The good news for Charlie's Angels was that it had way more bang for the production budget buck overseas in comparison to Ford V Ferrari. The bad news for CA is that it did not meet expectations domestically:
Charlie's Angels box office opening weekend:
Domestic: $8.6 million
International: $19.3 million
Worldwide: $27.9 million
Production budget: $48 million
Ford V Ferrari box office opening weekend:
Domestic: $31 million
International: $21.4 million
Worldwide: $52.4 million
Production budget: $97.6 million
Ford V Ferrari's production cost is about twice that of Charlie's Angels, and yet CA grossed just a couple million less than FVF internationally. FVF grossed over half of its production budget if you consider worldwide gross on opening weekend. So did CA, which has a worldwide gross of $27.9 million. Of course, it should be stated that it's more profitable for a studio when a film grosses more domestically. But that being said, I still find it interesting that a 69.2% of CA's worldwide gross on opening weekend came from overseas box office. Similar thing happened with "Terminator: Dark Fate" which had a whopping 75.7% of its worldwide gross come from overseas. So even though TDF bombed domestically, it currently has a worldwide gross of over $233 million in just two weeks.
Heck, CA grossed more in China ($9.54 million) than it did here in the U.S.! So thus begs the question: Did CA fail to meet box office expectations because US moviegoers don't embrace the "woke" subculture that many on this board are claiming is the reason--or is it more because US moviegoers are becoming increasing more fickle? Sure, the Marvel Cinematic Universe continues to churn out one billion dollar franchise after the other--yet for most other films, earning back a film's production budget at the box office is becoming increasingly more daunting--well at least here in the U.S. Thus, this could partly explain the demise of medium budget films. This appears especially the case for CA which has a narrow target audience, one-quadrant as the major trade publications describe it, making it even more difficult to grab market share/slice of the box office pie. Hopefully CA develops some legs over the next two weeks and puts in a decent showing. reply share
I think you could put it down a to few things perhaps,
1/ People sick of re-boots, remakes, franchises.
2/ No one actually wanted this film to begin with.
3/ The women are unattractive and seem kind of dull in comparison to the original series and the 2000's films.
4/ People are sick of Woke/SJW nonsense and it would seem that even the SJW crowd don't watch the films that are made to appease them.
5/ Less and less people going to the cinema now because of other options and also because a lot of modern movies suck?
On your first bullet point I would have to say that it's very rare to have a film that's totally original. The vast majority of films either pay homage to previous films in its genre or borrow heavily from them.
On the second point, gauging the amount of interest in having a reboot prior to its release is very difficult to pinpoint--the reason why I used the word "fickle".
On the third, this one is definitely subjective, as far as taste and preference. From my POV, the angels from the original television series were world-class beauties (i.e., Farrah Fawcett, Jaclyn Smith, Cheryl Ladd). The funny thing is, I guess it's because I oftentimes find brunettes more attractive, I consider Kate Jackson as the prettiest. As far as the 2000's films, I wouldn't consider any of them to be classic beauties in the strictest sense of the word. Sure, I consider Drew Barrymore and Lucy Liu as cute, while Cameron Diaz is the prettiest of that trio. But the same could be said of Naomi Scott, who has nearly flawless facial bone structure, while Ella Balinska has the face of a fashion model and the body of a supermodel, if you ask me. And with regards to Kristen, she's one of the faces of iconic fashion house Chanel, so to claim she's "unattractive" would fly in the face of what the modeling world considers attractive. I made this video edit of Kristen, Naomi and Ella, to showcase what I consider to be attractive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp03-pdygQM
The fourth point is perhaps the most perplexing and difficult to put a finger on, so I'll leave it at that for now.
And as far as the fifth point, admittedly, I watch tons of films each year, on average one per day, mostly through sites such as Netflix, while I don't often go to watch movies in a theater. So yes, this is a major reason why many films struggle to earn back their budget at the box office, as there are so many viewing options. Of course the exception is the films that look exceptional in theaters, such as from the MCU, DCEU, and Star Wars film franchises, continue to do exceedingly well at the box office, because these are films than many feel must be seen on the silver-screen.
