For all the efforts they're making million of women still go to movies like these which in my opinion are much worse than badly written female characters in movies for mostly male audiences. It feels like a shame that it seems that the majority of women barely care about any kind of women's progression by spending their money on crap like this
shareOne can be a feminist and still enjoy looking at pretty people behaving on screen in ways one would not choose to behave in real life. This movie is a fantasy. It is not reality. Try to understand the difference.
Don't tell me you love animals if that's cow muscle on your plate.
ITA it is a fantasy and I think most women know this so it doesn't bother them.
shareAll movies are mostly fantasy... so are most pornos, yet alot of feminists still choose to complain about anything that isnt to their liking that sexualizes women... while going to she utter *beep* like this, i mean don't get me wrong i think both the movies and the books bad but I wouldn't complain, I mean in the book its pretty much straight up abuse and nowhere close to anything like a real BDSM relationship, but again I still wouldn't complain or say it's bad for anyone, the point is it seems like for the type of people that enjoy this garbage one rule for what they enjoy another for what others enjoy.
share"still enjoy looking at pretty people behaving on screen in ways one would not choose to behave in real life"
right but the probably the OP is talking about is the amount of feminists that complain about other movies having women do much much more tame stuff than what is in this movie and the books and complain until something is done about it or unti characters are completely changed because of the complaints, but then films like this make millions off of those same women.
I am a feminist. (And by the way, you don't have to be a woman to be a feminist.) Personally, I think the whole "Fifty Shades" series is anti-woman. I do get that a lot of women like it, including isundling on this board (I like her), but I think that these books/movies send out the worst messages to women, and especially to young kids growing up.
Here is a preposterous story of some billionaire playing out a fantasy and lifestyle, where he abuses women--though he cleverly converts them into his fantasy, so it's not technically rape--and then maintains his billionaire status.
I'm all for hot sex and all of that, but this sends the exact worst message to the unfortunate kids who have to see this. The movie is terrible.
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
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I totally agree! Because I work in the field of education, this is a very personal issue to me. I teach a lot of students who will never remember me, but I do hope to still instill some values that they'll keep in mind as they progress through their careers. I just don't want to see young women liking this *beep* and thinking it's reality.
Now, it would be one thing if they were to somehow have this piece of garbage to be turned into a good movie with some education attached to it, but when you have so many critics ripping the hell out of it, that's something else. One of my favorite critics--who I always trust--Richard Roeper, gave a negative review too, indicating not only that it's terrible as a movie, but also as an educational lesson.
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
Who would've thought the toxicity of Twilight would spawn something even worse.
What I find preposterous, Brian_007 is that you are offended at this sending the wrong message to the "kids" watching it. These are not books or a movie franchise that should be partaken by kids. It's an adult movie. And adult women have far more sense than to muddle fantasy and reality. What continues to go over the heads of people like you is that this isn't real life. Like all movies and books it features an alternate universe where one can escape into a world one would normally have no part in. What Christian Grey does in his bedroom (or playroom) has nothing to do with his work and billionaire status. It's not something anyone who works with him in his business is going to know about. They don't know about it, as well it should be, so why should that have anything to do with him losing his wealth or status in life?
If you think you're doing something great for women by denouncing this as "anti-woman" then I'll tell you for myself, thanks but no thanks. I don't need your help in that area of my life. That is not said with any malice or disrespect. I'm just letting you know, I read all the books, I've seen both movies so far, and once I leave the movie theater and go home, this series has nothing to do with my life and how I live it or what I do. I would not allow a man to disrespect me in any way shape or form. What a guy wants to do with me in the context of our sexual relationship is our business. If I feel such practices encroach too much on other aspects of our lives, then I make the adult decision whether or not I want to continue the relationship.
I watched this movie last night sitting next to likely the youngest demographic that can reasonably be part of the audience, i.e. some young ladies in their low twenties. They were not offended by the movie, nor did I get the impression that they were traumatized by any supposed message that this is how men treat women and how women are supposed to act in a romantic/sexual relationship. Like most everyone else in the theater, they viewed the whole thing as dark humor, soap opera fluff and overall fun entertainment, supplying their own wry commentary throughout. These were, I'm sure by your own estimation, young impressionable girls, but guess what. They saw the whole thing for what it was. Not for what you feel it is, and likely damaging to our poor, poor deluded and fragile gender.
