MovieChat Forums > Mulan (2020) Discussion > Bad reviews are mostly from poor underst...

Bad reviews are mostly from poor understanding or anti-female


I've read lots of complaints that don't really make sense to me.

1. Mulan was not a "chosen one" Ch'i is simply an energy force that is inside everyone. She developed her skills through a lot of focus, hardwork, and training. Trained by her father who was also a greatly skilled warrior/soldier. This is shown early in the movie.

2. Anti-female are the people who call it "SJW nonsense" Really they will find anything wrong with a strong female character and just call it "SJW" You can't have a strong female lead without these people complaining.

These are the 2 biggest gripes that everyone repeats. Neither are valid.

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Right just play the gender card when your movie doesn't do well. There are plenty of very well known strong female characters that everyone loves: Sarah Conner, Princess Leia, Ellen Riply, etc. Those characters had to earn the badass moments they got which makes them interesting and relatable characters, Disney is just giving characters intended badass moments but they don't develop or write these characters well so it's meaningless. Basically Disney's message this day is: If you aren't born special and perfect then there's something wrong with you and no matter how hard you work you won't be able to be as good as someone who was born special. Not a good message for children.

No one I know of has a problem with "strong female characters", however plenty of people have a problem with poorly written and underdeveloped Mary Sue characters which seems to be all that Disney is writing these days.

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Case in point ladies and gents. Another thick skull that didn't even understand the movie. She wasn't born special! I explain that right in the OP but that won't get through your thick skull.

Just move on and go watch something else. You named 70s and 80s movies as examples for female characters you liked. Nowadays to people like you its "feminist propaganda" and Mary Sue. As I said, move on and go watch something else like Terminator.

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Right so because I don't agree with you I must not understand it. You don't have the first clue what a strong character is. You and Disney are in favor of these female characters who never have to work for anything or have any challenges to overcome because you just want to appear virtuous and sanctimonious, it's really sick. As for the movies I named those were legit strong female characters the fact that you don't understand what constitutes a strong character says a lot about your lack of intelligence, that and the fact that you don't understand what a Mary Sue is. Also the fact that those movies are from the 70's and 80's is irrelevant. I will go watch The Terminator, great idea, it's far better than this garbage Disney is putting out these days. You seem like a Dark Fate fan.

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I'm not going to keep repeating the same points that you have shown to have a complete lack of ability to comprehend. I'll try once more.

She worked very hard. In fact the film shows she was dedicating all her time to training. Her father taught her a lot when she was wrong and she loved training. Her family became concerned that its all she was doing so her father had to tell her to give it up.

Didn't have any challenges to overcome? Sure, hiding your identity and risking death is not a challenge at all. Also the fact that she was told how she should behave, and that she wasn't good enough - bringing shame to her family because she couldn't make the "ideal wife" But yea she was born perfect...lol

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Look man I've not even seen the remake, but I know what Disney is all about these days, the way they wrote Rey in Star Wars was not "strong" she was an entitled princess who never had to work for any of the apparent badass moments she got. Isn't it true that she was born awesome and privileged and didn't have to put in the work that the cartoon version did because that is what pretty much every review is saying? You don't know the first thing about what makes a strong character.

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If it hadn't been for the right chance circumstances coming along, Rey would have been stuck on that desert backwater scavenging garbage for the rest of her life, in-born special abilities notwithstanding. For those of us who were born with superior talents but stuck in squalid circumstances where such aptitudes could never be fully expressed, Rey's story was quite uplifting and very, very relatable.

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If you are really interested in well written, "strong female characters" go watch On Her Majesty's Secret Service, because Diana Rigg (who tragically lost her life today) gives an incredible performance to a very well written character who had actually struggles and challenges to overcome.

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Ok boomer.

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It seems you are the one who actually has a problem with strong female characters or else you wouldn't have dismissed Tracy who is a far better character than any of the Mary Sue's Disney has been writing recently.

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Who's Tracy? From the James Bond movie? I don't really care to go watch James Bond right now. Its funny that your examples are all movies from 60s-80s though. And movies where its not the lead character, other than Alien I suppose.

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Exactly you don’t know what you’re talking about, she was An actual strong female character who was well written and earned the strong moments she got, she’s not like the entitled princesses Disney is writing today. Also the fact that the film is from the 60s is completely irrelevant , whether she’s the lead character or not is also irrelevant, you’re just making up the rules as you go. But fine how about Jackie brown from Jackie brown, she’s the lead character and she’s Black which you’ll probably love since SJWs see everything through the prism of race and gender

Edit : on a side note it’s pretty pathetic that the supporting characters I cited are stronger characters than the primary character you are pathetically attempting to defend.

