MovieChat Forums > Bunk'd (2015) Discussion > Renaissance Week

Renaissance Week

posted 5 years ago by MAGolding (1231)
3 replies | jump to latest

This post is rather long, so I decided to write a shorter post as a reply to it. So you can skip to my next post if you want to.

In "Serf's Uprising" Camp Kikiwaka had the annual Renaissance Week, and as usual the costumes, decorations, etc, were a mix of medieval and renaissance.

One flag hung in the mess hall in particular caught my eye. It was definitely anachronistic. since it was from either the 18th century (1701-1800) or the 19th century (1801-1900).

It was a big yellow flag with a black two headed eagle, with a shield containing several coats of arms, obviusly some modern reproduction of a battalion color of the Austrian Army.

Here is a link to a drawing of an an Austrian color from about 1745-1765:

https://www.kronoskaf.com/syw/index.php?title=File:Austrian_German_Infantry_Regimentsfahne.jpg

Note that this color has partially different designs on the obverse (front) and reverse (back) sides.

On the obverse side the coats of arms on the body of the eagle are those of Lorraine and Tuscany, and the initials on the wings of the eagle are "CF IM" for "Charles Francis Imperator". Charles Francis was hereditary Duke of Lorraine from 1729 to 1737 and Grand Duke of Tuscany from 1737 to 1765, and Elected Emperor of the Romans Francis I from 1745 to 1765.

On the reverse side the coats of arms and initials "MT" are those of Maria Theresa, his wife, hereditary Queen of Hungary and Croatia, Queen of Bohemia, Archduchess of Austria, etc., etc., etc., from 1740 to 1780. On one side of the shield is Hungary Modern above Hungary Ancient, on the other side is Bohemia, and in a tiny shield in the middle Austria.

Here is a link to an illustrated article about a similar flag from that era:

http://www.flagheritagefoundation.org/news/austrian-flag-donation/

Here is a link to an Austrian color from about 1750-1800:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Army_flags_of_Austria-Hungary#/media/File:RegFahne2.jpg

The 1792 pattern, the same as the 1780 pattern but changing the imperial initials, shows the coat of arms of the Holy Roman Emperor, yellow with a black two headed eagle, the eagle's heads with halos, and a shield with many coats of arms of the emperor's hereditary possessions on the body of the eagle.

Here are links to bigger pictures:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Imperial_Austrian_Army_of_the_Napoleonic_Wars#/media/File:Bataillonsfahne_vom_Jahre_1792.jpg

https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/b3c202/austrian_imperial_flag_from_1792/

https://www.reddit.com/r/heraldry/comments/epot9a/coat_of_arms_on_old_austrian_habsburg_imperial/

The 1804 pattern shows the two headed eagle of the holy Roman Emperor with shields with the coats of arms of hereditary possessions on the wings of the eagle, and on the body of the eagle a square with the coat of arms of the Austrian Emperor, yellow with a black two headed eagle.

Here is a link to a bigger illustration:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Imperial_Austrian_Army_of_the_Napoleonic_Wars#/media/File:Bataillonsfahne_vom_Jahre_1804.jpg

The 1806 pattern uses the coat of arms of the Austrian Empire.

Here is a link to an illustration of the model 1816 Austrian infantry color:

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ah%5E.html

Here is a link to a picture of an Austrian color of the 35th regiment captured at the Battle of Solferino in 1859:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/c2vd6o/flag_of_the_35th_austrian_infantry_regiment/

See also here: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1e/4d/1e/1e4d1eec168f74ff09d0a88a62c3a0d9.jpg

That prop flag certainly wasn't medieval or renaissance. Watching the program again I think I noticed halos around the heads of the eagle, and a number of coats of arms on the shield indicating it might have been the 1792 pattern. Some of the coats of arms looked wrong, though.

Another flag or wall hanging was see on the wall opposite to the kitchen, a white flag with the great coat of arms of the state of Bavaria in Germany, which looks like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Bavaria#/media/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Bavaria.svg .

The present coat of arms was adopted in 1950.

