Well that was one of the best twists i've seen since LOST ended - The Good Place (2016) Discussion

[–] Ayababi 8 years ago

I KNOW! Now that's how you do a twist.

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[–] LuigiVFiji 8 years ago

Yeah, it immediately made think of LOST, too! Especially how they'll have to find each other in a different (after)life again. Hope it'll get another season! And I'd love to see more of the "real" Eleanor, her change after the reveal was brilliant.

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[–] Sluggr-3 8 years ago

or Sixth Sense. I'm in a bit of a quandry at the moment, because another show recently had an incredible twist, but if I say the name, then people will be expecting the twist and won't get invested in what they are being shown because they'll know that it all has to be disregarded once the twist is revealed. So basically, even saying that there is a twist is a huge spoiler even if the details of the twist aren't revealed.

My Chimp DNA seems to have lost its password temporarily. Sluggr-2

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

Use the spoiler tag cause i wanna know which show you are alluding to

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[–] blust2 8 years ago

This is Us. (William is gay.)

IMO The Good Place's twist is much better.

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[–] BrainGirl78 8 years ago

That was told before the December break, so how are you spoiling anything. Also, he sees sexuality as fluid.

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

Well i only watched two episodes of This Is Us - it just seemed like it was just doing twists for the sake of it with no merit and the characters weren't clicking with me - maybe when the hype has died down, i may give it another go - but i honestly don't see what's so good about it - there have been a ton of teen/family dramas over the years that deserve the recognition more than This Is Us IMHO

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[–] inuimari 8 years ago

You're right. The creator seems to have contacted Lost creator Lindelof for some tips in advance.

‘The Good Place’ Boss Mike Schur: The Model in My Head is ‘Lost’
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/the-good-place-kristen-bell-ted-danson-michael-schur-1201828975/

I like to read the reviews on AV club in general but they go into details how Lindelof prob. used the mistakes he learned from Lost to create a better twist.

http://www.avclub.com/tvclub/good-place-ends-outstanding-first-season-its-most--248702

I LOVED Lost season 1 (gave up watching Lost mid-season 3. Tried watching season 6 but couldn't stomach it) and the flashbacks were a welcome gimmick for sure. Lost did change a lot of TV show narratives and there is def. a marked difference between before and after Lost (i.e., more multi-character stories, emphasis on the characters' pasts, twists that take a while to pay off).

Btw, I love Buffy/Angel as well. I was wondering which other shows had a great twist and
Cordelia being evil in Angel season 4 came to my mind. However, I watched Buffy and Angel after I knew what it was about so I knew about that twist :/ Knowing the twist, it kinda is obvious. I still love the reveal though. As for Buffy, I wish I could have watched it without knowing nothing about it cuz Angel turning evil is another major twist as well as who the *beep* is Dawn?
Lindsay coming back was another great twist in Angel but the cast list in imdb kinda spoiled that for me as well :S

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

It's crazy - i only just found out about Schur modelling TGP after LOST because i read the wikipedia page to figure out if it was only 13 episodes - then i began realising how similar the shows where - even going as far as having other characters appear in the episode-centric characters' flashbacks (just like LOST) - and obviously the cliffhangers

As for your opinion on LOST - i 10000000000000000% disagree - it's nmy favourite show so i take offence - but opinions and all - although i do find it odd that people would stop watching it and then return to the final season expecting to understand what's going on - oh and btw, by not watching the rest of season 3 - you missed the best twist in TV history - and missed some of the best episodes of LOST overall post season 3
Although i will applaud you for realising how influential LOST was - the finale ruined peoples opinions on the show going so far as to saying it wasn't groundbreaking or influential - i think Game of Thrones is the most overrated show in TV history - but i still think it's groundbreaking - i may not enjoy it most of the time, but i don't ignore it's cultural impact

As for Buffy/Angel - Cordelia was meant to be the true big bad in the season, but Charisma Carpenter's pregnancy hindered that, which is why Jasmine was the true big bad
There were hints about Dawn starting in season 3, as well as hints about Joyce's and Buffy's fates in season 4

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[–] inuimari 8 years ago

Ha ha, sorry about offending ya. But it's so intriguing how we can all have different opinions.
The problem I had were the dumb deaths. Shannon was the worst but Ana-Lucia and Eko? Although Eko wanted to be written out, it's just silly for the actor to join a high-profile drama to be asked to written out. I never got the Ana-Lucia hate either. That's not the only reason why I didn't like post season 1 Lost but the storyline just seemed a bit more sloppy to me.

