Watched it last night-- Captain Marvel could have been a male character and literally nothing in the film would have needed changing. There was zero messaging, and no checklist of SJW topics being worked through. All the fear on the part of the film's detractors was for naught.
shareYou didn't watch it very well then.
Taking The head off a cardboard cutout of a famous movie action star (trying not to give spoilers away).
No love interest becuase a woman cannot be seen needing a man unlike Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Ant Man, Incredible Hulk, Black Panther, Guardians, Spiderman standalone movies who all had love interests but no not Captain Marvel.
Basically she is constantly told that she isn't good enough, held back and then finally breaks free from her shackles, you couldn't be anymore on the nose of male patriachy if you tried but obviously people just miss it or really don't care.
She never allows gherself to be spoken to in certain ways by a man, she always tries to speak above them.
There are many more, very subtle but they are they.
Also there is a reason that the comic book has had to be rebooted so many times, it's not a popular charcater, she is Marvels Mary Sue becuase they needed a Wonder Woman. A charcater that has no equal, has no issues, never has to overcome anything is stale and boring hence why the comic has failed miserablly especially the Carol Danvers ark. Why this was never the original Mar Vell (i am aware of Shazam but thats a whole other story) and then over many films could have changed to the other versions like the way Spiderman did with Miles Morales.
Next time don't make a statment as fact without evidence.
You're reading far too much into things. She saw what she thought was someone in the doorway and shot, but it was a movie poster. There was no subversive message there, just a funny moment of her being spooked by a poster and blasting the head off of it.
Everything else you describe is part of most all superhero films. Wasn't Steve Rogers constantly told he wasn't good enough, and even after becoming a super soldier held back doing USO shows?
You *want* to see evidence of something that isn't there, but if you watch pretty much any other Marvel film and imagine the lead character as female, you can make the same case. Tony Stark never allows himself to be spoke to in a certain way/speaks over people, nor does Thor, or the Hulk. You're pretty much just identifying typical hero moments and because the hero in this film is female misidentifying them as feminist messaging.
Steve Rogers was never told he wasn't good enough. He had a ton of illnesses that prevented him from joining the army, it's explained quite clearly in the movie. He defied his superior to save his friend and submitted to punishment once returned, that is not speaking over people, that is being respecful to your superiors.
No love interest even though ther is one in every standalone Marvel movie. It's called the Bechdel Test.
The Bechdel Test, sometimes called the Mo Movie Measure or Bechdel Rule is a simple test which names the following three criteria: (1) it has to have at least two women in it, who (2) who talk to each other, about (3) something besides a man. It's basically the go to device to oust men, Star Trek Discovery a prime example.
Captain Marvel speaking above the other male charcaters is nothing like Tony Stark or Thor. Thor is a spolit brat and Tony Stark is a megalomaniac Billionaire Playboy. Carol Danvers is a nobody with superiors to answer to and speaks over them. Even the lack of facial expression, can woman not be happy in a movie, can they not smile, why not.
I watched Wonder Woman, great film did not see any feminist message in that, because they didn't push one. Captain Marvel is Marvel's SJW Mary Sue. She answers to no one and can do everything becuase MArvel needed a Wonder Woman competitor.
If you cannot see it then that's fine, you are entitled to your opinion and unlike other people on this and many forums i will not result to name calling. But trust me it is their clear as day. If it wasn't then their would not be so many people picking up on it. Even the advertisement was claimed as a feminist movie and an agenda driven movie so it makes sense that they would push certain ideas within the movie.
Everything else you describe is part of most all superhero films. Wasn't Steve Rogers constantly told he wasn't good enough, and even after becoming a super soldier held back doing USO shows?
Steve Rogers was said that he was not good enough because he clearly was not good enough. Being a soldier requires a physical minimum. After becoming a super soldier, he's kept far from battle, and there's a reason for it: since he's extremely strong, but not invulnerable to bullets, being taken down (quite likely, since he would be a primary target) could be a moral blow to the troops.
On the contrary, the feminist "women held down" trope is about a woman shown a skilled and capable (sometimes as extremely skilled and capable, even a mary sue), who es held down by men for no reason, other than men being sexists and misogynists and hating women very much, because this is what white men do.
