Once again...
99.9% of this entire debate is distraction and deflection from the real truth. Because, regardless of whether Turner's actions shifted the dates ending slavery a few months or even years in either direction, it's still barely even a blip on the historical radar of racial violence in America. Because, again, slavery ended...and lo and behold...it was replaced (and expanded) immediately with a fully nationwide program of legal, and often even more brutally enforced, racial segregation. Itself inarguably predicated on the very same inerrant supremacy of whiteness. And essentially exhibiting the exact same psychological motives as those behind chattel slavery itself! (Simply a very tiny bit more covert regarding external appearances.)
Now fast forward a whopping 150 years to today's elections.
And unless you're blind, it's virtually impossible to mistake that the battle lines are still very much centered around this very same issue, right now! Whiteness. Because, if we were truly being above-board, and legitimately debating, for example, possible paths to economic stability? Then Republican rallies would be noticeably much more mixed. Law and order? Mixed rallies. Jobs? Mixed rallies. Healthcare and education? Mixed. Immigration? Mixed. Taxes. Yep. Because those are all issues that matter to almost everyone of every color. But those rallies are unmistakably almost exclusively white. So, one of the many blaring questions is this. Is there a continuing connection between America going from past policies of hideously violent chattel slavery, strictly in the South, to hideously violent Apartheid nationwide, to now not-so-coincidentally this current racial dynamic a full 150 years later? A connection that clearly says, "we don't actually care about Trump's views on xenophobia, sexism, sexual assault, ethics, sanctity of marriage, abortion, or any of that stuff"! "We simply care about his commitment to whiteness above all else!" "And as such, our rallies are almost exclusively white because our true focus is still on preserving the sanctity of whiteness."
Now, would that not be a far better and more honest discussion than pretending that it's important to debate -- even now -- the role that the racial brutality of one single Nat Turner rebellion played on 200 years of utter institutionalized racial torture and genocide? And likewise, the very outsized role that a fictionalized movie about that lone rebellion is now playing in current discussions about racial violence, almost 200 years later (given, again, the event's actual historical context)? Because, in actuality, the enormous thread that ties then and now together should be overwhelmingly obvious. Despite the blaring exclusivity of those Trump rallies, we're still pretending perpetuating whiteness is not a real thing.
So, in other words, are we ever going to stop beating around the bush, and truly have an honest discussion about the role that whiteness (far beyond just slavery) has played in bringing us to this point? And along with it, the multitude of ways that it has evolved into what we now see in today's almost exclusively white crowds of the Republican party. Because essentially the story of the brutality of Nat Turner (and especially, these very discussions about his effect on the institution of chattel slavery) is but an almost pointless drop in the proverbial ocean, regarding a more and more overwhelming need to be honest about now more than 500 years of unbroken racial violence, and it's directly connected effects and legacies on today.
To somewhat paraphrase AG Holder. Eventually we're going to have to stop being a nation of cowards regarding race.
No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.
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Teriek-Williams
8 years ago
Please, no conversations on whiteness or white supremacy. Its not going anywhere. Poor black people are taking their place as the permanent underclass and only they can change it. For years, people say "we need to have an honest discussion." The time for discussion is over. The problems and solutions are obvious. The only conversation worth having is one detailing the goals and plans to enact them. Anything else is a waste of time... at the least for me.
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littlegeorgie
8 years ago
The time for discussion is over.
Then why even visit the DISCUSSION boards of (and much more importantly, personally engage in dozens and dozens of conversations about) movies like this, that ARE fundamentally historical in nature? AND, without exception, ALWAYS about the suffering of black folk at the hands of whites. On paper, it seems like you simply have very specific subjects related to that past that you have no interest in discussing. But outside of those "not going anywhere" things, you're apparently more than willing to engage -- greatly even. So is there an aspect of "the time for discussion is over" that I'm not understanding? Because apparently depending on whether it's subject matter that you approve of, you've exerted an awful lot of time and energy in the recent past "discussing" this very stuff, quite repeatedly on boards very much explicitly ABOUT this very stuff. So, at the very least, based on your frustration with the apparent "woe is us" tone of discussions on the boards of historical movies, would it not then make sense to self-limit your visits to the boards of movies more concerned with more contemporary stories and/or takes on these issues? Or, again, is it not ALL "bringing up the past" that bothers you, but just some very specific conversations about it?
