Surprised at the amount of confusion
I found it pretty easy to figure it all out beings there were tons of hints and breadcrumbs through out.
shareI found it pretty easy to figure it all out beings there were tons of hints and breadcrumbs through out.
shareCare to nuance? Or are you just waiting for us to tell you how sharp and awesome you are? ;)
shareWell for starters I noticed a lot of people were confused about who was good and who was bad and I thought it was pretty obvious. The shaman and Japanese man were clearly working together not just because of the pictures but two other things that were in the frame but didn't catch anyone's attention. The mask that Jong-Goo found whilst searching the Japanese mans house and it startled him later on when the shaman walks up to Jong Goos house the woman in white is there and freaks him out so he goes to his place and packs everything up and drives away in the car, in the mess of stuff in his back seat you can see the same mask amongst his stuff. Another similarity would be that both the shaman and Japanese man where the same diaper like cloth. There are other pieces of evidence that go to show the woman in white is good but I don't feel like typing all that lol.
share"Japanese man where the same diaper like cloth"
Do you mean the one in the dreams with the red eyes or the normal one. I always thought they were not the same person.
The one in the dreams is the same guy. The dream where the guy loses his deer and the Japanese man eats it wasn't just a dream because the guy later on recounted the whole story.
shareThe shaman said that he and the japannese are the same: both shamans trying to fight the evil spirits. all the similarities you found can be explained by saying that that is how shamans work: with pictures, masks, diapers etc.
shareThen it wouldn't explain a lot of other things about the shaman and Japanese man. I haven't seen it in a while now to recount everything accurately but I am very confident that the woman and white was good and the shaman and Japanese man were evil. The part where the shaman tells Jong-Goo that the Japanese was also a shaman could be just something to deceive him.
shareI agree. Although, the film wasn't as clear cut as you've made it out to be, I still believe that your opinion is pretty stop on.
Here's why:
Let's begin from the ending first...
So the Shaman (human being turned helper of demon/devil) worked with the devil (Or demon, whichever the audience chooses I personally believe it was a demon), for means of own personally benefit, and/or wealth.
The demon (Or devil) had its own similar interests in achieving what it wanted; in this case to use the sins of man (The policeman) to pursue what it wanted; to destroy a family.
The Woman in White (AKA The one who wanted to counter that demon/devil) wanted to help the policeman, and the village, by getting rid of it. (Via the faith, and/or sins, or lack thereof of the policeman.)
The Policeman (human sinner), wanted to stop whatever it was tormenting his family. Which in turned resulted with his faith being tested and family being slaughtered by the demon/devil.
Questions that I ask: Why didn't the Woman in White help more, or could she?
This seemed to be one of those Job scenarios, where Job was tested by the devil, and/or demon, and essentially resulted in Job asking, "Where are you now, God?...I still believe in you, regardless."
It seems that The Policeman "failed that test."
Yes you're definitely touching on what's probably part of the subtext.
shareI don't think the Shaman was working together with the Japanese man. The photos that he has can be either stolen from Japanese man when he was not at home, or just another set that he did himself. It is possible that the shaman was simply doing the same thing as the Japanese man, but separately. You can see it from similarities of the rituals they did, so the shaman could be just trying to steal the daughter for himself. Sort of turf war between two demons.
An interesting film, leaves us with some questions but I was satisfied by some gruesome visuals and the bleak ending. Two and a half hours and I never got bored and just wanted for it to continue more. Pretty clear indicator how good this movie is.
I agree about the run-time, I never once wanted this to be over, or wrapping up.. This is one of the best movies I've watched in a long time in terms of telling a story..
shareNaw the shaman puked up when he saw the Angel (woman in white) for a start and he had the mask and photos/
The demon was there to kill everyone and take their souls not just the family he wanted innocents to do the dirty work as well!
It also seems that all the sinners survived which is what the devil would want - right?
Great movie though , I agree!
Wish I spoke a bit more Korean though as a lot of tradition and elements get lost in translation - i bet the herb that withered at the end has some sort of Korean religious significance!
Its also not surprising that the Jap is portrayed as evil if you know how Koreans and Chinese etc feel about the Japanese.
Its uncle Frank Kirsty!
Its time to play!
Soon, we will all have special names!
it doesnt really add up for me and it certainly isnt obvious the woman in white was good or an an angel/protector of the village.
shaman warns him to go home, he goes home, the girl is missing, he goes outside to find her and bumps into the woman in white, kid returns home demonicly eating all the *beep* in the fridge and we see a shot of the murder weapon, by this point too late.. plus you see the pink hairband thing too at the feet of the woman, the girl was with her when she was missing from the house and she plays dumb for ages holding him up while the kid slaughters the wife and other inlaw, if she was good she wouldnt have acted in that way. The shaman was clearly killing the devil during the ritual, if they were working together why would he do that? the woman in white appears as the japanese guy recovers and it seems like she "kills" the japanese man with a large rock and chucks his body in front of the truck clearly the actions of some benevolent entity? B*tch then has the gall to blame it on the policeman and say it was his sin thats why the daughters sick
Well she was dressed in white for a start - always a good colour for those pure of heart!
And she was throwing the stones - "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
That was when it clicked for me!
Its uncle Frank Kirsty!
Its time to play!
Soon, we will all have special names!
Well she was dressed in white for a start - always a good colour for those pure of heart!
And she was throwing the stones - "He who is without sin cast the first stone".
That was when it clicked for me!
Who knows maybe the director had totally different ideas - you never know with different cultures!