It's clearly feminist. What happens is that, for a believer, that's normal. For a Christian that goes to church every Sunday, Christian movies look like completely normal movies.
"Steve Rogers was said that he was not good enough because he clearly was not good enough."
More specifically, the reason Steve Rogers was told he wasn't good enough wasn't because he's a man.
No. Steve Rogers was told that he wasn't good enough because he was too weak (physically) to be a soldier.
On the contrary, the feminist trope is about portraying evil and sexists (white) men telling women they're not good enough because they're women and they hate women very much, and portraying this as a it was some common attitude in western societies.
Being feminist can be a double edged sword. It can easily blur into man-hater. 'other than men being sexist and misogynists and hating women very much, because this is what white men do'. See how easy it turns...
At what point was Captain Marvel, or Carol Danvers, held down by men for no reason? We saw that she was tough, and not a quitter, and when she fell she got up. We saw that she was among the best jet pilots in the Air Force. We never saw anyone, male or female, holding her back or preventing her from advancing, due to her gender, either on Earth or in the Kree world.
As for your final line-- that's nonsensical. It's obviously not remotely feminist. To someone radically on either side of the argument, i.e. the tiny fringe element to which you belong, facts will be ignored in order to fit the narrative you want to see. To the rest of us, reality is reality. Case in point: me. I'm extremely opposed to feminism, and I think the so-called SJW's are lunatics. By your reasoning, I should be foaming at the mouth with rage at the feminist aspects of the film. Yet, I see none. I see a movie no different from, say, Thor or Iron Man, other than the protagonist is female.
It's feminist in the sense that Carol Danvers and Maria Rambeau both got on with it and didn't let jibs from others stop them. That and when Yon Rogg tried to goad Danvers into a physical fight at the end she didn't fall for it because she didn't need her mentor's approval.
That is the only thing that can remotely be claimed as feminist and it works in terms in plot. But those who want to see some sort of agenda just have major issues.
Headstrong women are the 'it' thing in Hollywood these days . Watching the Oscars with the #metoo movement and the #oscarssowhite are having its effect. I agree that this movie has a pro-women message. Labeling it as 'Feminist' might be going too far.
That being said, there are millions of women in the world who have been raped and/or battered by uncaring men. If this movie can help these women become stronger and overcome....Viewers should have no problem with that and not be hyper-critical.
By the way, the Disney had to pay Jamie Lee Curtis to use her image. I imagine that Arnold would have wanted a least 1 million minimum.
The problem is that is the wrong message. If you wanna avoid getting raped (or better said: decrease the chances of it), the way to do it is become sharper, smarter and more streetwise. Becoming powerful is mostly useless, since no matter how powerful you feel, a guy with a blade will overpower you.
shareOr you just avoid Harvey Weinstein.
shareThat's included in 'being more smart'
shareIt was not 'becoming more poweful'... the theme given to women was resiliency, I thought that was clear. Many women who have been through trauma blame themselves.
The danger the movie edges on is that all (white)men are bad and/or not to be trusted. All white men depicted in this movie at some point were untrustworthy. Mr. Colson was cloned and almost killed Fury. Fury's boss was cloned and tried to do the same. *Spoiler Jude Law's character was ultimately deemed untrustworthy. Ms. Marvel also had trust issues with her father.
Even the white security guard that the movie kind of goofed on by playing 'What a Man' ( one of only three overweight/unkempt men in the movie) gave her location away to authorities.
Actually, that's a very common pattern: you want to promote resiliency in a group, you demonize an external group. White males are playing that role as the group to demonize and dehumanize when it comes to women as a group or to non-white ethnical groups (mainly, black).
And that's nothing new: propaganda war movies used the same trick to improve the moral of the troops. Actually, first Captain America movie made represented that, when Steve Rogers is used in spectacles.
Beautiful contradiction, when you think about it: Captain Marvel is playing in the real world that role that Captain America played in fiction.
That's what I suspected, although I read some reviews suggesting that there is an implicit feminist, or at least empowerment, message, which is no bad thing whatsoever. In fact, one of the reasons why these films resonate as they do is because they try to say something beyond simply being a mere action-orientated blockbuster.
