MovieChat Forums > Mr. Church (2016) Discussion > Questions I had (spoilers)

Questions I had (spoilers)

posted 8 years ago by eddiecantor
15 replies | jump to latest

The big question people have, of late, regarding Eddie Murphy is can he still be funny.

I am assured that he can. It might be odd to make this claim after watching his southern drama Mr. Church, but he is so true and so likeable here. And his comedy generally comes from his honest likeability.

If Mr. Church, which takes place mostly in the 1970s, had been made a few decades ago, it could have starred Sidney Poitier. His lack of warmth and actorly dignity might have made Charlotte's request to know him better a moot point. Despite being a film that could have starred Poitier, it is worth noting and refreshing that the film does not deal in race, just in family drama.

The film is an odd drama; there is really no catharsis for any character or the audience. This is because it is perhaps subtle at the wrong moments, like those dealing with death and Mr. Church's secrets (he is a closeted homosexual who plays piano at a bar is a questionable reputation). And it is melodramatic at the wrong moments, some scenes of Charlotte's daughter (the butterfly story is great but to see the butterfly later was kind of weak) and a terrible scene involving Charlotte's best friend Poppy that could take one out of the movie, with its falseness and sense of self righteousness.

The film is very much worth seeing despite any problem. It has memorable lines such as when the mother character tells her daughter. Your father was the mistake you were the miracle. It extols the virtues of reading. Eddie Murphy is wonderful, as usual, deserving of kudos and awards talk. He is a treasure that gets audiences but never enough credit for talent and creativity. Christian Madsen plays a character named Larsen really well. I wish there was more of that character and a little less of Charlotte who provides all the exposition and is a bitch through much of the movie.

Questions I had while watching

What was her boyfriend's issue about kissing?
If Jelly was a friend why did he let him get wasted every time he went there?
What was his hangover cure?
How did Poppy make it so fast, and why didn't she seek out her friend and help her from the start?

[–] movieforme 8 years ago

I can't answer any of your questions but I would like to agree about your statement about Charlotte. I thought she was ungrateful and undeserving of everything she got from Mr. Church. So much so that I found their relationship to be unconvincing and awkward. I don't know if that was the fault of the screenwriter or the actress, but I have seen other movies where this actress portrays her characters in a way that makes me unable to sympathize with them and they often leave a bad taste in my mouth. I'm leaning more towards it being the actresses depiction of the character that makes her come off this way.

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

Honestly, I couldn't disagree more ... except maybe if it's just the 10 year old Charley you have in mind? That young Charley was a brat to be sure! However, even at that young age Mr Church won her over pretty quickly ... that was a key part of the story and a lot of fun to watch I thought. Once won over, Charley was so very, very, very much in love with Mr Church ... not romantically of course, but as we find out, he's for all practical purposes, to her, the father she never knew. Remember that scene where she's at home with Mr Church and says something to the effect of "the baby was me ... and Mr Church was everything else." Her gratitude, honor, respect and love for Mr Church were almost palpable in that moment.

Britt Robertson who played Charlotte for most of the movie, as a grown-up, is a new actress to me; but I thought she gave a wonderful performance. Between her performance and a wonderful script, I thought Charlotte was very appealing and very convincing throughout the movie.

[–] eddiecantor 8 years ago

I see what you mean. The actress is colder than I would have liked in a number of scenes, including interactions with daughter. She is quite convincing with Larsen though.

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

Ah I think you may have a point about her being "colder" ... though I wouldn't use that term, I'd say she was restrained. One thing I really liked about this actress is how she conveyed at the same time great emotion and great restraint in to me a very, very natural way. I think we're meant to take this side of her personality as learned from Mr. Church. Mr. Church was her father figure from such an early age and she looked up to him so much that it was natural that she would take after him as much or perhaps even more than her mother. She talks about her dying mother's dying heat and fire - her mother is to her "the sun". But Mr. Church was to her "the moon." He's cool, reserved, dignified, with enormous wisdom and enormous honor and respect for others, especially her mother and for her. Charlotte of course saw through his reserve ... and developed, along with her love for Mr. Church, a deeply respectful reserve seeking to match his own. The scenes with the books ... with that charming smile of Charlotte hinting at much deeper feelings ... but always respectful of Mr. Church's "check out card" system ... but oh I had to smile every time the books and the library card came up. The final scene with Mr. Church ... when she had found him passed away ... was just perfect: she was overwhelmed with sorrow and began crying out and then promptly tried ... and failed ... to put back on her reserve ... "Oh Mr. Church ..." and then she couldn't hold it together and kissed and sobbed into his limp hand. That to me is Charlotte all through the movie ... after she got over her initial 10 year old brattiness ... a young lady full of her mother's sunniness and fire, and also full of Mr Church's deep honor, love, and respect conveyed through, rather than hindered by, his deep, loving, reserve.

My take anyway ... :)

[–] phelix-josie 8 years ago

Brilliant, beautiful observations! Makes me a bit weepy all over again ?