I think it is wrong to blame or accuse the audience of anything to be honest. Films are a product just like anything else and if you want people to give you their money you have to produce something they want to watch. This is going to crossover a few of the points I make but before I do, I do agree with you not much is entirely original anymore. That said for the past 30 or so years remakes and reboots, franchises in general have grown out of control and I think people's interest is waning. Just my opinion but you can look at the films which have bombed for yourself, this being one of them.
That said a lot of these reboots, remakes, don't pay homage to the original creations either. They tend to make a mockery of them.
Taste is subjective, the original Angels (all of them not just original cast) were all beautiful. The 2000's films, I always liked Drew, Cameron was nice and Lucy I never got into but she looked the part all the same. It was also a fun film, despite their looks I would have walked away if it was SJW crap being shoved in my face. The 3 women in this one, I don't care for, just my opinion and I actually don't find a lot of what the modeling world considers beautiful to be well beautiful so I don't put much stock in their opinion.
My 4th point is probably the most important, these films just keep tanking....
I don't think it is because it is a female cast, CA was always female that is the point. It is the SJW nonsense and propaganda that puts people off.
I don't think it is because it is a female cast, CA was always female that is the point. It is the SJW nonsense and propaganda that puts people off.
One of the primary rules of screenwriting I've garnered over the past few years is to avoid being too preachy, regardless of the subject matter, allowing the audience to decide for themselves what is right or wrong. So I would agree that this is one of the major flaws of this film. Religious films almost always make this mistake, a primary reason why I believe such films in this genre don't do well at the box office either. Another important rule in screenwriting is to show, not tell. So even if the film is primarily about feminism, it would be much better for the actors to show examples of feminism rather than spend most of the time preaching feminist ideology. Still another screenwriting rule--the screenplay must have a powerful moral premise. This film also lacked any deep-seated convictions other that women triumphing over men. A young, impressionable female viewer may take this in the same vein as good triumphing over evil, thus equating women as good and that men are basically incompetent or even evil. And ultimately, the screenplay must tell an unforgettable story that will stand the test of time.
And to help prove this point, there have been several films about female social justice warriors which are among the best films made during the past few decades, which I believe appeal to both men and women alike because of avoiding being too preachy. Take for example Emily Blunt in "Edge of Tomorrow" and "Sicario", Jessica Chastain in "Zero Dark Thirty", Jada Pinkett in "Set It Off", Uma Thurman in "Kill Bill", Julia Roberts in "Erin Brokovich", and Charlize Theron in "Mad Max: Fury Road". If you go further back in movie history, there's Sigourney Weaver in "Alien", and Geena Davis and Susan Sarandon in "Thelma & Louise", to mention just a few. reply share
That's interesting about the screenwriting rules as I have noticed the opposite. Particularly in TV shows characters will make speeches that have nothing to do with the premise quite often as well as wearing TV shirts with slogans etc.
Religious films have the same problem in that they divide people. Even if you follow a particular religion you may not see things the same way as the movie makers do etc.
Sicario is an interesting example. I recall the IMDB page at the time with some people complaining that she was too weak or in other words not a Rey who became a superstar. I thought it was rather realistic and the character was chosen specifically because she was inexperienced and from memory they wanted her to fail. I like those sorts of real and multi faceted characters.
I love older films and women in a lot of the old westerns and film noir are actually far tougher than the Woke princesses we have now. And more importantly they didn't walk around saying how tough they thought they were they just got on with it.
Exactly, regarding the subtext of the characters, in that what they say often has no correlation to what's going on in the story or even how they feel at the moment. A talented screenwriter knows that the text is not the subtext.
One of my all-time fave directors Alfred Hitchcock once said, "When the screenplay has been written and the dialogue has been added, we're ready to shoot." In other words, it's vastly superior to show a character acting it out rather than merely spewing out dialogue.
Sicario is an interesting example. I recall the IMDB page at the time with some people complaining that she was too weak or in other words not a Rey who became a superstar. I thought it was rather realistic and the character was chosen specifically because she was inexperienced and from memory they wanted her to fail. I like those sorts of real and multi faceted characters.