Still, I get the impression that most of the MRA/incel outcry against this film was more to do with Brie Larson's interviews and the HERo marketing, than anything more substantive. I'm certainly not going to defend the stupidity and mendacity of these trolls, but as I say I do think they are motivated by the stuff surrounding the film as opposed to its content per se (which they couldn't possibly know about without seeing the film for themselves).
What about the “I’m tired of people telling me what I can and cannot do”?
Or the black female pilot friend?
Or the getting picked on flashbacks?
Or Nick Fury being reduced to a doormat?
You forgot about that. Hehe
“I’m tired of people telling me what I can and cannot do”?
That's like ...the THEME of Captain America The First Avenger until he gets his actual uniform and also for Spider-Man: Homecoming
Or the black female pilot friend?
A nod to the second Captain Marvel? FOR SHAME!!!
Or the getting picked on flashbacks?
Again, Captain America TFA.
Or Nick Fury being reduced to a doormat?
Winter Soldier, Age of Ultron.....
Yeah right, Nick Fury was a badass in Winter Soldier. He was basically reduced to a lame comedic “Driving Miss Daisy” role in Captain Marvel.
shareYeah, he laid in that hospital bed like a gangsta!
shareGetting ambushed like he did and not only coming out alive but then faking his own death is pretty badass. Flash forward to Captain Marvel where he is a damsel in distress lol.
Winter Soldier is easily the best Marvel movie we’ve gotten....Captain Marvel isn’t the worst but it’s beyond mediocre, perhaps equal to the first Antman.
I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. Fury took out a caravan of Hydra agents after they ambushed him and then escaped Winter Soldier. I haven't seen CM yet so I'm not saying anything about this movie at this time, but Fury was a badass in Winter Soldier.
shareYeah... representation, being discriminated against for being supposedly being inferior (it’s called reality), ultimately not taking shit from others and showing courage. Oh, and Fury a doorman? Heh... yea, because this was supposed to be the Fury that we know from the previous movies. He didn’t have his beginnings!
So, feminist and SJW? THAT’S GODDAMN RIGHT! It’s not the agenda the incels approve of, and that is nothing but good. Social justice/social commentary has always been a part of Marvel and superheroes, but I know that’s not what the alt Reich wants to hear. Well, tough shit you manbabies! Hehe.
At least you admit it's an agenda.
It's also not just incels that are against it.
Remember that.
Tired of being told what to do/ getting picked on in flashbacks-- isn't that in many superhero stories? Spider-Man, Captain America, even the Hulk as Bruce Banner all started as weak people being told what to do and were picked on by bullies. It's a common superhero trope.
What is inherently anything about her best friend being black or female? She's female, so it stands to reason her best friend would be, too. Unless you consider casting a black actor as somehow subversive or only done to promote social justice?
Nick Fury was pretty funny and badass in the movie, and this was a story of him first becoming aware of super-beings and alien races. Both he and Coulson were fresh and naive, and that was the point. Neither was a doormat. You saw them before they became hardened cynics.
Yeah but Peter Parker was picked on for being a nerd. Not because of his gender nor was he a victim of the Patriarchy.
Her friend was nothing more than inclusive nonsense, it would be like casting two straight white dudes as Professional Ballarina’s.
The Nick Fury I know doesn’t get distracted by a cutie patootie cat nor would he let a feminist woman walk all over him. When Brie Larson continually corrects him it’s just unnecessary.
Even if you wanted to argue there's nothing feminist about the film itself, brie Larsson's comments about white men made it that way. Her comments spoke to what she saw in the film, and I dont blame a single person for abandoning it because of that reason alone.
shareI'll wait for it to come out on some streaming service like all the other middling marvel movies.
shareYeah I didn’t get that feminism vibe either. Sure there were a few girl power moments but that expected from female superhero movie. Of course when Carol was acting like she was she was boss with Fury it’s obvious since she was more superior than him having coming from another planet with super powers.
share"It's totally not feminist except for those times when it is."
shareEmpowering little girls is not even a real fear worth fearing, or a worthy reason for detractors to detract anything. Ridiculous.
shareThat's good. I don't mind those things, as long as it's not done in a preachy way. They should focus on telling story and character and the messages grow out of that.
Blackkklansman was an entertaining movie for instance, and also had something to say.