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

Interesting comments ... I agree with some of what you say, but definitely not about Charlotte ... except of course at the beginning of the movie ... definitely not exactly pleasant at age 10! But she changed pretty convincingly and was sheer delight for the balance of the movie.

As for your questions, here's my take:

What was her boyfriend's issue about kissing?
He wasn't her b.f. he was a guy who took her to the prom. After the prom, he was nervous as could be ... so was she. He pretty clearly began to go in for that kiss ... and then got nervous and chickened out. That's all.

If Jelly was a friend why did he let him get wasted every time he went there?
Interesting question but way too little to know really what Jelly's relationship was with Mr. Church. Jelly's joint was a jazz piano bar though, and Mr. Church hung out there to play jazz piano, but it's hard not to imagine him getting caught up in the drinking as well. But to me one of the great things about a movie like this is that there are a LOT of sort of hints of "more" that we just don't know about and would like to know more about. That's life though ... and this is a good life drama, so ...

What was his hangover cure?
Not stated but implied: cooking breakfast.

How did Poppy make it so fast, and why didn't she seek out her friend and help her from the start?
Again this is one of those things we just don't know enough about. I really liked Poppy's place in the whole story though, and am OK with that "snob scene" you didn't like ... that scene led to one of Mr Church's moving counsels to Charley: "whatever it was, forgive her." She did, and we see Poppy at the Wake. Works great in the story overall.

[–] eddiecantor 8 years ago

I like what you said about the prom date, but I could have used a little more in the film. Are they going to date eventually? Why did he wait til the night before he left for college to confess feelings; the movie cannot be faulted for these things, but it's all kind of a shame.

And yes one of the more moving scenes was Mr. Church telling her to forgive Poppy. It's just too bad, for my tastes, the prior scene was so overplayed.

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

I think I see what you mean. I think all (or almost all) stories have all kinds of paths and trails leading away into the shadows outside of the perimeters of the story don't they. Lots of times we hardly notice them, the central story and plot & subplots are so strong. Which is OK that's just how a lot of stories are.

The story-line in this movie though seems to be a bit different in that it has a lot of paths off into the darkness and shadows that we in the audience don't find so easy to dismiss. So many of those paths off into the shadows are really very, very inviting. Some movies are like that. Atonement comes to mind but there are plenty out there. And yes, I feel that pull too ... I'd love to know more about Charlotte & her date ... and Charlotte and her other dates; and about Charlotte at college; and about Charlotte's Mom ... she's so interesting and appealing and man I'd love to know m ore of her story. Also I'd love to know more about Mr Church and Jelly and Jelly's place ... and about Jelly, seemed like a really interesting Dude .. and Mr Church growing up (must have been rough) ...

But honestly I think what makes stories like this ... and Atonement ... so poignant in part is exactly because we in the audience are brought to be acutely aware of the much bigger world, and then kept being brought back again and again to the main story line. In Mr. Church, a big part of the story is finding the miracles in the tiny here-and-now things in life; and the hints of miracles amid tragedies off in the shadows and twilight helps to bring deeper meaning to the central story line. So we get hints and that's it ... ah my ... sigh ... :-)

[–] 8 years ago

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[–] robtadrian 8 years ago

Closeted homosexual? He is seen outside Jelly's flirting with 2 women (when the girls drive by him in a VW). The only way I could see this is because he says any man and a woman can get married at the wedding (talking about his previous marriage). But just because he likes to cook and garden and paint?

[–] eddiecantor 8 years ago

When he is drunk and murmuring to his father, he says "You wanna call me a f*g, I'll show you a f*g."

The narrator mentions Jelly's having a reputation. He says he couldn't be married and was not what his wife was looking for.

I am reading between lines here, but there is enough there I think

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

I don't remember the "f*g" talk. I'll sure keep a weather eye (or ear) out for it ... I'm probably going to see the movie again this weekend. Even if there in context I'm not sure I'd read too much into it beyond abusive "trash talk" by his father. I do remember Mr Church's convo with Charlotte about his previous marriage but "not what she was looking for" doesn't sound like any hint of closeted anything in Mr Church ... sounds like the kind of thing a lot of men ... and women ... say after break-ups and could mean a LOT of different things.

Mr. Church actually comes across to me as being frankly a very masculine, manly, man. I think he comes across that way to Charlotte and her mother, too; and to the folks down at Jelly's from that brief glance we get of him outside of the place.

Sexuality ... and gender and race ... all have a place in the story, but really not much. Frankly surprised me but also delighted me. I think a big theme in the movie is finding miracles in the midst not only of tragedy, but in the midst of appearances that might otherwise be thought to overwhelm and hide the miracles.

My 2 bits anyway. I really liked the movie and think I'll try to catch it again this weekend.

[–] robtadrian 8 years ago

aah i missed that all i could think of when he was drunk was his imitation of his stepdad talking about Aunt Bunny and her mustache...

[–] C_Lee_2 8 years ago

Good points all.

[–] miknos 8 years ago

Owen didn't kissed her in the prom because he was shy.

He played in a bar. There was plenty pig drinks there.

He did breakfast to "cure" his hangover.

Poppy married twice. Since she was pretty, she was able to marry rich men.