im a white male. this movie was not made for me
and therefore i wont watch it.
thats exectly what brie larson thinks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZA_DNrV6izw
She wasn't talking about Captain Marvel at all. Not even close.
Nice try though... The best part is you prompted me to watch her great speech, and that probably defeats your entire intent here.
The OP is clearly an idiot, so I'm not going to engage with him, but do you think Brie Larson was smart or correct to make that statement about A Wrinkle in Time?
shareIt was a great statement. She's discussing representation of interpersonal cultural similarities and contrasting target demographics against
The discussion of color and gender was in the same league as her mention of age, which is why it was great.
If a 15 year old wants to go watch a movie geared for a high school crowd, he/she will likely be more interested in reading/hearing reviews from other teens. That likely ends up being word-of-mouth between peers, since I don't imagine there are many professional teen movie reviewers.... AND YET, teens are one of the biggest movie demographics:
https://womenandhollywood.com/mpaa-report-2016-52-of-movie-audiences-are-women-other-takeaways-12320da989b4/
18–24 year olds were the highest per capita audience. (12–17 year olds were the highest per capita audience in 2015.)
FYI, 24 is a cutoff and 18-24 is its own age group because 18-24 is adult adolescence. We don't fully finish growing and mentally developing until 24.
That same logic of age differences and opinions and audience demographics logically extends out to cultural differences and gender differences. This part is just about preferences in what people like to read. Similarly, black authors of fiction/nonfiction may write for a mostly black audience, female authors may write for a mostly female audience, etc. Male authors may write for a mostly male audience (extreme example: The Game by Neil Strauss). And though they don't think of it consciously, white people may write for a mostly white audience.
As she started with, the biggest impact comes down to the fact that critics have an effect on the income a movie gets. This is magnified tremendously for indie films. That impact on income should probably more accurately reflect the real-world audience instead of being so overwhelmingly white and male.
It would come down to the hiring practices of places that hire critics... Which just sounds funny on its surface LOL
I'm a white male. Do you consider my opinions worthless?
And I don't read misogynist crap like The Game. I engage in films and shows and books made by women and POC. I'd like to be a writer. If I were finally to motivate myself to write a book, I'd like to write something that appeals to as wide a demographic as possible. I wouldn't be interested in simply speaking to other white men.
I think it's a sad indictment of our time that we're not seeking bonds between identity groups, but instead we're taking pride in creating even bigger rifts.
If we carry on this way, we'll continue with a zero sum game political culture in which parties represent identity groups, and only the biggest and most widespread identity group (at present, that remains white people in the US) will win elections, especially under the EC system.
Division is NOT a virtue. Diplomacy and unity are.
I'm a white male. Do you consider my opinions worthless?
WTF? Dude you basically just repeated what the idiot topic poster said in his topic title... Might want to compare the two and notice it yourself!
This is not about the "worth" of your opinion, in that it's not about worth in the first place, and you're not a movie critic (as far as I know).
This is only regarding the likely personal preferences of people who read reviews, as well as the demographic disparity between the audience a movie is marketed toward, and the demographics of the critics themselves.
It's all just marketing and statistics and preferences.
There was NEVER anything said about WORTH. Not once, not in her speech, and not in my post. There was also no dismissal of opinions that would be so all-encompassing as to dismiss YOUR personal opinion. Those are judgments YOU created and YOU added.
Just wanted to make that super-clear.
=) share
I believe Larson said that she didn't care what a white man had to say about A Wrinkle in Time because 'it wasn't made for them'.
Doesn't that imply that she is attaching less value to their opinion?
And it's abundantly clear that I've not repeated the same thing the OP said.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that fixation on our differences is not healthy. We should be transcending race and colour instead of using it to divide us as white supremacists do. Why anyone who considers themselves a liberal progressive would want to adapt the same divisive tactics and aims of the far-right is baffling to me.
I believe Larson said that she didn't care what a white man had to say about A Wrinkle in Time because 'it wasn't made for them'.I've called you on this twice and you STILL continue to do this regardless of me or anyone else noting it to you. Provide us all a link where Brie said she didn't care.
She didn't ****care****.
She said she didn't NEED. Changing that one word changes the context for you and everyone else.
