I've not seen Shape of Water, and probably never shall, but I know vaguely what it's about. I had this topic's question pop into my head last night, as I was watching Hellboy 2. What can you folks tell me?
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Nope, well I don't believe so anyway. Two different characters who both happen to be a bit fishy and played by the same actor.
shareThe same (very good) actor? Really? Well, excellent directors often use the same actors again; and I respect del Toro as a director; but if The Shape of Water is merely an outgrowth of the Hellboy
Chronicle, why did this
movie get Academy recognition and Hellboy did not?
It's not an outgrowth of Hell Boy, it is in no way related - apart from the presence of Doug Jones.
In Hell Boy we have a cultured amphibian super-hero in a comic book adaptation, played by Doug Jones. In TSOW we have an apparently primitive, perhaps magical amphibian (or merman?) in an allegorical fairy tale, played by Doug Jones. I don’t see any relationship between the characters or the films.
Thank you for answering my question.
shareNo, this is essentially a prequel to Hellboy. Abe looks like half human, half the fish man from this movie because Elisa and Fish man are his parents. That is why this movie is set in the 50 lies, so the timing is right.
shareI don't think Elisa and Fish Man are Abe's parents, I thought Abe was called "Abe" because he was found on the day that President Abraham Lincoln was assassinated.
So he's the same sort of species as The Asset, but a different and probably unrelated individual, which I thought the film made obvious. He doesn't look much like Abe, he's got a heavier build, different coloration, and the full lips of a male model. If he's played by the same actor, it's because that actor is Del Toro's go-to guy for roles that require extreme prosthetics.
Hello Otter,
Nice to hear from you again since the King Arthur board :)
No, my assertion about Abe is pure conjecture, I admit, and I am not actually a great Hellboy fan or know much about Abe.
I made the assumption because Abe looks like half human, half Fish man, and setting Shape of Water in the 1950ies makes the timing right for him to be their son, doesn't it?
But I don't know; I expressed myself with unwarranted assuredness :)
I thought the setting was the early 1960s?
But yeah, I've seen and liked the "Hellboy" films, and Abe Sapien does look markedly different than The Asset. Because he's smoother and slimmer and so well-spoken, yeah, I suppose it's reasonable to assume that Abe might be a human-Asset hybrid, but he couldn't actually be the offspring if those two. I just don't see any way for Del Toro to have worked that little factoid into the script of a prequel film.
It is he's go to.
Had it a connection. Where's hb? where's hitler? where's the rest of the freaks?
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No. This creature is very, very different from Abe. For one thing, he can't talk. For another, he is much more aggressive than Abe Sapien ever was. Abe Sapien also didn't possess healing powers or super-sharp claws.
Strangely enough, this movie was not inspired by the Hellboy films, despite having Guillermo Del Toro and Doug Jones working together on it. In fact, Del Toro actually explained that this story was inspired by the old, black and white film "The Creature From the Black Lagoon." He watched it as a child, and always wondered what would happen if there was a romance between the creature and the woman he kidnapped. It inspired him years later to write "The Shape of Water." Also, if you look at screenshots from the old film, and pictures of the Amphibious Man from this movie, you'll see where they got the idea for the design of the newer water creature.
Also, if you look closely between Abe Sapien and the Amphibious Man (that's how he's billed in the credits, he never actually got a name), you'll see that Abe is much more humanoid than the Amphibious Man in this movie.
Update after seeing the movie:
Not really. If you compare Abe Sapien to the Amphibious Man, the only things they have in common is the bluish skin coloring, large eyes, and both can breathe water and swim very well.
Abe Sapien is much more humanoid in appearance, can speak clear and perfect English, and is mostly a gentle soul, save for moments he has to help Hellboy fight. He also lacks claws on his fingers. Abe is also not super-strong, which is why he acts as backup for Hellboy, as well as being a well of knowledge to help in fighting supernatural foes. He also is telepathic and can practice psychometry, the ability to touch objects or people and learn everything about them.
The Amphibious Man, while possessing a gentle side that most people don't get to see, is mostly much more savage and primal. He is also a carnivore, and doesn't hesitate to protect himself if need be. In addition to that, he is very strong compared to Abe, and has a healing touch. He can't talk either, save for the sign language Eliza teaches him, though he has other ways of communicating on a very simple level. He is intelligent to a degree, but not as much as Abe.
Thanks to all of you, very much, for giving such wonderful and serious answers to my question. I asked it out of intellectual curiosity and not out of contention, which you all—and this is rare on the other internet—understood, and responded. Hurray for all of you, and, again, thank you. I may very well watch this movie, because of your collective kindness.
Why can’t The whole of the online experience be like this? I see no reason why it can’t. I mean, we just did it!
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