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Who really is the most deserving of the good place?

posted 8 years ago by Crazygreen1127
17 replies | jump to latest

Among the 4 leads?

I'd argue Eleanor, actually. She's made the biggest turnaround of them all, and it now shouldn't just be based on time on Earth. She literally showed she was willing to sacrifice herself for others several times throughout the season.

I could argue Jason is the worst. I mean, he legit doesn't seem to care whose life he ruins. But then again, is his stupidity enough of an excuse to justify it.

Tahani seems the most deserving on paper, but is the most selfish in person. She's snarky, and does seem to have the motive of attention behind all her motives.

Chidi would be the most deserving, aside from him actually "killing" Janet. Even if he did it to stop someone else from doing it, it's hardly a heroic act

So, going strictly by the guidelines of the bad place itself, and not life before, I would rank it this way:

1. Eleanor- she's the only one of the 4 central characters that changed for the better. The others have either gotten worse, or stayed bad.

2. Jason- I believe his stupidity renders him oblivious to those he hurts. I don't think he means ill will. I believe intent is everything. And it's obvious he feels love.

3. Tahani- opposite of Jason. Everything she does on the surface is kindhearted, but her motive for everything is never for pure pleasure of others. It's for her own self gain.

4. Chidi- probably the most good natured, but the fact that he actually committed murder in a sense, I can't logically put him any higher.

So, interesting turn of events. The two who were deemed the most bad, I actually think are the most deserving of the good place.

[–] The_Grither 8 years ago

My problem with Chidi being there is that he seems to be the only one who has a legitimate mental condition that can be blamed for his behavior. He seems to genuinely care about being a good person but he's just crippled with anxiety. In retrospect, all of Michael's supposed attempts to "help" him that ended up doing more harm than good make a lot more sense. I was always wondering if Michael was really so clueless that he didn't understand he was making things worse and now I know he knew exactly what he was doing.

Maybe it could be said that Jason has a mental issue too if his IQ is low enough to make him handicapped but I think he's just an idiot with an average IQ and no common sense.

And I think Tahani and Eleanor are both products of their upbringing, which doesn't completely let them off the hook but should count for something.

[–] Crazygreen1127 8 years ago

So how would you rank them?

[–] The_Grither 8 years ago

Chidi deserves the good place the most because of his anxiety
Tahani second because even though her motives were selfish she still did good thing
Eleanor third because even though she was a bad person she's demonstrated the capacity to change
Jason last but only if he doesn't have an actual mental disability and just an idiot. If he does have a disability I'd put him second or first depending on how severe.

[–] Crazygreen1127 8 years ago

So, the opposite of me? 😂😂

[–] TheMountainThatRides23 8 years ago

Their situation reminds me something I've always thought about in relation to a heaven/hell view of an afterlife.

I'm a pretty decent guy (I would say) cuz I have a loving family and good upbringing. But what if I was born to a family full of gang members who had me convinced from childhood that I needed to grow up to be a murdering gangbanger in order to be accepted? Kids adopt the norms of the people who raise them. I go from "decent guy" to "scum of society" just because I was born to the wrong people.

Eleanor is a terrible person because she had terrible parents. Jason and Chidi have borderline mental disorders. Tahani is a product of a family that always showered praise on her sister and not on her.

Why should these people be punished for being born under terrible circumstances?

One of the most evil men in history would not have been so evil if he had simply been accepted into art school like he wanted.......is alternate universe Hitler in heaven?

"The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister."

[–] The_Grither 8 years ago

I've thought about this too and it's a very tough one. I think that no matter how bad a person's situation in life is there's always a chance for good and evil actions and assuming there's an afterlife where our actions are weighed and used to determine our fate (which itself is another huge debate 😊) then our actions are weighted based on our lives.

[–] nessieberry 8 years ago

I agree with this so much so that it's why I gave up on Christianity. I could never respect or love a god who punished someone for being the product of life he put them in. I'm a social worker and some kids are going to be bad people and no amount of intervention will change it. The whole "free will" and idea that people get to choose wether or no they follow god is BS.

[–] TheMountainThatRides23 8 years ago

Yeah there are people I've mentioned this thought process to and they go "no....you always have a choice. Just because bad things happen to you doesn't mean you're forced to be bad."

I don't think they really understand the impact your childhood has on the person you become. Or they think about from their perspective as a healthy individual who has the freedom of choice.

"The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister."

[–] mddwbsst 8 years ago

I'm not sure if I entirely agree with that. I mean I know having a messed up childhood can destroy your life (most serial killers start off like that).

But people on a whole aren't so simple. There are plenty of terrible people who had pretty great lives. Plenty of great people who had terrible one's. Who we are might not be as simple as your choices, but its equally not a simple as your experiences.

[–] TheMountainThatRides23 8 years ago

Who we are is a combination of the chemicals in your brain and your life experiences. Most people are average. Alright upbringings, brains functioning in an average manner.