"Enquiring minds want to know."
No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.
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Teriek-Williams
8 years ago
I visited the discussion board to answer a question about Nat Turner and not in a movie context. It was a historical question I was being asked. You've turned that into a quest to end racism. Thus, we're not discussing the same thing. I'm talking about a historical tidbit. You have a social change agenda, one that I have no faith in going anywhere. That's not to say that it isn't valid. I just don't believe its going anywhere.
Furthermore, you're telling me that we need to have a discussion about whiteness. I'm telling you that in this country, I'm tired of "discussing" things. I'm only interesting in doing something. Every issue from race to wealth is like the gun debate. A bunch of kids get killed by a crazy shooter. We say we need to talk about it. We talk and nothing happens. We all know what the issues are, where we stand and what the possible solutions are. There's nothing left to discuss there. There's only doing.
If we're going to discuss things we've discussed in this country for centuries, we're just basking in the bitterness of the powerless. I have no interest in that. I only have an interest in what we're going to do. Not white people, not the government. I only have an interest in our actions. Forget talk.
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littlegeorgie
8 years ago
We all know what the issues are, where we stand and what the possible solutions are. There's nothing left to discuss there. There's only doing.
As utterly astounding as it may sound to you, we're actually in agreement about it all going absolutely nowhere. Except...for very opposing reasons. I too believe that there's almost no chance that it's going to change anytime remotely soon. But, as opposed to us "all knowing what the issues are", I instead am absolutely convinced that after 500 years of continuous and astronomical race-based inhumanity, we have what's been succinctly referred to as "a commitment to ignorance". It's the only reasonable explanation for why after 500 years, we still have things like referring to Native Americans as "Indians"; for why Columbus is still anything close to a national hero; and why most Americans don't know the difference between the Tuskegee Airman and the Tuskegee experiment, is because we've been fundamentally committed the entire time to maintaining our collective ignorance about such things (Texas schoolbook controversy, anyone?). And with it, the moral responsibility to do anything about it.
Now here's where the fireworks potentially start.
I also greatly believe that there is not the slightest requirement for us to DO anything about it! Discussing or otherwise. Why??? Two words. Demographic change. To be precise, huge demographic change that has been quietly happening (and accelerating) for the last 50 years.
So as a result, it comes down to this relatively simple equation. Either people finally acknowledge and adapt to that fast moving demographic change, or the social change that automatically goes with it simply runs them over like a tidal wave.
So... ...don't have an agenda. ...don't need one. It's already been going on relentlessly like water for more than 50 years. Whether we CHOOSE to accept it or not!
No man lies so boldly as the man who is indignant.
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Teriek-Williams
8 years ago
I actually felt there were in agreement on the basic concept, but that you misinterpreted my "time for discussion is over."
Stuff like Indian over Native American is child's play. Its probably just become a figure a speech more than an actual view. The important issue is who is writing the textbook and how to change that. Mobilization is the only solution there.
In terms of national hero, Columbus is seen as a hero because the Italian lobby doesn't want to concede that. Furthermore, white people in general are very reluctant about changing their view of the people who created the place they live and thrive. Before they apologize for the things they've benefited from, they'll defend it tooth and nail because to let go of it is almost like a hit on their sense of dignity.
Changing demographics will change the discourse, but it won't change the hold of white supremacy over the country. Having a majority or plurality doesn't matter. The South Africans had that. The important thing is who is controlling things and how.
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