Good for you!
To your point, about this whole series being a clever fiction. Even clever fiction has to be likable, let alone watchable. I still love "The Lion King" and "Beauty and the Beast" even though they're not what I write about. Those are great movies.
But when you have a god-awful movie like this, a 9% score from respected critics worldwide, being mocked by all the comics in the world, Hollywood screenwriters planning to find notes on how they will schedule meetings to trash this garbage, when even the actors (if that's what you want to call them) are unenthusiastic and even laughing about how bad this movie is on talk shows, when The Onion is trying to figure just the right way to attack this garbage, you have to wonder about who these supporters are.
Since you love this trash, I have to ask something: Have you ever even read anything by Jane Austen? Maybe "Pride and Prejudice" or maybe "Emma"? Jane Austen was a great author that wrote INTELLIGENT love stories, which your favorite author E.L. James could not even write a sentence for. E.L. James has the writing ability of a middle schooler who has a bitter crush on an ex-boyfriend. She cannot write a coherent pagel, let alone a single paragraph.
Jane Austen would laugh at these stupid, dumbass movies; but apparently you lack the intelligence that is far beyond you. Gloria Steinem--who I've had the privilege to see speak--probably has some interesting things to mention about this idiot author and moronic boos, but she's waiting to see just how much this movie fails.
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
Interesting how your point, which originally seemed to be some sort of low level intelligent debate about whether this franchise sets back women's rights (yes, I'm feeling just slightly generous enough to say that you were at least attempting to say something thought provoking before), has now become nothing more than the wounded ranting of the usual internet trolls who are more offended by the fact that either a)someone like EL James hit the literary jackpot with her fluffy little soft-core romance or b) the fact that the fans of the books and/or movies don't give as much of a rat's a ** about how "intelligent" or exemplary the whole thing is as much as the haters seem to. Which I have to say, says far more about the haters and how they view the world than it does about the readers of the Fifty Shades franchise. Readers just enjoy it for what it is and don't have to over-think it. That was my original point. But I disagreed with you so now you hate that I had the audacity do such a thing! I am truly sorry for having an opinion.
For your high and mighty information, I hate to disappoint your belief that only stupid,unintelligent women who don't normally read are the only ones who read EL James, I am an avid reader and have been my whole life, long before this series saw the light of day. As far as any classics go, I have read Jane Eyre; I have read Dracula, a true classic tale in my humble horror genre loving opinion; I have read To Kill a Mockingbird; read but didn't much care for the Catcher in the Rye; loved Of Mice and Men. Other than that, I generally stick to contemporary biographies. As a rule, I'm honestly not much into romances of any kind, preferring the music and horror genres. But I'll read anything that catches my eye, from the classics to the informative. I also happen to be a writer of my own real life relationship stories. Yes, they cover romances (No BDSM but real enough to include the sexual aspect of things) but they also cover the myriad of other relationships that humans deal with. It isn't fantastical or fantasy. It's life. So, no. EL James still does not influence how I read, write or live my life.
There are in fact a lot of successful authors out there who are not technically great writers, if you really care to examine their style. Maybe they're just a little better at crafting a narrative, or a piece of realistic dialogue. Or maybe they too just got lucky, found a niche and slipped right into it. Who's to say? Is it honestly all relative? In yet another opinion by me, yes it is. Your opinion is your own, but certainly not the end all be all of opinions on whether or not Fifty Shades is worthy of its success. Bottom line, it ain't all that important, which was, is and remains my overall point. The world does not stop because some lady in Britain wrote a story that happened, for whatever reason, to be just what a certain demographic was looking for at that moment in time. And she's hardly the purveyor of the rough sex with billionaire bad boys ideal. That's placing far too much significance on something that is little more than Harlequin romance for the new millennium.
[quoteThere are in fact a lot of successful authors out there who are not technically great writers, if you really care to examine their style][/quote].
So I repeat--since you're such a die-hard goddamn fan of this idiotic franchise:
Have you ever read a decent romantic novel in your life? I.e., Jane Austen or even "Wide Sargasso Sea" if that's what you're into, which is a way better BDSM movie if you really want to get into particulars? Yes I've read "Jane Eyre" and "Dracula" and "Of Mice and Men," and "Catcher and the Rye" and all of that.
But have you actually ever read a single thing by by Jane Austen? "Pride and Prejudice," "Mansfield Park," "Persuasion," etc.? In other words, REAL romance and sex novels?