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You're a boomer who can't stand strong female leads. It matters a lot when the movie is "Mulan" vs "The Terminator" or "Alien" or some random James Bond movie.

I've seen them all btw but its been a while since I've seen that particular one. To me I don't get hung up on "Omg that girl is too strong! this is SJW!" I like the movie or I don't. I listened to the problems people felt they had with this movie and see its all bs. Most of the people I don't think even watched it, or almost all of them prejudged it as "SJW"

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Are you kidding? I cited multiple strong female characters that I have always respected. You’re just bitter because your movie is bombing big time and your message is that girls should be born strong and if they have to put in actual work then there’s something wrong with them. You’re the one who has a problem with gender. I know exactly what Disney is doing these day’s and these characters they are writing are weak , bland and Unengaging. It’s hard to relate to someone if they are perfect at everything and doesn’t have to work or face challenges. Get off your pedestal and quit being a sexist crybaby. Maybe you should actually listen to the complaints and you’d learn what it actually takes to write a strong character, making them perfect from the beginning and not having them face any challenges is not how to do it (male or female) and it creates an underwritten and weak character. Rey is a weak character (and it appears Mulan 2020 is as well)

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You know throwing the boomer name is no different than your rank about someone using sjws, you've just proven yourself a hypocrite with no leg to standon.

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Except Mulan isn't a strong female character in this one. Giving her special powers that makes her better than everyone and allows her to jump around like a superhero defeats the whole purpose of the character. The original Mulan was strong and brave because she went into war without knowing anything about fighting, but with a lot of hard work and determination, she became a skilled soldier. You talk about "SJW nonsense" and "anti-female", but ironically, it's more sexist to write women like the new Mulan.

You also forgot to mention the fact that they took away everything that made the original so great in the first place, like Mushu, the songs, the humor and charming characters.

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Stick to the original thats fine. This movie isn't trying to copycat everything about the original, nor is it trying to replace it. This is a different telling of the ballad of Mulan.

Superhero? No. Special powers? No. More skills through years of training by a great skilled former soldier (her father)? Yes. That wasn't anything given to her. You missed where she dedicated all her time to training. If you don't think thats hardwork and determination then you might need your head checked.

I prefer the original animated too. But the gripes over "superhero" "special powers" "didn't work hard" are untrue and invalid.

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She displayed supernatural chi power at a tender age. She was born with greater chi than most people. The message being "You are elementally better than anyone else regardless of effort" instead of "with effort, you can be anything" which fits the generational narcissist trend. Teach your daughters that they are owed things instead of working for them. No wonder China hates it.

One scene of her spinning a staff in a field does not equal "earned ability."

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Wow you are dumb loll

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Exactly, and that seems to be what Disney is doing these days: Female characters have to be flawless and have no challenges to overcome nor do they have to work to achieve anything. They are just good because they are awesome. These characters Disney writes are weak, bland and uninteresting a perfect example is MaRey Sue from Star Wars. And yes you are correct it is sexist to write female characters this way because you are sending the message that females are supposed to be overpowered and in real life if you aren't then there's something wrong with you. Disney doesn't know the first thing about writing strong characters and this idea that if you don't like Disney's approach that you are somehow against strong female characters is absurd, I have cited multiple strong female characters from other franchises that I love (Sarah Conner, Ellen Ripley, Ruth De Wit Bukater, Officer Anne Lewis, Meg Altman (Panic Room), Tracy Di Vicenzo, Melina from Total Recall, Hermione Granger, etc.)

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“Neither” is singular; hence, “neither IS valid.”

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i liked it

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I'm anti-bad movie and a quitruiningmychildhoodcartoons-ist. That's my beef with this.

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I have no idea how you feel this ruins the original animated movie.

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Watching some of these live-action films changes how one can feel about the original cartoon, whether good or bad. You then attempt to watch the cartoon, but then your views are tainted by the dogshit live-action remakes, reminding you how sad you are that Disney lost their mojo in making movies just a few decades after the original cartoon.

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Disney has made some of their best movies ever in recent years, like Coco. Your brains just a peanut.

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How kind of you to let me know what you're made of. And by the way, Coco is nothing more than a pile of crap pandering to Latin Americans. Nobody even remembers it very well when talking about great Disney movies these days, and it's only been out for a few years. Good day.

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Thank you for solidifying that you're a complete ignoramus.

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In response to #2, you know as well as I do that these people love movies like Kill Bill, Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1 & 2, etc. So maybe what they like is being treated like an adult, and to have the female characters speak for themselves through action and not forced narrative. Ya know...the way films are supposed to communicate.

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Do you think "these people" would spend nearly as much time spewing toxic negativity about a film if it was a male lead? I'll answer, no they wouldn't.