You couch this in a cloak of "I believe" when in essence all you need to do is use her actually cloak rather than speculate. I told you once before that this whole Outrage Industry against Brie Larson is manufactured and borderline malicious. Brie Larson is innocent of saying racist, sexist, prejudice statements. You on the other hand dabble and traffic in Racist and Sexist tropes, statements and behaviors almost regularly under the guise of being Pro POC.
Stop changing her quote. Stop being judgmental by using out of context quotes. It is truly beneath you. If you try hard enough you can be better than that. In the USA legal Court system you're asked to, "Tell the Truth, the Whole truth, and Nothing BUT the truth". That works well even in the court of public opinion. share
Okay, 'didn't need'. I sincerely apologise for my error. It was not intentional or mendacious.
However, it still doesn't substantively change what I've been saying.
In fact, I think you and Larson are being the mendacious ones by relying on the word 'need'.
Of course no-one 'needs' to read a review by a white man. But then again, no-one particularly needs to read any review, whether the concerned critic is black, white, male, female. Film criticism is hardly an essential industry.
And who is saying that Larson 'needs' to read a review by a white man anyway? Has anyone demanded that she does?
It's a strawman argument, and that's why I subconsciously substituted the word 'need' for 'care', because taken at face-value saying "I don't need to know what a white man thinks of A Wrinkle in Time" is meaningless.
Besides, the important part of Larson's quote, and the part I did get 100% accurate, is where she said "it wasn't made for them".
As a side point, your attacks on me are mendacious. I have never accused Larson of 'racism, sexism or prejudicial statements'. Please point out to me where I have used those terms in relation to Larson.
And what are these 'racist and sexist' tropes you're referring to? Once again, where is your evidence for such serious charges?
As for being 'pro POC', I find that to be a very patronising term. I am pro-people. I don't make a distinction between POC and white people. I want the best for everyone.
As a final point, this is an online forum. Not a USA legal court. If you want to apply those standards here, then be my guest. I may join you in applying them, just as long as you apply them consistently to others, yourself included. If you want to apply US judicial standards to these boards, let's first agree not to believe any charge or allegation made against any individual here without a burden of proof that at least reaches the civil standard (on the balance of evidence) if not beyond all reasonable doubt.
As an aside, why are you targeting me, and not the OP?
His rhetoric is genuinely angry and 'woe is me' on behalf of white men.
My argument is a lot more nuanced, and I'm not feeling bad for white men. All I've said is that Brie Larson's statement was misguided and unhelpful, even if the sentiments behind it (i.e. arguing for more diversity in film criticism) were praiseworthy.
I'm not sure why you, or anyone else, would take such offence at my stance.
And your bones don’t fully mature until your 30’s.
shareregardless of you calling me an idiot. just so youl know. the majority agrees with me on that subject. the majority of marvel fans are white males. get it into your skull
share[deleted]
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Your comments are divisive and unhelpful.
I don't entirely agree with Frogarama either, but you're not making an argument in good faith. You're being unreasonable.
because i said the truth? that brie larson hate white males? she does. and im sick of white guilt everywhere i go. sick of it. white guilt here white guilt there.
shareP.S., this didn't fit: When it comes to teens though, society is accepting of age discrimination/bias, and it's understandable.
Also, from the link I gave: "Women are 52% of the moviegoers"
In terms of gender, IDEALLY (in a perfect world), the critics would be 52% female.
A publication that puts out reviews would see that 52% audience and, if they were smart, would aim for a 52% female ratio for the critics they publish.
It's all marketing demographics and statistics. Brie is speaking my language here =)
Why would they need or have to be 52% female. Are you now saying that every job on the planet has to match the gender, colour, race statistics. Why can't people just be allowed to do there job regardless or this bullshit gender, colour war. You ever wonder why there are not 52% female critics, maybe they don't want to do it ever think of that. I cannot stand affirmative action, giving people a helping hand based on there race, colour or gender is just pathetic, people should be allowed to do whatever job they wish without persecution.
And yes Brie Larson is a racist, sexist, horrible person who has never experrienced hardship in her life. She is part of the most privilaged class ever in the history of this planet. She keeps stating its hard to be a female actrees, yeh they all seem to be struggling to earn there millions, it's absolute rubbish.
Equal opportunity, not equal outcome
Why would they need or have to be 52% female. Are you now saying that every job on the planet has to match the gender, colour, race statistics. Why can't people just be allowed to do there job regardless or this bullshit gender, colour war.
