A Back to the Future Time Heist.
Overall a decent movie and I was expecting some sort of time travel to defeat Thanos. Killing Black Widow and Iron Man was kind of a let down though.
shareThe romp back and forth through time was too comical. It had a 3 Stooges vibe. I also kept waiting for the Benny Hill music to start when they were sneaking around.
shareIt's very nostalgia-driven too. I imagine 10 years from now if we watch this movie again it would look very silly.
shareYeah, I have to agree as well. I also think Infinity War was overall a better movie too.
shareIt's very nostalgia-driven too. I imagine 10 years from now if we watch this movie again it would look very silly.
^^^
While I personally thought the 1st hour was good, The 2nd hour or time Heist was Weak but for me the 3rd hour was the greatest hour in the history of the CBM Genre...
as for you 10 year prediction, your entitled to your opinion, and no one could really know for sure whats going to happen in 10 years, but if I had to make a prediction, all I could do is look at the facts....
and I got to say, the fact dont even remotely suggest people will see this movie as Silly in 10 years....
Its got Excellent Reviews(Literally among the best ever for a CBM), Its got Insane ratings on all major sites, Its gotten the absolute best audience scores you can get....I'm sorry but I think you are letting your own personal opinion for the film cloud your judgement about what Others think of the movie and Will Think of the movie in the future
I think Endgame's Legacy secure as A truly great CBM
I remember in 2012, when Avengers 1 came out....All the hardcore DC fans were really angry that Avengers dominated the summer and beat TDKR....and They relentless repeated..."So what Enjoy you Kiddie Avengers movie, In 5 years no one will remember it and TDKR will be praised as the masterpiece it is and better than Avengers"
fast forward 7 years later....Avengers 1 is still looked at as one of the greatest CBMs ever and Is Universally ranked Ahead of TDKR in the majority of POLLS and articles ranking the best CBMs ever...
for me, If I had to predict anything...In 10 or 20 years I think Endgame Will be remembered and praised for being one of the greatest closing chapters to a series,characters, and story lines...
I'm not sure Endgame 20 years from will be remembered as the greatest CBM ever or anything, I just think it will have a CONCRETE Legacy as something truly special and will be mentioned in the same league as Return of The King for closing a series and characters out with Mastery....
also and this is just my own opinion...
I think The Avengers Theme is going to be ICONIC in 20 or 30 years....
Ive always had the opinion The Scores and Music has been the weakest part of the MCU and MCU films(aside from The Score in The First Thor movie, Ive never felt any of them were special)
When The Avengers and AOU came out, I thought The Avengers Theme was good but not Great.
I must say...Between Infinity War and Now Endgame and especially The Trailers and Marketing how Marvel Studios really incorporated The score in...
I now Find Silverstri's Avengers Score absolutely ICONIC....
I absolutely believe in 30 years from now that Score Will be as ICONIC as the Star Wars Theme.
In Both Infinity War and Endgame There were Sequences where The Avengers Score Literally Gave Me Goosebumps and Truly ADDED Powerful Emotion to sequences...
Thor's Arrival In Infinity War During The Battle and then we get The Avengers Score is CHILLING
and then IMO The greatest moment in CBM history , The Climax of Endgame and sequence with the arrival of The MCU With The Avengers score is Just ICONIC....the score adds so much to this scene, Its almost like another beloved character...
Just my opinion though...
Avengers made more money than TDKR true but it also had 3d in order to boost it's ticket price.
Second critically TDKR beats it barely. If you go by average score on RT they both have a 8/10 average score. While on metacritic TDKR has a higher average score. So close call critically but TDKR slightly wins.
Third on imdb the biggest user movie website TDKR is securely on the top 250 actually in the top 70 to be exact. where as Avengers is not even on the list.
Fourth it aged better because it was done practically with little cgi or green screen where as Avengers was loaded with it. Practical use as opposed to cgi or green screen always ages better. It is why a movie like Blade Runner 2049 will age better than anything in the MCU. Fourth point is my opinion but I stand by it.
So no not true sorry bill. All my first three points refute you saying avengers is better than TDKR by the masses opinion. The dark knight still remains the best comic book reviewed film of them all even after endgame.
Avengers made more money than TDKR true but it also had 3d in order to boost it's ticket price.
