MovieChat Forums > Fifty Shades Darker (2017) Discussion > OK sooooo Women don't like "stalkers" an...

OK sooooo Women don't like "stalkers" and "creeps".


But they are going to go to the cinema in droves and line up around the corner, to watch a movie about a stalker? Interesting........

Boston and Philly love to slander us, but they don t have as many fans as us

reply

You also called Edward Cullen a stalker.

reply

You also called Edward Cullen a stalker.


and he is BIG time!

reply

You also called Edward Cullen a stalker.


When did I do that?

Boston and Philly love to slander us, but they don t have as many fans as us

reply

True, but there is some scientific reasoning for this. (BTW I'm too busy right now with a million other things so I can't write the article myself or do the research, but I would love to read an academic article on this.) It's a cliche that chicks fall for a-holes. Perhaps that's why they're drawn to this movie in droves. It's a laughable premise at first, but science shows some answers as to why it's true.

Recent research suggests that it's perhaps psychological. Recent studies show that women want a man to be aggressive and even violent. True--they probably don't initially come this this realization while in bed--but the evidence is there nonetheless. The reasons why experts believe these are for several reasons for women's behavior are: 1.) They think they can change this a-hole no matter how abusive, which never comes to fruition; 2.) They think they're somehow different than any woman he's ever met, which is stupidly naive, bet they believe it; 3.) They believe that since the guy has *beep* so many other women before, it's a blow to one's self-confidence if you don't put out as well too; 4.) Cinema has historically portrayed women as sex dolls and sex objects, so they believe--psychologically--that they should act the same way.

I'm not making a direct connection, necessarily, to the popularity of this unbelievably bad novel and movie series, but it's definitely a factor that I would love to read more on in academic journals.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

I wonder if the crowds attending the premier will still be wearing their vag hats.

reply

Don't say "they" like all woman are a part of an organized coalition with the same values and ideas. Hell, even a lot of women who did see it thought it was stupid.

reply

Okay, maybe not "they." But a good majority of women like this garbage, and even people like isundling want to be buried with it. Perhaps I should say "most."


When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

...a good majority of women...


No, dear. Not even close.

This is why it's dangerous to assume popularity based on sales alone, when it's pretty clear that hype was a huge factor in sales (ELJ is a marketing whiz, after all). While I only have a small sample of the overall sales, out of all the women I know who bought these stupid books (probably around 25 or so), only two actually enjoyed them. One of them admitted it was bad and that Christian would be a massive douche in real life. The other skimmed for the sex scenes, so missed out on the stalking bits.

Yeah, there are a lot of middle-aged women who happen to genuinely like these books for whatever stupid reason. But they're still a tiny fraction of the 3.5 billion women on the planet. Their numbers are probably even smaller than the number of women who read it and disliked it. As an example, there are more blogs offering detailed, harsh critiques of this series than there are fan sites for it, and the former gets significant more discussion from fellow haters. See: das-sporking, Jenny Trout, snarksquad, aliceatwonderland, and pervocracy.

reply

Okay, but how, then, can you explain the hundreds of millions books sold and hundreds of millions that the retarded first movie made, and the next one will make? If it didn't have a remarkable (albeit dumb) fanbase, how is it such a hit?

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

I'll even concede now that maybe that is a series that MOST women may deplore. But I still think there is a significant fan following there, which is deserving of some academic attention as to how this is.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

Okay, but how, then, can you explain the hundreds of millions books sold and hundreds of millions that the retarded first movie made, and the next one will make? If it didn't have a remarkable (albeit dumb) fanbase, how is it such a hit?


Hype, as I already mentioned previously. ELJ is a marketer by trade, and she used those skills to push her terrible story to the top of the bestsellers lists. It was actually kind of impressive, in a terrible, manipulative way that led to this godawful story invading book shelves and silver screens everywhere.

So, basically what happened was ... SnowQueensIceDragon, prolific fanfiction writer, jumped on the Twilight bandwagon when it was still popular. However, being a terrible writer, she couldn't draw people in with talented writing alone. Instead, she plagiarized other Twilight fanfiction with similar themes (BDSM instead of vampires). She also used rather devious tricks to keep her story at the top of the reader list at all times, such as making minor changes to chapters so that the chapter would stay at the top of the "newly updated" list. Additionally, "Master of the Universe" was originally one massive story that was divided into three when it became the Shades series. On fanfiction.net, really long stories tend to have a ton of comments simply due to number of comments per chapter (even though it's the same readers each chapter), which made it seem like the story was much more popular than it was.

When ELJ took this barely coherent drivel to get it published, she had already built a rather large fanbase from fanfiction, and she asked her fanfiction fans to read the Shades series, which obviously made it seem as if Shades was a hit and pushed it up in the charts. And what does she do to her loyal Master of the Universe fans who helped her out? In a private conversation, she calls them idiots, admits she's using them so that she can get fame, and then dumps them like a hot pile of *beep* when Shades becomes popular. They now hate her.

https://www.reddit.com/r/TwoXChromosomes/comments/2byz2l/many_women_do_not_agree_with_me_on_this_subject/cjaqvmi/?context=5

http://gentleblaze.livejournal.com/

reply

We agree: these are a bunch of terrible movies and books. That's not even an issue. And I get your points about Twilight and those BDSM books.