I know the answer is "no." But that may change your take on this imbecile franchise, which you love so much! ;)
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
brian__007 » 13 hours ago (Sun Feb 12 2017 09:33:25)
IMDb member since May 2000
Post Edited: Sun Feb 12 2017 09:34:49
You're funny Starzshine! But where have you been on this board? You were missing for a while.
And BTW, if you want see a picture of my cock--which apparently you're seeking--just let me know and I can send a screenshot, my darling.
by brian__007 » 14 hours ago (Sun Feb 12 2017 09:28:07)
I totally agree! Because I work in the field of education, this is a very personal issue to me. I teach a lot of students who will never remember me, but I do hope to still instill some values that they'll keep in mind as they progress through their careers.
"Instill what values" exactly?
You'll have forgive me if i don't pay attention to your "thoughts" on literature, femininism or anything at all.,
How about values like respecting elders, respecting women's rights, respecting gay rights, respecting spousal abuse victims, etc?
You're too funny! And I do love your humor (at least we can have some good laughs together).
But you're also very late, my friend! FSD was a financial disappointment and a critical disaster! Do you at least acknowledge that by this point? Do you need a link to the 9% Rotten Tomatoes rating?
If you want to keep defending this and praising it, all the best, my dear.
This whole thing kind of reminds me of "My Best Friend's Wedding" or "Sweet November," where everyone knew that these were terrible movies, but the chicks couldn't stand that their movie sucked so they supported it anyway (these boards didn't exist at the time, which was maybe these films' downfall). I'm referring to critic reviews and not your average imdb fans. Yet even with the consensus opinion, women couldn't stand it and went after people like me. (And I was a movie reviewer and on Rotten Tomatoes if you want to dig into my history.)
So instead of attacking me, desperately, why don't you get a new hobby? And start watching actual good movies?
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
Since you missed, or simply chose to ignore my point that while I have read classic novels, I'll reiterate that I'm not much into romances, whether classic or contemporary. Since you're also so intent on "proving" a point about the intelligence of all Fifty Shades readers, you also fail on that point as I also maintained that I do read books, all kinds. Just because I haven't read a few specific books considered your personal choice as an intellectual high point, it STILL, no matter how hard you try and how petulant you want to be, doesn't take away from the fact that you have in no way proven your point with me anyway, that I happen to be unintelligent. I write "real" sex and romance. By real, I mean common everyday sexual relationship stories that reflect the lives of the kind of people I know and interact with on a daily basis. Not knights in shining armor of the fairy tale or classic romance variety, not royalty and not billionaires with helicopters and endless power. Yet I, like you mention in one of your earlier posts, can still read Fifty Shades and not think it is the epitome of real life, or even that flawless as a whole. You missed that point too in all your rambling. If you actually take the time to comprehend what I'm saying, I am in no way a "die-hard" defender of the series, it is not the only thing I read, and I never at any time claimed it was necessarily intelligent reading. I said only that I have read the books and seen the movies and it isn't worth all the hate that you or anyone else wants to level against it. It just is and if I choose to read it, that's my choice.
I should also add, in your attempt to prove it substandard writing--which I am in no way arguing against with this final point--maybe you don't realize that while the style is in fact fairly sloppy, in reference to your point that it is written like that of someone in grade school with a minor little crush, perhaps that style succeeds better than you realize. After all, it is written in the first person, from the point of view of a girl who is 22 years old, and not only a virgin, but downright virginal, as she's never had any experience with guys, sexual or otherwise, until she meets Christian. Her view and pattern of speech is going to be naive and giddy and unworldly. Just something to think about, assuming that you are "intelligent enough" to really think on a level that much outside the box of your pretentious little intellectually stimulated world
Excellent post. I have a lot of respect for you for that well-constructed argument.
I guess my main point is that these books/movies are so undeniably DUMB that it constantly amazes me that they actually make so much money. Perhaps that's my complaint as an author, published movie reviewer, screenwriter, etc. To keep this with the subject of this discussion, I don't think that many feminists do--and certainly should not--like such a dumb series like this. Do you know who Betty Friedan was? I'm quite certain that she would be appalled at these books.
You're right. It's a fantasy that probably shouldn't be taken seriously. But here's where you're wrong: the movies have grossed millions or even billions of dollars. Why?