I went back to season 6 and the reason why I stopped watching was not because I didn't get it (because I did follow the story). The reason why I stopped watching was when they started killing off non-main castaways. In the beginning of the series, each death, even the ones with no name ("Joanna, the swimmer") was a big deal. But then they got rid of the castaways just to get rid of the extras? Also, they were really getting rid of characters quick. That being said, I love how the show ended and man! That has to be one of the most depressing series finale.

GoT wouldn't have been made without Lost for sure.

Yeah, I wish Angel Season 4 was different for sure :S

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

None of the deaths were dumb at all

Shannon's death was needed to bring the tailies together with the main LOSTies and for the tailies to have conflict with the main LOSTies - (and also the island was done with her)

Ana Lucia's death was necessary because it was made to look like Ben did it so Michael could get his son back (Libby was a total accident) - it was development for character and his redemption arc in season 4 (which you would have seen if you continued on) - also - Michelle Rodriguez was 1) only signed on for one season and 2) involved in a DUI (along with Cynthia Watros who played Libby) - oh and BTW i loved Ana

Eko's death was a result of Adewale leaving the show - he wanted to go back to England and be with his family, staying in Hawaii didn't suit him - the character was meant to be very important in the grander scheme of things, but this is why i hate when people have a go at LOST for not being planned out, things change - actors leave, showrunners leave, other writers leave, not everything can be set in stone when writing TV shows
In terms of storylines - Eko's death can be explained in both the episode he died in and also later on in the series when you have all of the puzzle pieces - The Smoke Monster wanted him to repent for his sins (drug dealing, murder) but he explains that he did it all for his brother and that he does not regret it, this angers the smoke monster whom then in turn kills him - the smoke monster is revealed to be a mysterious man in black who believe all men are corruptible - and Eko is one of those men

Disagree about the final season's lack of important character deaths too - did you not watch The Candidate??? one of the best episodes of LOST

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[–] inuimari 8 years ago

Hey thanks for the reply.

By dumb, I meant not in terms of the plot development but in terms of feasibility. Creepy kid tells Shannon to stay quiet and she shouts and follows him? Michael was told only to bring Ben back and couldn't think of ways to do this without killing Ana? It was just really hard to believe.

Glad you liked Ana as well. The hate toward that character was intense and I woulnd't be surprised if it hurt Michelle Rodriguez' character, lol.

I guess you don't know what it's like until you actually go with it but Adewale is an idiot for signing up if he later decided he wanted to leave the role of a lifetime. I could seriously hear the writers going "we have to get rid of Eko, now, somehow" in Eko's final episode. It is not the writers' fault but stuff like this def. hurt the show.

That being said, I'd say Lost was def. the first TV series in which the plot changed due to what the people were saying online. Sometimes the writers made a good decision and other times, they made poor choices.... like Paolo and Nikki :S

I didn't write "the lack of important character deaths too ". What I didn't like about the final season was how quickly they were getting rid of the survivors, including the background castaways. There was one episode where they got rid of all extras all at once. The show progresses as it goes but considering the amount of crap they went through to survive, I just didn't like that development. It's like watching a castaway film (think Alive or Open Water) only to watch the survivors get killed. This is why I didn't like it.

Btw, the writers should def. answer some unanswered question and let us know what their initial plans were. What was the deal with Libby!? lol

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

Again i totally disagree

The fact that you called Walt a creepy kid already explains why she would scream - and it has been semi-confirmed that creepy ghost Walt was in fact the Smoke Monster whom led Shannon to her death - the logistics of her death is something i call a TV death - not everything has to be realistic, if you're watching LOST (or any show really) for realism then i honestly don't know why you watch it in the first place