And yet another major rule in screenwriting: The lead character must undergo major changes in his or her life. In many cases, the more extreme the metamorphosis the better. After all, this will translate to more layered characters and force the actor to exhibit tremendous acting range. Naomi Scott's character made a bit of a transformation from her first scene to her last in Charlie's Angels, but not quite enough to make a lasting impression. Elizabeth Banks should have spent a bit more time developing her character into a muti-faceted one like you mentioned.
I think those are all fair points except number 4 Forsaken. What makes this woke/SJW? Honest question is there something particularly different about this version that makes you say that about it? Keep in mind I only realised this was an actual movie today. I’ve been ignoring it in the trending panel thinking on the basis of that appalling poster art that it must be some shitty tv remake.
I haven't seen the film but from what I have read the SJW/Woke thing is strong in the film. My point was in a way that I just assume these films are going to be SJW based on the very good chance that they will be so. You can tell in part just from Kristen's hairdo and the two women holding hands that they are hinting towards a lesbian subtext which tends to go part and parcel with the SJW theme.
Ah, ok. Personally I'd prefer to wait until I see it before sticking any labels on it, and since I have less than no interest in seeing this, that won't be anytime soon!
SJW does seem to be the go-to pejorative term these days, used to dismiss anything that isn't straight-up traditional conservative fair. No offence to you mate, but I am SO sick of it. People don't need to engage critical thought now, they just throw out an SJW here or there and they think their point is validated. The inference is anything labelled as SJW has no artistic merit and isn't worthy of consideration, simply because it might include a minority or have a message of female empowerment or question conservative ideals.
No-one cried SJW when Lucy Liu was cast in the first CA film, but you can bet your bottom dollar that we would be inundated with the acronym if an asian person took a role previously played by a white woman today.
I don't tend to bother watching films I know or suspect I won't like so I can only speculate and shoot the breeze about it but I think I am pretty certain it is SJW heavy.
I am sick of the SJW stuff too which is probably why I talk about it here and there. Hard to talk about a film like this without talking about the elephant in the room. Also the thread topic is why the film failed and I think we are seeing SJW-itis is the usual suspect.
CA has always been about 3 women so no problem there but as I mentioned in another post on this board somewhere. I would be just as bored watching 3 men strut around talking about "man power" and pushing agendas. There are a lot of older films, particularly WW2 morale movies I can watch because the agenda is so obvious. So it works both ways for me.
I think Drew's version got away with it because SJW stuff wasn't that common back then and also her films were actually fun.
CA just isn't the IP to get people to go to the theaters. FvF isn't either but it has the charm of being a film driven by actors, no pun intended.
Pretty much all of CA's praise is coming from low expectations. People are expecting a dud but getting an okay spy movie that doesn't disappoint. The problem is, if you're not expecting it to be good then you probably aren't going to see it at the theater.
Also, production budgets don't necessarily mean more box office receipts. Thats more for advertising budgets, and I don't believe either film got blockbuster level ad budgets.
There's your other problem. Like it or not people will have pre-conceived ideas about things often based on what they have seen/heard before. I didn't even know CA was a thing until a few days ago but seeing the poster for it my pre-conceived ideas are unattractive women (to me), Woke propaganda, women don't look capable of being tough girls. Overall I'm not interested and therefore wouldn't spend any money to watch it.
FvF on the other hand, even though I'm not a sports fan I would give it a go because it seems like a normal kind of film, which might actually be fun and not punch me in the face with bullshit propaganda.
I'm sure anti "woke" culture is a thing to some degree but most importantly its just not an IP that people have ever flocked to. The reason they never made a trilogy for the 2000 movie is because its sequel failed to make a profit.
Pretty much all of CA's praise is coming from low expectations. People are expecting a dud but getting an okay spy movie that doesn't disappoint. The problem is, if you're not expecting it to be good then you probably aren't going to see it at the theater.
Also, production budgets don't necessarily mean more box office receipts. Thats more for advertising budgets, and I don't believe either film got blockbuster level ad budgets.
My first impression concerning the film's trailers was they seemed to be promoting a film that wasn't as funny as the 2000s films. Why weren't more comedic clips included instead focusing primarily on the action, I asked myself. Heck, the second trailer even seemed to be promoting the singers of the theme song rather than the lead actors themselves.