No mentions of needs or requirements.
I said: "A publication that puts out reviews would see that 52% audience and, if they were smart, would aim for a 52% female ratio"
"If they were smart" refers to marketing and demographics, not gender politics.
She keeps stating its hard to be a female actrees, yeh they all seem to be struggling to earn there millions, it's absolute rubbish.
Most actors and actresses are not millionaires. Most are struggling.
As you spew your vile classist trash, you're ignoring smaller actors/actresses as well as the entire indie film community.
No wonder you're using a new account. share
What is so 'vile' and 'classist' about pointing out that many actors working in Hollywood tend to be very wealthy and privileged?
These people aren't saving lives, they're not educating our young, they're not rescuing people from burning buildings, they're not discovering cures for major diseases, they're not working in dangerous and cramped coal mines, they're not even slaving in dull mundane offices for basic salary.
They're doing one of the most fun and pleasurable jobs in the world, often for very good money (actors complain about the money, but I know some very well-off actors who don't work a lot and aren't major stars but are able to live a very comfortable upper-middle-class existence, in houses that are unaffordable to most of us, based on the decent money they do earn).
And let's focus specifically on Brie Larson. Do you honestly think she's struggling?
Thank You for pointing out what i thought was blatently obvious.
shareAgain why would they need to. Oceans 8 for example, is a man's opinion on that film not as good as a womans, why, its a movie, its entertainment. The critics sex, colour or race should play no part on his outcome of writing positive or negative reviews of a movie. That's their sole job to be without bias.
We were obviously talking about hollywood A'listers, when do you here front page news of some random struggling actor, the answer is probably never, so don't try.
What did i write that was vile, classiest trash. Brie Larson is a white woman, which currently is the most privilaged and protected gender ever. You cannot criticize them without being called sexist or misogynistic. But they can call us white men anything they want without ever having to worry about the consequences. The way you responded is case in point.
What has the age of my account got to do with my opinion, does having an acccount longer hold more water or something, i created it to give my opinion just like you, so please get off your high horse.
In regards to the comments made by Brie Larson if they were made by a white man there would absolute hell on, he would have been lambasted and railroaded out of town, literally having his life destroyed, which brings us nicely back to her being part of the most privilaged class in existence.
Here endeth the lesson
White people, men and women, are currently the most privileged and protected group ever. Neither white men nor white women should be able to pretend that this privilege does not apply to them.
Here's an interesting article about white women exploiting their privilege to the detriment of POC: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/feb/27/white-privilege-is-used-by-women-against-black-men-as-a-tool-of-oppression
Suffice to say, Brie Larson belongs to the demographic being indicted here.
Considering that nearly every issue is usually lumbered onto the shoulders of white men, i wouldn't call that privilaged. Frankly i hate that term, you make of life what you put into it. If this movie tanks it will be sexist white men, if the critics were negative it would be because to many white men. I appreciate your opinion i just dont fully agree with it but i enjoy the discorse. But in regards to woman, they are definately the most protected, privilaged of them all and i'm married to one. They hold all the power and none of the responsibilty in many parts of life and work. They can slap me, i cannot retaliate. They can call me names i can't do the same as it's sexist. They can make false claims and no punishment is placeed on them but the man's life is destoryed even if innocent. The list goes on. I read the artcile is was intriguing and quite an incite into the other side so to speak, thank you for the link.
shareWhat a joke. Of course you can call women sexist names. I even see it on daytime tv. It’s considered sexist by some, but it’s still extremely common and regularly goes by without being called out. There’s even a whole genre of music that’s regularly filled with misogynistic language. Just become a rapper if you want to be sexist.
Of course language is so inherently sexist towards women, that a woman could probably not even match you on insults. Sexual insults are typically female orientated. Then insults like son of a bitch or bastard are actually insults to mothers. Hell, you could be openly sexist and become the next president!
The vast majority of rapists get away with their crimes. As of right now, 50% of the female population in South Africa will be raped in their lifetime. Does that sound like privilege?
Speaking of a slap, women are waaaay more likely to be raped and/or murdered by their partner. What privilege. They’ve even just decriminalised some forms of domestic violence against women in Russia. What privilege.
300,000 women still die in childbirth each year.
Women are more likely to be harassed at work and in their daily lives. Women are more likely to be ignored at work and passed over for promotions, due to preconceived notions.