^^^
Nice try but Desperate DC fans tried this one too back in 2012
Avengers 1 out grossed TDKR NOT COUNTING Its 3D....
The Math is something Like Avengers would have made around 1.2 B+ without 3D
as for your other Points....the only one that remotely holds weight is the is your Meta point(which I discuss further in a moment)
as for your other points, There have been articles written about the what happened with Nolans films on IMDB...Nolan Literally had a CULT following him down voting films ahead of him and voting His Films up(now I'm in no way suggesting Nolans films arent Great) just that their IMDB scores arent reliable
When I talk Nolan's film and talk their Greatness, I always point to Their reviews instead IMDB score....for me TDKR,Inception, The Prestige and The Memento are Masterpieces, it actually makes me SAD what fans did with those movies on IMDB....theres a lot of Nolan haters out there, That Like to claim Those Movies arent as great as The scores say, and While I agree The IMDB score arent reliable, They seem to be IGNORING the fact that The reviews are Excellent and those werent tampered with
So...I guess your more than within your right to put faith in The top 250 and TDKR IMDB rating..I dont and not trying to be mean, But I'm right.
I'll go with The The reviews/Critically Consensus and thats Nearly Identical
its 1 to 1...
Avengers wins on RT...Its got a 92% RT score with a 8/10 Average against TDKR 87% RT score with a 8/10 Average
Avengers Wins
On Meta TDKR wins
So If were speaking ONLY Critically Consensus, If were being honest, Its a tie
I'm certainly not going around saying Avengers or TDKR has the better reviews, The Consensus is just to close
as for your opinion that TDKR has aged better, thats entirely your opinion...and I would suggest the facts easily point to Avengers 1 being held in a Higher regard today than TDKR....
thers no getting around the DOZENS of POLLS and articles done in the last 5 years where In LITERALLY 90% of them Avengers 1 is ranked higher than TDKR in the "Best CBM's" articles or polls....
You may have the opinion TDKR is the better film technically, you may prefer the methods used in TDKR over the Mthods used in Avengers 1....
But thats your Opinion...Based on The Majority of People opinions of which movie they like more and rank higher NOW....Its really not close....Avengers 1 is consistently in The top 3 of The Greatest CBMs POLLS and articles...TDKRs consistently in the 15 to 5 range...
Basically the ONLY real point you made was Meta's consensus...but unfortunately, Avengers wins on RT ....so The Critically consensus is a draw
The IMDB points I personally Give no Credibility too and again I'm not trying to be mean but I'M RIGHT...Nolan's Fans/Cult unfortunately went FULL Retard on his movies and Movies in competition with his movies and unfortunately made his IMDB rating completely reliable....Luckily though we Have Excellent reviews to fall back on that not been tampered with
and as for your 3D comment...Im sorry but your just wrong....Believe me...I was a regular on the IMDB board in 2012....DC Fans TRIED Everything!...
Claiming "Avengers had 3D" was one of thier go to moves when it became clear TDKR wasnt going to top Avengers...
Luckily It was easy and Just Math to figure up exactly how much Avengers Benefited from 3D and Avengers 1 still Outgrossed TDKR
hell someone even figured up you could take away the 3D from Avengers and still give TDKR the advantage in had from IMAX and TDKR still didnt match Avengers 1 gross
So While theres no doubt If we are Judging Avengers and TDKR ONLY on Critically consensus...Its a draw...you cant factually say either one is the winner
but If were talking how the films have aged and how They are viewed today...Its just not close Avengers 1 is clearly looked at as the better film and has the better legacy .
also not exactly sure why you bought TDK up.... no where did I remotely suggest TDK wasnt the best reviewed CBM...
I said the Avengers got a boost from 3d ticket prices. I did not say if you took that away that it would have grossed less than TDKR. The grossing of a movie is a useless debate anyway it does not necessarily determine quality. Not saying Avengers is bad by any means just saying a movie's gross does not determine it's quality. The Avengers did beat TDKR in box office even without 3d I fully acknowledge that.
I see so the imdb scores do not matter because they favor The Dark Knight films. I did not deny Nolan had a cult following, however thing is it does not change the fact that even before that his films were on the top 250. Before The Dark Knight came out which is where he really exploded into the mainstream Memento and Batman begins were on the top 250 and rather high also. Even when it was just Memento it was on the top 250. I have been a member of imdb since 1998.