And since we're on authors, have you read Jonathan Franzen? Compared to E.L. James, this is the guy who should be getting millions.
When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading!
Well, I'll thank you for that anyway, and say I'm respectful of your finally deciding to debate without vitriol. It's far more productive, right? BUT I decline to acknowledge any wrongness on my part for the idea that while I feel it shouldn't be taken that seriously, it nonetheless is taken seriously enough that the books have become bestsellers and every screening at our local theater on opening weekend was sold out. Maybe it shouldn't be taken seriously, but the fact that it is and why is out of my hands or ability to comment on definitively. Why ask why? (Isn't that the slogan for some old commercial, ha) You'll drive yourself nuts, which I have to wonder if that hasn't happened to you already, lol. Again, no disrespect. But I literally see you pulling your hair out and banging your head against your computer keyboard at the incomprehensible success of Fifty Shades. All we can say is EL James did hit the literary jackpot. She got very lucky. Because there are a lot of truly good writers out there who never catch their big break into the mainstream. And I think to blame it on anything, men, other women, the lack of feminism, whatever is frankly pointless. Taken in perspective and at face value, strange and incomprehensible things happen. May god bless EL and her newfound success and riches. Meanwhile, small hobby writers like me can wonder what it would be like to make millions off of a story I wrote and win the admiration of readers for constructing a tale that touches their hearts and minds in some significant way, lol. I for one don't know if I have the chops to make the New York Times Bestseller list, but I consider it moot. I have enough foresight to know I don't care for the fame, and I don't need millions. My writing has proven to be good therapy and that's the only purpose I need it to serve
shareHa ha, I agree to many of your points, and I do appreciate that you're a gifted writer who makes her intelligent points clear (unlike a lot of people on this board!)
And perhaps any vitriol for me on this movie is because I'm trying to make it myself as a screenwriter in Hollywood, so it's still unbelievable how this thing has made so much money... I constantly ask myself: don't people realize how bad this series is?
I for one don't know if I have the chops to make the New York Times Bestseller list, but I consider it moot.
Yeah, it's too bad. I just found out within the last week that they were going to disable the message boards. I never utilized them much, but while IMDb is probably right that it isn't as positive a place as it could be, some of the discussions were interesting. Like this one But there you go. The powers that be have made their decision apparently. Hey, I wish you luck in your endeavors anyway. I know it's simplistic, but maybe start by relaxing a little. Enjoy your work and your creativity. Such is easy to say for someone who has no desire for fame or fortune from my own work, I get it. But maybe the message will be clearer if I leave you with a fun suggestion. I don't know if you care about the Shawshank Redemption (Hey, now. Stephen King. There's a man who has a lot to say on writing), but if you haven't seen it before, try finding a copy of the two disc edition of the DVD. Check out the spoof on the special features called "The Sharktank Redemption" that makes me think of your situation, and the overall message of that, like the original movie itself, can be interesting for those who dare to dream of bigger and better things.
share"And adult women have far more sense than to muddle fantasy and reality"
Really, you think so? I honestly highly doubt that for ALOT of women, and men also, especially those that like utter trash like 50 shades, because it is trying to be realistic, for many living a BDSM lifestyle is just their lives, not a fantasy it is reality, but 50 shades is not about BDSM its about abuse, something most viewers and readers seem to completely miss.
50 shades is not about BDSM its about abuse, something most viewers and readers seem to completely miss.huh????? share
No one "misses" anything of the sort except those who don't realize the difference between abuse and sexual practices like BDSM. Quit trying to act like you know anything about actual abuse when you "miss" completely what constitutes that and what constitutes a fictional depiction of a specific sexual lifestyle. So go ahead and spout some profanity at me for calling you out on that completely unfounded and oft repeated contention of abuse in a fictional story about unreal people who were never abused in any way shape or form.
shareThis movie is not worse than many brainless movies made for men (example - Transformers).
Fifty Shades are not doing any harm to anyone, imo. What we need is an equal distribution of male and female characters in movies, equal number of movies with male and female leads, equal number of female directors. Obviously there will be good movies and bad movies for women, but right now there isn't much of a choice, never was.
no cause in their backwards logic doing what the boys do *beep* around promiscuously is justified . feminists want to be like the bad boys that women fall for and then complain that they despise but secretly have dick envy for
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life.
No, because that is just more deflection
share[deleted]