But that being said, when I finally got to watch CA on the big screen, it did not disappoint. In a review I posted earlier, it appeared more like a spy thriller rather than an action comedy like the 2000s films, and I gave this film 3 stars out of 4. So I actually enjoyed watching this film because of its plot twists, nonstop spy thrills, villains who were quite evil and some humor interspersed. Unfortunately, for the target audience, females in the 13-39 age range, I'm guessing that many in this demographic probably didn't find it as entertaining as I did, while the vast majority of moviegoers in the other 3 quadrants didn't go to see it like you mentioned because it simply wasn't their cup of tea. Perhaps Elizabeth Banks who produced, directed, acted and wrote the screenplay for this film, had her talent spread out a bit too thin. I consider her to be proficient and talented in all four arenas, but perhaps by doing all four simultaneously, she was a bit in over her head on this project. But overall, it was still a good movie, just not as good as it could have been for the reasons stated earlier. reply share
Banks’ tweet: “It reinforces a stereotype in Hollywood that men don’t go see women do action movies”
That’s funny coming from Banks. She seems to have conveniently forgotten that she herself appeared in JLaw’s “Hunger Games” - a female-led action franchise which was popular with everyone, including even male viewers.
But KStew is no JLaw. And Elizabeth Banks is no Gary Ross - who, as director, managed to make even an all-female Ocean’s 8 quite profitable (ca. $300m gross).
Because Ross was not clueless like Banks - he knew what ATTRACTS both female and male viewers into the cinema. He insisted on likable actual star-power in his film (Sandra Bullock, Cate Blanchett, Anne Hathaway, Rihanna). Now that’s a fun, appealing cast. If that were the cast for Charlie’s Angels 2019 - it would at least not have been such a humiliating flop.
Alas, Banks thought “empowerment” sells by itself - but it doesn’t. Even females aren’t interested in paying for that. If most of the female cinema-going audience (50% of the total cinema audience) had turned up, the film would have grossed much more than a measly $8 million opening weekend. So the writing is on the wall: both male and overall female demographic groups had no interest in this and skipped it.
Charlie’s Angels earned second place with $19.43 million on 25,276 screens in 41 markets. The film’s biggest market was China, where it earned second place with $9.54 million on 18,500 screens. Its best market was Indonesia, where it earned first place with $2.88 million on 1,122. It did well in both Australia with $1.28 million on 285 screens and in Russia with $1.13 million on 1,409. Or to be more precise, it did well, when compared to its debut here. The film clearly has a stronger international draw than its domestic draw, but it will need to continue to overperform and have long legs if it wants to break even any time soon.
Earlier today, Charlie's Angels surpassed the $30 million worldwide gross mark after having a decent showing today (Tuesday). So there's still a bit of hope that this film will at least hit the $48 million (production budget) mark for worldwide gross. I say this because CA doesn't face lots of competition this weekend, or even Thanksgiving weekend for that matter, as far as new theatrical releases which target the same audience, as no major releases over the next two weekends are in the same combination of sub-genre and MPAA/MPA PG-13 rating. So it may come down to whether or not, female moviegoers in the 13-39 demographic come out in force to support CA and give it some legs. Unfortunately for CA, the smart money says the lion's share of box office revenue from this particular demographic will go to the animated feature Frozen 2.
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The good news for Charlie's Angels was that it had way more bang for the production budget buck overseas in comparison to Ford V Ferrari. The bad news for CA is that it did not meet expectations domestically
Ford vs Ferrari has no release in China. Probably the release hasn't been allowed by the Chinese government.
Taking into account that China is a big part of Charlie's Angels international box office, the analysis falls down. You would need to take off Chinese box office to compare both movies.
Getting some conclusion about moviegoers based in numbers heavily influenced by a decision taken by the Chinese government is... not very serious, to say the least.
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Personally I don’t think CA didn’t do well as the woke go broke crowd wants to take credit for. I still think it came down to star power. Put Emily Blunt, Anne Hathaway, ScarJo or Alicia Vikander it would have probably done better. Just like FvsF wouldn’t have done as well without Bale Damon combo.