Now do I put much stock in imdb? Personally I put more stock in Rottentomatoes and metacritic. I agree with you there but if you are going to give polls weight it is only fair imdb has some weight also. Avengers Infinity War sits securely on the top 250 where as Avengers does not. So it shows that an MCU film is perfectly capable of making that list. Avengers just did not.
I will throw your quote right back. You're more than within your right to put stock in polls with the Avengers being ahead of TDKR but I don't. Not to be mean but I have a case here.
I go by the average score. The tomato meter is just the amount of critics that liked it. The accumulative score means more than the tomato meter. Spy Kids for instance is not better than Blade Runner 2049 even though it has a higher tomato meter score. Here is the thing though among top critics TDKR has a higher accumulative score on RT. Now Avengers barely edges it out on the tomato meter but on metacritic it is a clear win for TDKR. I can throw my hands up and go okay it is a toss up though. So fair enough there.
I do not put stock in polls just like how you do not put stock in imdb scores. See how that is? Therefore no definitive way to determine which is the better film.
Also no if you factor in imdb score then it leans towards TDKR by a wide margin. If you get to eliminate Imdb from the conversation then another person gets to eliminate polls. How do we know those polls have not been tampered with like you claimed imdb was?
When you are talking about how the films has aged vs how the people perceive it over time is a completely different point altogether. Blade Runner was not well received when it first came out nor was Alien. Thing is both of those films got better received over time and have aged way better than something such as the Avatar. The main reason being both of those do not use cgi. CGI can be a great tool but when it is overdone it makes your movie date quickly. Practical holds up better. If you use cgi that is amazing such as Planet of the apes films I am all for it. Thing is Avengers did not have revolutionary cgi for it's time. It was not bad but it was not revolutionary by any means.
Terminator 2 gets a lot of it's accolades because those cgi effects were jaw dropping when the film was released. So when you say how it is perceived later vs holding up I view that differently.
@billbrown
So...you say Endgame is a truly "great CBM movie" but you also claim the first hour is merely "good", the second hour is "weak" and it doesn't become "great" until the final hour?
LOL
I think all those "countless viewings" of a TRULY "weak" movie(Aquaman) have made you a little waterlogged in your grasp of what words mean.
So...you say Endgame is a truly "great CBM movie" but you also claim the first hour is merely "good", the second hour is "weak" and it doesn't become "great" until the final hour?
^^^
Not Just truly Great....But IMO a top 5 CBM ever....
with the greatest last hour ever put on film in The CBM genre
queen do you have a hard time Grasping that people can be honest?
The first hour was very good, deep, serious and emotional....The Second hour for me at least was the weakest part of the movie, I dont think it was bad, I just wasnt Invested in the Time Heist....But The it Culminates in The Great Thing I've ever seen..
thats a truly Great Movie....
I think all those "countless viewings" of a TRULY "weak" movie(Aquaman) have made you a little waterlogged in your grasp of what words mean.
^^^
Naw....My Grasp is just fine....
I've watched Aquaman 3 times....Enjoy it despite having an awful story and terrible acting....
Its fun....
you truly cant get any enjoyment out of the film at all?
PS...
speaking of "grasping" have you finally started to grasp that Those Presales and tracking werent meaningless?
It seems while I and the rest of the world Completely Understood the historic Presale we were seeing, You on the other hand couldnt "grasp" what you were looking at and instead believed everyone was over reacting and hyperventilating....
does breaking every box office records there is help you Grasp the fact that YOU simply Under estimated the Presales and just didnt understand what you were looking at
Yes, it would have been better had they actually devised this sequence of events earlier in the saga to deliberately set up an epic convergence in the storyline that would have made us go 'uh-huh!' when watching.
I personally would have even liked to have had it occur in Cap's day with Tony's father being one of the main heroes to help set them straight - that would have been more touching than the chit-chat.
Instead it was just pure nostalgia for some cheap laughs.
I think after the nostalgia phase subsided, they can release a "Thanos Saga Edit" that consists of basically Infinity War plus most of Endgame with the time machine heist arc abridged into a 4 or 5 hours epic movie. Because, to be honest, Endgame is not a stand-alone movie. It's Infinity War: Part II. They should be made into one. I definitely would buy that on DVD.
shareLooks silly now...lol
share