But I was trying to make an argument for people on extreme ends of the spectrum. People with mental disorders that make them violent or people who were indoctrinated very early on with horrible ideas. People who would have been decent people in any other life but were born into terrible circumstances. I don't see how the traditional view of heaven/hell can judge these people fairly next to people who were born into average circumstances.

The factors that make a person who they are are way too complex to outline, as you mentioned, so why should there be a simple, standard way to judge everybody?

"The plastic tips at the end of shoelaces are called aglets. Their true purpose is sinister."

[–] mddwbsst 8 years ago

Who we are is a combination of the chemicals in your brain and your life experiences. Most people are average. Alright upbringings, brains functioning in an average manner.

Very true.

But I was trying to make an argument for people on extreme ends of the spectrum.

Ah right, I'm with you now.

I don't see how the traditional view of heaven/hell can judge these people fairly next to people who were born into average circumstances

I understand your views. But to be completely fair, it does kin of depend on what you consider the traditional view on Heaven/hell. People's idea of what Heaven and Hell meant in say the 13th century was quite a bit different to what it is today.

Scholars and philosophers have spent centuries debating all these points you've mentioned.

I mean compared to the actual texts on the subject. The idea most people hold is a gross simplification of a massively complex and unclear subject.

The factors that make a person who they are are way too complex to outline, as you mentioned, so why should there be a simple, standard way to judge everybody?

Well I don't know about simple.

If we're speaking purely speculatively here. The only way I can see it working is if you could know every detail about a person.

Including how they would behave if placed in a different situation than the one they lived in.

[–] Jennie_Portrait 8 years ago

I could never respect or love a god who punished someone for being the product of life he put them in.

I agree with you totally. People are dealt uneven hands in life, so why is it fair to judge everyone by the same set of standards? Colleges and universities realize this when they assemble their acceptances. They'll take someone from a poor school over a rich school. The ultimate decision is what did a person do with the materials they were given?

___________________________________
Never say never...

[–] troyplafond 8 years ago

1. Chidi. He wants to be a good person and tries very hard to. The reason that he ultimately ends up not being a good person is anxiety and lack of decision-making skills, which shows that he is held back by mental health.
2. Eleanor - she has a clear capacity for improvement and clearly wants to improve. Her intended sacrifice shows this, and also has a pure motivation.
3. Tahani - she tries to be good, but for the wrong reasons. She raised all the money for charity, but only to show up her family members. Even going beyond that, she is very self-centered.
4. Jason - dimwitted, carefree, and ultimately doesn't seem to care about much. From what we have seen, he hasn't done anything overtly bad, but he also hasn't done anything overtly good. While this begs inclusion over the ones who have made mistakes, at least the other 3 are attempting to be good people. He isn't even trying.

[–] Wilde_2015 8 years ago

1. Chidi
2. Jason
3. Tahani
4. Eleanor

Chidi genuinely strives for altruism even if he's horribly pretentious and effete.

Jason is an idiot through and through but there is little evidence that he attempts to reverse that. He's clearly able to groom himself, operate equipment and maintain a ruse so he isn't actually as stupid as disinterested in anything other than his own esoteric interests.

Tahani is motivated by jealousy, image and competition. She's also pretentious, classist and a bit two faced. If she made the world better, it was by mere happenstance.

Eleanor isn't stupid either just disinterested and self-involved. She's knows right and wrong and openly flaunts her disregard for it. Strangely her open contempt for civility may have been her best Earth trait as at least never cared about the charade of acting the part of being a "good person" that so many do.

[–] Crazygreen1127 8 years ago

And you seemed to have also ignored everything that has happened in the Good Place, which was the point of my question. Therefore, your answer is nothing.

[–] Wilde_2015 8 years ago

Who really is the most deserving of the good place?

Funny. This question says nothing about judging the character regarding how they behaved in The Good Place. Your mention of this only happened during your arguments in favour of your order.

Since the fake "Good Place" only turned out to be a punishment, and any trial and judgment they received while there a farce, what they did there is irrelevant.

And BTW I participated in your precious thread with a sincere answer and you responded to me like that. Something makes me think I hit a nerve. Perhaps I accidentally described you.

[–] Aizyk 8 years ago

"Murder" involves intent to kill someone without justifiable mitigating factors such as self-defense. What happened to Janet because of Chidi would barely even count as involuntary manslaughter on his part because Janet is essentially just an android who can be rebooted as needed, albeit with a couple days of downtime. Plus he was actually trying to prevent her from getting shut down, and what happened to her was ultimately Jason's fault.

IMO Tahani most deserves to be in The Good Place (a real one, not the fake one that it turned out to be) despite being annoyingly condescending because even if her motivations were less than pristine, they weren't malevolent either, and she more than anyone left the world a better place.

Chidi 2nd, because his motivations are altruistic and he's more or less harmless.

Eleanor 3rd, because Jason has almost no redeeming qualities.

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