As explained in the season 2 finale, Michael came up with the plan to kill Ana there and then, when he got the instructions to free Ben, he wasn't thinking 'oh, i could kill one of the my friends and blame it on Ben' - it was a spare of the moment deal, he framed Ben for the killing (again, Libby was a total accident) and shot himself to make it look like Ben overpowered Ana, took the gun, killed her and shot Michael in the shoulder - it wasn't the most intricate plan, but he was a desperate man - as evident in Three Minutes - it's all laid out for you in the show - sorry but that was not a dumb death - Shannon may have been dumb - but Ana's death wasn't in the slightest - Michael was a desperate man who in one moment decided to kill Ana and frame Ben, Libby was collateral damage - it's as simple as that

As for Eko - again, i agree, Adewale was a fool to leave a steady job - but if you miss your family you can't help that - it's just a good thing that they had the Eko vs the Monster thing set up in The 23rd Psalm rather than shoehorning it into his final episode with no reasoning - it made sense

Nikki and Paolo was the only thing i can think of that was changed due to fan backlash - give me another example please

Sorry but again i disagree about the survivors dying too quick - episode 14 'The Candidate' was the first episode that had main characters dying - and three of the main characters fell in that episode

There was one episode where they got rid of all extras all at once

That didn't happen in season 6 :/ - there was an episode in season 5 that killed all of the extras with flaming arrows - the only other example of this is episode 6 - Sundown - where the Smoke Monster massacres the temple folk - none of those characters were the original survivors (extras) from season 1 - those where part of the temple arc - which where 'new' extras

Libby's past is explained - she lost her husband to an unknown illness, she sells her boat to Desmond (which was her husbands and was named after her) - then during the interim she had a mental breakdown over losing her husband and was admitted to the Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute - which also had a patient we all know and love - Hurley

give me other 'unanswered' questions hahaha

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[–] inuimari 8 years ago

What, that's it!? Libby was in the mental institution because of her husband's death!? I assumed that the writers were planning for more!!! lol I mean, it can't be just that, right? lol

Well, there's a thing called suspension of disbelief and you'd still expect the island peeps to act like real people (more or less). I just found those deaths unrealistic. Plus I love Maggie Grace (Shannon) :p He he

And it seems like I was talking about Season 5 about the fire arrow deaths, lol. That was a lame copout.

Lost just seemed to be the first show were the writers really went through the online message boards. It's the small things like Hurley's walkman with (seemingly) unending battery power. It could have just been a coincidence but I remember people on the IMDB board felt that same.

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

It's the small things like Hurley's walkman with (seemingly) unending battery power.

Wow - really???????? that's your evidence of them checking message boards??? come on

plus the battery did die on him in episode 17 of season 1 (....In Translation) - it's not stated how many times Hurley listened to it or how many pairs of batteries Hurley found in the wreckage - surely you can suspend your disbelief over something so minute right????? don''t tell me you're that petty when watching TV shows hahahaha

Lost just seemed to be the first show were the writers really went through the online message boards.

Plus that is ALL speculation - you have NO evidence for this :)

What, that's it!? Libby was in the mental institution because of her husband's death!? I assumed that the writers were planning for more!!! lol I mean, it can't be just that, right? lol

You moan about realism yet think that's far fetched??? you do know this can happen right??? people have mental breakdowns when losing someone - it happens

And it seems like I was talking about Season 5 about the fire arrow deaths, lol. That was a lame copout.

How would you get rid of tons of extras without it being 'lame' - this is the season with a time-traveling island - i think the logistics of the deaths should not be under scrutiny - and can i just say - they were F'n awesome deaths :)

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[–] inuimari 8 years ago

don''t tell me you're that petty when watching TV shows hahahaha

Translation: I'm offended by another person's view so I'm gonna mock it even though I don't understand it.

By realism, I meant the character's reaction.
And I'll stand by what I said. Lost made a point of showing Hurley's battery running out. Shows before Lost wouldn't have done that. This may or may not have been in reaction to the message board's comments about "when will Hurley's batteries run out." However, Lost did adopt some lingos that the online forum members have used (i..e., "Tailies"). I don't remember all the details of the show that started back in 2004 but I was simply relaying what others were saying as well. It's not rocket science.

Plus that is ALL speculation - you have NO evidence for this :)

Isn't that what I've been saying? No *beep* sherlock.

