Dustin theorizes he is a "general" of the Mindflayer, but I am wondering if he is his own entity? I can see the Mindflayer wanting his power, but Vecna does not strike me as the type of person who serves anyone. I'm kinda hoping they are two separate antagonists vying for power in the Upside Down.
shareHave you seen the last episode??
shareYeah.
shareThen it should be clear, right?
Or are you asking if Vecna had become a Mind Flyer minion after reaching the upsidedown world? We have no reason to believe so, there had been no connection really made between the two, yet, beside the Dustin "theory".
It's not clear at all - they didn't give us an answer, only Dustin's theory.
shareIt is rather clear: Vecna is One, and we don't see any sign of him being influenced by the Mind Flyer in the show so it is improbable that he is. All his evilness is present while being One in our world and he was even then hell bent on fucking up humanity.
There are other theories in the show that are wrong, like how Hellfire is a satanic cult. Dustin theory could prove valid in the next 2 episodes but based on what we've seen so far we don't have enough data to say that it's right.
Occam's razor would settle the issue not in Dustin's favor. But as I said, we have to wait and see.
Do you not know what the word "clear" means?
shareI know, do you?
Did you see, beside Dustin's "theory", any hint that Vecna is a minion of Mind Flyer?? Because I didn't see any.
Dustin pulled a theory out of his ass because he assumes that the Mind Flyer controls everything in the Upside Down world and that Vecna is in that world. That's all.
And like any theory it could be true, or could be ... not true. So far, based on what we know, seems to not be true.
Wait and see ffs. Maybe will get more hints about the power dynamics but I bet we will not.
It's funny that you want a CLEAR answer for something that's not clear in the show.
I'll say it again: in the show there is NO instance in which we are shown that Vecna is a Mind Flayer minion. Is that CLEAR enough for you?
"It's funny that you want a CLEAR answer for something that's not clear in the show."
Not clear?! You don't say.
I don't think that theory has really been answered yet because we just learned who Vecna is.
Given the hive mind of the Upside Down, it seems highly unlikely that they're just doing their own separate things and not really bothering each other or aware of each other; it's more likely that they are in cahoots, though in what capacity is far from answered.
Serving the Mind Flayer probably also serves Vecna's own interests, so if he is in league with the MF, whether because he's been coerced into it, or simply to protect himself against the MF's other many minions and avoid interference from the MF itself, it may not mean he ranks below him in or is tied to him in any other way.
I think the more pertinent question is actually whether the other "monsters" in the Upside Down were also from the Rightside Up world and, if so, how do they connect? I think it would be interesting if something like the MF was another one of Dr. Brenner's failed experiments.
I have a hard time imagining the guy who (quite literally) just broke free from being a prisoner Brenner's being subservient to someone else almost immediately. It doesn't jive with his personality. He just finished that long detailed dialogue to 11 telling her how he wants to reshape the world.
The Mind Flayer would have to beat him into submission for someone with that ego and those aspirations to say, "You know what? I WILL serve you." Maybe that's what that lightning was? The MF letting him know who was in-chrage there. Personally, I think I would prefer if they were two separate antagonists with similar goals and not allies, but I doubt they go that way. I don't see the writers having Dustin explain to us his theory only to not have it be the case.
We'll find out in a month.
Either way, I liked this season a lot more than I expected.
Vecna came to the USD as a stranger in a strange land and knows a lot about self-preservation, so I think that's as far as his allie-ship would extend - protecting himself. Ego can't exist unless one stays alive. If the MF were his superior though, it begs the question of why he never found a way back to the Rightside Up at some point, but I doubt they'll answer that in this season if at all. However, the fact he is thriving in the USD shows he's not at odds with the MF at least.
On the contrary, his desire to be a predator aligns with the MFs own predatory nature, so it's not like they have to compete necessarily - because they operate differently but with the same purpose, but I doubt they're not connected in some way.
I want confirmation either way and I do think we get it. The fact that the show itself brought it up shows they know it's something people are wondering about.
I just watched a video recently which theorized that Vecna actually created the Mind Flayer, in homage to his love for spiders, which is why the Upside Down targets El, Hawkins and teenagers in general, and it kinda made sense depending on how the Upside Down works and what's possible there. So I guess we'll see.
shareVecna as the big bad, hmm.... So the Upside Down either didn't exist or was simply empty until that incident in which El sent him there? Interesting.
shareIt kinda makes sense. When 11 sends Vecna there we see an unshaped space, pretty much empty.
So it could be possible that Vecna created everything inside and not just a copy of the city ...
I honestly never considered that, but yeah. It was just kind of a void. Empty space. Pre-Big Bang type of stuff. When she killed him, she tore a hole in space and time and creating an alternate dimension and Vecna created it how he wanted. Oooh, I hope it's that. I like the sounds of that.
shareCould be and it would be interesting if so, because it seems like it has some positive aspects - like the places where both worlds connect and the lights flicker - and that backstory would be really interesting as well.
shareIt's a plausible theory, for sure. And it would be cool to know what the place was like before Vecna, and what else is possible if he's removed - for example, what could El turn the place into with her powers, seeing as how she's at least as powerful as he is.
shareIt adds up, yeah. I think we all just kinda assumed the Upside Down was super old, but it doesn't have to be, and it being new - and the creation of 11 - would make sense why the attacks only started recently. I dig it.
share