Here is a link to a discussion of several forms of the Bavarian flag, none of them identical with the one in the episode:

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/de-by_v.html

Here is a link to someone's design for a similar Bavarian flag:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/7me0lk/canadanized_bavaria/

and another design:

https://imgur.com/a/vTzTV#0

Maybe it was a wall hanging like this one:

https://www.ebay.com/i/352824363348?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=352824363348&targetid=538495483375&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=9007198&poi=&campaignid=6470549460&mkgroupid=81274343007&rlsatarget=pla-53849

[–] Bloodworth79 (5690) 5 years ago

I hope your not dangerous

[–] MAGolding (1231) 4 years ago

Here is a shorter version of the post about flags in the Renaissance Week episode, "Serf's Up-rising", 23 Novembr 2019.

A flag hanging from the ceiling near the door of the mess hall caught my attention, since it had a two headed eagle, which I always enjoy.

After studying it I decided that flag was a modern replica of a battalion or regimental color (battle flag) of an Austrian army unit, with the coat of arms of a Holy Roman Emperor. And from the design, it would have been the 1780 pattern, or the slightly modified 1792 pattern.

Here is a link to a photograph of a preserved 1792 pattern Austrian color:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/RegFahne2.jpg .

And here is a link to a site with photos of three Austrian colors perserved in the Army History Museaum in Vienna. The top one is a 1792 pattern color, probably the same one as in the other photo, the middle one is the only surviving 1804 pattern color, and the bottom one is an 1806 pattern color.

http://napitalia.org.uk/eng/ord.shtml

And here is a link to a better photo of another flag with the 1792 pattern:

https://www.reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/b3c202/austrian_imperial_flag_from_1792/

If you look closely you can see the halos around the heads of the eagle in the imperial coat of arms.

There is a shield on the eagle's torso with the arms of many of the emperor''s real or claimed possessions. The shield is divided into three columns and four rows.

Top row dexter to sinister: Hungary ancient impaling Hungary modern, quartered I Castile, 2 Leon, 3 Aragon, 4 unknown, Bohemia.

Second row: Burgundy ancient, Austria impaling Lorraine, Tuscany.

Third Row: Transylvania, Milan or Lombardy, Mantua.

Fourth row: County of Holland?, Flanders, Tyrol.

And of course it is an anachronism to use a prop with a 1792 design in a Renaissaice week, though seeing a flag of the Holy Roman Empire is always enjoyable to me. To some of the younger kids who watch Bunk'd 1792 may seem so long ago that it might as well be the Renaissance era.

But the F II on the eagle's wings is the monogram of Francis II, Elected Emperor of the Romans, who didn't die until 1835, and so knew his grandson Franz Joseph, Emperor of Austria (1830-1916), and I have seen a photo of Franz Joseph with his brother's great grandson Otto, the last crown prince of Austria, who was born in 1912 and didn't die until 2011.

In my own family I have corresponded with, and talked on the phone with, a relative who was born in 1897 and so knew his grandfather who died in 1906; that grandfather was born in 1830, and his own father was born in 1779, and so was alive when those 1792 patttern Austrian colors were carried into many bloody battles by the soldiers of the last Emperor of the Romans.

So to me 1792 seems recent enough that I can appreciate how long it was after the Renaissance era, and how anachronistic a 1792 pattern flag would be in a historically accurate Renaissance week.

[–] MAGolding (1231) 4 years ago

And in "Serf's Up-rising" I also noticed a flag or wall hanging in an alcove which seemed to have the coat of arms of the German state of bavaria on it:

Here is a link to an image of the modern coat of arms of Bavaria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#/media/File:Coat_of_arms_of_Bavaria.svg

And I saw the same coat of arms, in the same style, in the the flag or wall hanging.

Here are links to the two flags used by the Free State of Bavaria:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#/media/File:Flag_of_Bavaria_(striped).svg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavaria#/media/File:Flag_of_Bavaria_(lozengy).svg

But apparently there are even more official and unofficial variations on the Bavarian flag as seen and discussed at:

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/de-by.html

And none of the flags illustrated looked exactly like the flag or wall hanging I saw in "Serf's Uprising". In any case a 20th or 21st century flag or wall hanging patttern and design is not exactly what one would expect in an historically accurate Renaissance week, though only to be expected in a typical one.