And if you wanna talk about realism, a person who is actually seeing and interacting with a fictional being has a serious case of mental illness. Libby will not be interred in the same place as Hurley at all.

It just seems like you got triggered over another person having a different opinion over a TV show, which is just silly.

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[–] buffy1234515 8 years ago

Sorry but none of your evidence is founded mate - end of story - you do know that damon and carlton actually spoke to fans right? the mere mention of the word tailies does not mean they are reading the message boards - wow you are so retarded

It has nothing to do with being butthurt that you are picking holes in LOST - it is that your gripes with LOST are so minute - i'd understand if you didn't get the ending, or thought the creation of the smoke monster was the worst idea ever - but you're griping about Hurley's walkman batteries, Libby ending up in the same Mental Institute as Hurley (when it has been said time and time again throughout the show that it was destiny that these people found each other)

And the fact that you have a totally unfounded argument that the writers read the message boards to answer Hurley's battery problem and things like that

you're grasping at straws here mate

the only indication of this is the total dislike of Nikki and Paolo which could have easily been read through social media rather than a dorky message board where all the writers would see is hate

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[–] BrokenDreamer 8 years ago

Well, this now explains why Drew Goddard was chosen to direct the pilot episode and serve as an Executive Producer. He was a writer and producer during the first two seasons of Lost, so he would have some valuable input. He also wrote for Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel, so getting him involved was a smart move on Schur's part.

Oh, and he directed a movie called The Cabin In The Woods, which greatly qualified him for this. Those who know that movie would agree that it deconstructs the horror genre in a similar way to how The Good Place comments on sitcoms.

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[–] fakeslashdash6 8 years ago

To be honest, I didn't see this particular ending coming, but it was close enough.

It was clear they weren't really good people. I just didn't think that Michael was the bad one.
I thought the ending would be that we find out that Michael is like the loser of the angel club and that's why everyone in the "good place" are actually terrible people that were dumped on him by other angles.

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[–] Jennie_Portrait 8 years ago

It was clear they weren't really good people. I just didn't think that Michael was the bad one. I thought the ending would be that we find out that Michael is like the loser of the angel club and that's why everyone in the "good place" are actually terrible people that were dumped on him by other angles.

I was thinking in that direction too. Sort of like Michael's little village was the "Island of Misfit Toys" of the afterlife.

___________________________________
Never say never...

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[–] gabrieltosh 8 years ago

I guess being stuck in the cage with sam and lucifer all that time took its toll now he's even worse

You must die in order to live.

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[–] debrecenisrac38 8 years ago

Things were off about them, but I chalked that up to mistakes made by the system.

I thought it was cleverly done, that the real and stolen Janet was unaware of not belonging there, Mindy St.Claire was genuinely in the medium place, Janet was still allowed an authorized to use the train, Michael showed no signs of actually being evil, even though after The one I love I should have thought about the possibility. The 4 characters being a misery to others and themselves was presented as a system malfunction.

I really do hope there will be a second season, not just because of the cliffhanger, but also because of there being a trend about Eleanor: she was only the meanest on her birthdays, that she got used to being forgotten by others, but her crashing the Quinçenera had really shown in connection to her legal emancipation, that she does really care. As such, Michael will never be able to beat her, as deep down she really is a good person. Much of her corruption came after being let down by figures in her life she would normally look up to, and those who have never been human can't understand that.

On a side note, I really hope it won't get the Selfie treatment, I loved that show, it managed to tackle themes usually not present in a sitcom, but executive meddling killed it.

I live in the Gordius Apartment Complex, my interior designer was M.C. Escher.

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[–] reemhassan02 8 years ago

My thoughts exactly i did not see this coming
It was one if the best finales ever 😀😀

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[–] edgar1975 8 years ago

Well, the Good Place didn't look very appealing from the first episodes, not many good things happened there, so something was off. That being said, I didn't expect the twist, I just thought the Good Place was terribly wrong. I loved it being just a game and Michael being a demon.

I must say the season got a bit boring in the middle, but it got much much better toward the end, especially (obviously) in the last episode.

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[–] MoviemanCin 8 years ago

Lost ended??

Schrodinger's cat walks into a bar and doesn't.

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