others, since the quantum AI has to operate outside of our space and time to be not affected by any changes.
I mean, we accept that a futuristic status field can save 2 people from an airplane crash, but I have to be high to understand the scientific concept behind the ideas they're using. Yes, I'm a complex person, but that's secondary to the general discussion of this topic.
I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.
Excellent reply and concepts. The best so far.
shareSchrodingers cat is a thought experiment and has nothing to do with time or relativity or any of the above mentioned. It was a simple and flawed way of pointing out the existing flaw in a now defunct scientific theory called the Copenhagen Method. For some reason it is applied to a myriad of philosophical scenarios but has nothing to do with any of them.
The whole point was that a thing absolutely cant be both alive and dead at the same time but that the predominant theory at the time when applied in a rather ham fisted manner technically stated that it was possible(and that therefor the theory was flawed).
The increased lifespan idea might be true but I think that there was also mention in the Marcy reset episode that Trevor was sent back before into his younger self so he could have more time to learn.
Happy birthday to the ground!
Trevor was sent back before into his younger self so he could have more time to learn.
Trevor mentioned that he had been looped back into his own body, but it sounded more like an early feasibility test than a life extension cheat. He's Traveler 115, remember? Right on par with the other VIPs who have come through. He probably pioneered the consciousness transfer technology that made the Traveler program possible.
shareExactly! It was just an early experiment of the technology. He says his much younger consciousness was transferred out and back again...no time travel involved there. He had mentioned to Grace earlier in that same episode that no one could be sent back any further in time than the last traveler because of some time ripple mumbo jumbo. So his experience couldn't have involved time travel.
shareI think what he meant was, basically, that if you send a Traveler back (say a year behind the one before them) you risk unraveling everything from that point forward. Missions over the past year could have their outcomes altered or be completely undone. This would throw the whole master plan into chaos. Sending just one person back five or ten years could screw up all the work they've done to date. In order to prevent this, they keep to an organized timetable, sending each new Traveler at least slightly ahead of the previous one in the destination timeframe.
shareEpisode 11 about 11 minutes in Grace asked Trevor if something doesn't work out then why not go back and try again. His response... "...for some pretty complicated reasons having to do with ripples in space time, we can only go as far back as the arrival point of the most recent traveler. There's no do-overs"
Therefore, he couldn't have been sent back to relive his own life in the time he comes from since that would have locked them out of using the time travel to get back to the 21st century. So he was only referring to a test of the technology that allows a consciousness to be "copied" and put into another host or back to the original host as in his case. He wasn't talking about the time travel aspect. Those are two different technologies.
Time travel can change a lot - when they're setting up the machine who's meant to stop Helios and save Earth, they say that if it works they *themselves* probably won't exist at all. So, imagine that you're trying to manipulate the past. It's definitely hard work, lots of research involved based on a database with information about the past. Then you simply cannot send people back further because maybe they'll change things so much that what the team is doing now will be harmed in any way and all their missions, all their hard work would be lost. That's why you have a limit. If you go back too further you might alter things in such a way that the work of thousands of travellers will be rendered useless or impossible.
shareI just checked ep01 and at about 26 min Trevor confirms on the puter that Traveller 0115 has arrived. So, I guess the highest level are the programmers (double digits) and the next tier is the engineers. I previously thought that their whole team was in the 3000 range.
That pilot was masterful having seen the whole series now.
My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2
I would guess Trevor is at least 100 yrs old. I would assume their life span is longer even though they live underground and don't eat meat or vegetables. Marci has to be old enough to be a doctor, 30ish. MacLaren has to be old enough to handle being a team lead, 40ish. Phillip is unknown but I would guess he is early 30s, he is the most immature but that might be because he is a heroin addict.
shareOh come on everybody, get over the age thing! It's not impropable at all that Trevor would be over 100 years old. Nor is it improbable that he would be fit enough to train with younger people. Medical scientists TODAY say that the person has already been born that will live to be 200 years old. A lot more people live to be 100 and beyond today than just a couple of decades ago, although not all of them are fit enough to school 25-year olds on the tennis court (just one that I know of).
The average life span in the industrialized world has doubled in the last 150 years.
Simultaneously the average age for onset of puberty has dropped 3-4 years. Consequently, we are living longer adult lives.
The statement that Marci has to be at least 30 to be a doctor is based on the premise of 21st century education system. Basic education and medical training could be more efficient in the future, so Marci could just as well be 20. Children would also probably start school at an earlier age in the future since they are developing faster and faster.
by silent_storm_e
Medical scientists TODAY say that the person has already been born that will live to be 200 years old.
Medical scientists TODAY say that the person has already been born that will live to be 200 years old.
Only those with exceptional talents - like Trevor and some of the other VIP Travelers - would merit that treatment.
Actually, it is a problem in the present. If we elevated everyone to first world living standards the planet would fizzle out in a year. If you want to watch a liberal squirm, ask them how increasing every immigrant's carbon footprint 10X over what is was before is not going to have a negative effect on global climate change.
My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2
Maybe there's no physical bodies in the future.