Its uncle Frank Kirsty!
Its time to play!
Soon, we will all have special names!
I totally agree with blueyoke, to me the white chick was the mastermind and the japanese, another shaman who was being possessed. he clearly had struggles with the evil force growing inside him.( waterfall meditation scene, crying scene when he was being followed,etc). the girl in white later got him killed so that the daemon finally gets a true physical form. keep in mind that the white chick also lied to the policeman about seeing ppl getting killed by the japanese.
the young shaman despite how the movie tries to portray him as a fraud was the good guy all along(remember this is a movie where everything is different than it meets the eye), he was clearly hurting the possessed shaman during his ritual,(if it was the white girl, why did the hurting stopped when the ritual was interrupted?) he warned the policeman about going back to her daughter as soon as possible when her girl was getting ready to go on a killing spree, he warned the policeman about interrupting the ritual and the possible backfire which is what happens later in the film,etc.
do you guys seriously think that a good force would cause the evil throw up blood?
*Spoiler*
I agree with blueyoke. There isn't enough information to conclude that the woman in white is good.
I also agree with what other posters say here that the Taoist shaman was also as ambiguous. In fact, the photographs thing seems to be a moment of opportunity for him as a shaman, paralleled with the Japanese Man taking a photograph of the priest.
The only certain thing in the relationship between the Japanese Man, the Taoist and the woman in white is that both men fear her immensely. However, she has no similar effect on other humans.
There are four things that seemed intriguing to me:
1. The woman in white is present during Hyo-jin's transformation. She also implied to Jong-goo that she was present during another killing earlier on, the one where an old lady suffered the most. (She lies to him about the Japanese Man sucking the blood of him victims, though.) This makes me lean towards the conclusion that she is related to death, which would explain her constant presence around the Japanese Man (for he is a ghost, as it is repeated many times). It might also explain the Taoist's reaction when he came close to her.
2. Jong-goo's colleague went through the transformation without us noticing him being a target for the Japanese Man. No belongings of him in the secret room.
3. Building on that, the Japanese Man was in fact so focused on Chung-bae, the man who comes back from the dead during Jong-goo's raid with his friends. He never appears to be actively targeting Hyo-jin at any point of the film's running time. Even in the cave, he wasn't doing a ritual like the one before, but rather 'recuperating' in a sense. In fact, the only things that link him and Hyo-jin are her shoe, which was taken away from him, and when she nodded to her father when he asked if she'd met him. So it is more likely that he wasn't the one going after her at the end.
4. Hyo-jin became ill when she contacted the Japanese Man off screen. She became worse when the Taoist did his rituals, even though the Japanese Man was dying. When he later died, she became better. Then she met the woman in white, became worse and went on to kill her family. She had contact with all three characters, and became worse after each time.
From these four things it is not illogical to conclude that the Japanese Man, the Taoist, and the woman in white are all competing in the village. They are all trying to outdo one another, and they use innocents to try to kill one another whenever possible. I guess that would make all three of them evil.
[Edit]
I have watched it again the other day. There are two very brief scenes that partially altered my view.
When the Japanese Man falls off the cliff and sees the woman in white nearby, he actually musters his strength and chases her (scene 1). A few minutes later, the Taoist is looking from the window and mentions how Jong-goo is an idiot who took the bait. The very next scene is of the woman in white looking over as Jong-goo is finishing off the Japanese Man, as if she is the one who'd cast the bait for him: she gave him the Japanese Man to kill, and thus commit a punishable sin.
The other thing that caught my attention is Hyo-jin's drawing of the Japanese Man's true form prior to her first symptoms.
All put together would make the sequence as follows:
1. The Japanese Man shows his true form to a person. The person develops symptoms.
2. A shaman is called upon to intervene. It back fires, though, and symptoms get worse. If a shaman is not called upon, symptoms still get worse.
3. The woman in white encounters the person for a last time, turning the person and their entire household into a trap for the Japanese Man. She is the one responsible for the massacres.
Conclusion: the Japanese Man wants a person. The woman in white uses the person and the person's family to try to get to the Japanese Man. The Taoist uses the person to try to get to the Japanese Man, and get rich in the process, since he is seemingly the only human party here. All of them are evil.
Are they in it together? Maybe. That would explain why the woman in white and the Taoist are trying to kill the Japanese Man without incriminating themselves: to set themselves free.
I've re watched this movie numerous times and have researched and come to the same conclusion. I could assure you that the women in white is good for a 100% fact using evidence but I'm too tired and lazy to do that so just take my word for it. I still don't see how people are finding ways to be confused with this movie it's all shown in the movie from in your face to subtle hints. My understanding of the movie is the only one that checks out 100%. I've rewatched with others views of who is bad and who was good and it just doesn't check out.
shareThe girl is a christ-like figure. In fact when the deacon calls out 'my lord', it cuts to her.
Christ told Peter that he'd deny Him 3 times before the cock crowed. I think the rooster crowing 3 times, and the hero's failure to wait, is meant as a kind of oblique reference to that.
She doesn't interfere - she just warns and lets the folly of men be their doom, same as god supposedly does in his conflict with the devil.
Whether these are meant to be Christian figures is irrelevant. They fit the archetype.
I think that some people are missing that there has always been a war between God and the Devil by proxy. Through influence. So, the battle was to see who could convince the main character to follow them. They couldn't directly interfere, so they just bused their influence to change the outcome through the actions of the main character. The Devil obviously wins this round.
share