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Oh, yes we would.

We despise T: Genesys and not because of Clarke, as an example.

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I've never seen Genisys because I lose interest when they keep making sequels. So you hate it solely because of a "Mary Sue" type character or just that its a bad movie?

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He told you that it doesn’t have to do with women. It’s just a flat-out shitty movie. These boards are full of threads about horrible movies that have nothing to do with misogyny, so stop looking for problems where there aren’t any. Audiences like to have their intelligence respected. When that happens, people don’t nitpick. It’s quite simple, really.

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Uh exactly my point. Its just a bad movie so its not relevant at all.

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SO it's mulan, a bad movie. Just happens that the lead is woman.

We don't dislike Mulan because it has a female lead but because it's a bad movie. Specially compared with the original which btw i love. I (we) love the original Mulan although it's kinda the same story and has a female lead. Can you see how stupid your position is???? To tell us that we didn't like Mulan because misogyny while we basically LOVE the original Mulan ...

In your mind it might the be best but it's not. And you even refuse to understand why people say it's bad. No, it's not for you to change your mind but to see some other viewpoints and why other people think different.

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You came here with an opinion, and you have absolutely no intention of seeing another viewpoint. That much is clear. So why bother?

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1. Nope, there was no intense training in the movie. Even when she was a kid and her father was crippled (a crippled extraordinary trainer that cannot stand on his feets? right) she was ... superhuman.

2. No, we don't find anything wrong with a lot of strong female characters. We LOVE legit female strong characters. We love Weaver in alien, we love Pvt Vasquez in aliens (and Weaver), we love the old Mulan. We do love strong females, when they are strong, not .... supernatural.

"You know Amy, any time somebody calls attention to the breaking of gender roles it ultimately undermines the concept of gender equality by implying that this is an exception and not the status quo," -Knuckles

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You couldn't have seen the movie because the father wasn't old and cripple when he was training her. Nope, you're lost.

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He trained her for 2 hours? Training to that level of technique takes years, not 2 days.

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2 hours? where the heck did you pull that number out of? She was being trained as a child bozo. For years of her life she dedicated to it.

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Nope, you cannot train a kid to come to that kind of skill. And while she was ready for some serious training her father was already old and crippled. 2 hours was a sarcastic way to say that no way she had the time to train.

And btw, are we shown even for a second how her father trains her to be the best warrior in china? That scene with the chicken when she was a child was cringy ...

In the original the story unfolds much better and logical, she actually TRAINS at the camp and becomes and apt warrior during her training that we actually.

That is the difference (one of them) and that's why people are upset.

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You can definitely train a kid to possess that kind of skill. You'd obviously be surprised to see what kids out there are capable of. The part with the chicken was a little cringe because of the poor CGI but the scene had its purpose. It was to show her determination and hard work. Her father was telling her to forget about it but she wouldn't. How many kids will keep going to those lengths to catch the chicken. It was a challenge and she enjoyed it. Also, it showed how just everyday stuff led to her developing or refining other skills. Similar to how when Rocky is being trained and part of his training is having to catch a chicken.

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Rocky didn't fly through the air and defied the laws of physics as a child, neither had the original Mulan, which we see PLAYING, not in intense training.

And now decide: was her father telling her to forget about it or was he training her to be the best warrior of china???

That was the problem: that she never really trained, on screen. You know, like in the original Mulan.

But to end the argument: it's clear that you cannot understand the simple point: we don't like the movie because it's a bad movie, not because it has a female lead. As i already told you we LOVE the original Mulan which has ... a female lead.

So your whole argument is flawed and illogic.

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Watch this and maybe you will understand ... if you can.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZccG-wtt5FA

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I don't need people to try to influence the way I feel. I saw the movie and know how I feel about it. I don't need someone to try to change my mind into not liking and enjoying something. That's just dumb.

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Only the stupid thinks that they are the best and don't need to see how other people think and why.

Yes, that's juts dumb to not be willing to see another view point, typical stupid libtard.

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That's a good comparison and explanation video. I, too, like the 1998 animated Mulan character and movie better. I didn't get the chi that Mulan had as it seemed to be her natural superior athletic talent and not something everyone possess but have to bring out through training. In comparison, her sister does not have that, is timid and shy, and is just willing to accept her fate as a bride. Moreover, being forced into a difficult or crisis situation brings it out of us. The closest I can think of this is the, "Be all that you can be" slogan of the US Army through rigorous military training. Finally, the other reason for the change seems to that Disney didn't want to upset China's view and was willing to kowtow to it in order to make $$$$s.

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I think the opposite view is that this version is more a super hero movie like than in the Marvel universe. That's how someone who liked it explained it to me.

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