You say:

When ELJ took this barely coherent drivel to get it published, she had already built a rather large fanbase from fanfiction, and she asked her fanfiction fans to read the Shades series, which obviously made it seem as if Shades was a hit and pushed it up in the charts


My point is simple: Where did she get this large "fanbase" to begin with? It obviously comes from a remarkably dumb fanbase who know absolutely nothing about classic books, movies, music, etc., but are clinging to this series as if it's the most amazing thing ever (and people like isundling are going to be buried with it forever).

There's a larger explanation to be found.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

There's no larger explanation.

The original "fanbase" was comprised of fanfiction writers and readers. They're all amateur writers, so most of them aren't particularly concerned about story quality when it comes to other fanfiction stories, especially in certain sub-communities. However, they're still generally more critical of published stories. As an example, most of the Twilight fandom actually hates the original Twilight stories and thinks they're poorly written.

Additionally, fanfiction writers, particularly the Twilight fandom, enjoy the sense of community that goes along with writing fanfics. So they agreed to help out ELJ with her publishing scheme more out of a sense of loyalty to the community rather than thinking ELJ's crappy fanficiton is good enough to be published. As noted in the links I posted, ELJ manipulated the hell out of these fans' sense of loyalty, and at least one former fan even tried to discourage her from having it published.

reply

You said it yourself:

The original "fanbase" was comprised of fanfiction writers and readers. They're all amateur writers, so most of them aren't particularly concerned about story quality when it comes to other fanfiction stories, especially in certain sub-communities. However, they're still generally more critical of published stories. As an example, most of the Twilight fandom actually hates the original Twilight stories and thinks they're poorly written.


That's my point! They all are a bunch of amateur idiots who don't know how to write or publish a book or screenplay themselves...so they flock to things like FSoG! There HAS to be some kind of explanation for this--since we all agree that the books and movie is so unbelievably terrible--confirmed by hundreds of book critics, hundreds of film critics, recipient of multiple Razzies, etc.. Anyone with a brain would roll their eyes at this trash, so there must be some reasoning for it.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

You really think people are that black and white? If they enjoy something stupid like FSOG, they must be idiots who are simply incapable of complex thought, surely? How very elitist of you...

It's very possible for an intelligent person to enjoy something that's kinda dumb. It's called a "guilty pleasure" book (or movie or show or whatever else). I'd even say that I enjoy FSOG in a "so bad it's funny" way.

Also, fanfiction is free and it's a lot more informal, which makes it appealing to a lot of people despite the poor quality of most works.

Regardless, this book series gained popularity because a few thousand people were manipulated into helping a woman market her terrible story (and they now hate her because of it). Hype continued to drive it into the public consciousness. Simply because a lot of people bought into the hype doesn't mean that "a majority of women" actually enjoyed it.

For a video game equivalent, see No Man's Sky. The difference is that gamers are a lot more vocal about their hatred of something.

reply

Fine, but don't you think it's something for movie/book like this to make hundreds of millions of dollars? Yes, you could say it was "hype" or a "fad" or something like that. But there's obviously a psychological explanation as to how people could be so dumb, like Starzshine and isundling. They're probably not idiots in general, but there's obviously another reason.

For example, I was a fan of the original Jurassic Park which made over a $billion at the box office--way more than FSoG--but it's not like I'm going to stand in the street to defend it, which isundling and Starzshine will do in a heartbeat. These women are out of their *beep* minds! That's not a normal reaction to any movie. That's what I'm saying.

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

I will say it was hype, because that's exactly what it was.

And why are you ranting about this book/movie series? Of all the terrible films and all their die-hard fans (Suicide Squad, for instance), you pick the one that was almost universally hated. Even the people who'll admit to enjoying it still think it was just a stupid, smutty story.

Sure, it has a few die-hard fans, but so does most anything that enters the public sphere. Even Hitler has his fans.

reply

I complain about a lot of terrible movies--check my history. But I've been uniquely drawn to this board for the reasons I mentioned earlier. I think there is an academic angle that could be examined...that is my interest. Sorry if that offends you...

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

It doesn't offend me at all. I just think you're looking at this the wrong way. If you're genuinely interested in FSOG's popularity, you didn't try ... looking it up? That's how I found all the information I relayed to you.

Personally, I'm more curious about the psychological processes behind your hate-boner for isundling.

reply

LOL ;)

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

So are you now an Isundling and Starzshine22 apologist? Kudos if you are, but that's a tough hill to climb!

When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!

reply

A good majority of women like this garbage.PERIOD!

How's that?

reply