Do you include women in places like South Africa, India, China, Honduras, Columbia etc in your claim of privilege? Are you including girls who are denied an education still? The millions of child brides out there?
In Japan, school girls have to ride in separate areas on public transport, due to the sheer amount of sexual assault that occurs. What privilege!
There are so many more hate sites aimed at women than men. I can’t think of any aimed at men. I can think of 8 aimed at women off the top of my head, including sites where known rapists and mass killers have frequented. You’re currently posting on a site full of misogynists.
What’s one of the biggest influences ever on the world? Religion. What are most religions? Misogynistic. No leading religion is telling us that women are to be in charge of men. That’s why religion has been used to hold women back for an age.
Women never have and never will be more privileged than men in society. To suggest so over things like a hypothetical slap is a fucking joke. You’re so used to being privileged, that any sign of equality seems like oppression to you. Look around. White men have mostly been the ones targeting female orientated movies. Acknowledging that is NOT sexist against men. With that line of thinking, of course you think you’re the victim here. I’m willing to bet that article you read was a typical mgtow article, full of half truths and straight up lies. “But... more women go to university!!!”... yeah, because men with a degree can get higher paying jobs than women without a degree. “But... more men commit suicide!”... yes and more women attempt suicide, but those guys never mention that half of the statistic.
Seriously, you have a wife and 3 kids and you spend your time whining on the message boards of movies with female leads and the actresses who star in them? Greta Thunberg too? Even the married ones are being misogynistic saddos online.
“ Here endeth the lesson”.
Lol you’re actually crazy if you believe that. Some white actors have said absolutely vile things and not suffered at all.
Michael Weatherly was recently caught on tape asking an actress to his “rape van”. She was fired for it and he wasn’t, because the network decided to try and frame the actress instead. Sure though... white men automatically have their lives destroyed that easily.
Lol so crazy.
Your example doesn’t even work btw. White male actors have absolutely nothing they can ask for equality on in Hollywood. What do they want? Even more male directors? More male writers? More male producers? They’re already in the lead.
I said: "A publication that puts out reviews would see that 52% audience and, if they were smart, would aim for a 52% female ratio"[/quote]
Jews are 2% of the population. If you want to cap their film criticism to 2%, you're calling for another holocaust.
[quote]As you spew your vile classist trash
He has no money lol. He probably also lives in a trailer, am I right?
You keep denying it, but the left instinctively hates poor people. You can't hide it. share
If a minority group became overrepresented in a particular field, would you also argue that something should be done to address that?
shareRemember it only works one way and that is at the expense of white men's jobs.
There are jobs and careers dominated by woman but there is no push to get more men to do them but probably every job in existence that is dominated by men, especially ones that hold power and wealth there is always some push, agenda, initiative under the banner of diversity, inclusion which as we all know is code for less white people to make sure that they get more woman, more minorities regardless of if they even want to do it in the first place. As an example where i live they are constantly pushing for more girls/woman to go into Stem fields which presently is dominated by men (why that should be a problem i don't know). Anyway there are no barriers to stop them, no invisible or glass ceilings to push thorugh, they just choose not to. My daughters engineering class has 33 students, 30 boys, 3 girls and 2 of the girls have dropped out, tells you everything you wanna know. I just wish these groups would stop pushing false narratives and let people get on with their lives the way they wish.
Sport in America (and please correct me if i am indeed wrong, i don't live in America), NBA, NFL is dominated by black players should there be a push for more white players. No of course not because it should be the best person for the job no matter what the outcome.
As previously stated, equal opportunity for everyone, of course there should be but there should never be equal outcome.
Sorry for taking it of topic, normal service will be resumed shortly.
3.....2.......1 Brie Larson
Everyone is fighting for the crumbs from an increasingly smaller share of the pie.
But the truth is that upper-class and wealthy white people, mostly men, it has to be said, will still continue to end up with the lion's share.
Black people, poor people of all genders, disabled people, white Latinx. These groups will still be forced to fight amongst one another in order to get anywhere.
That i totally agree with. This is why i hate affirmative action. No one gave me anything, i have worked hard all my life for what i have , which i will be honest isn't a lot but i have a wife, 3 kids, a house, i'm happy with my little slice . What i don't agree with is someone being given a helping hand over others just because of their skin colour or gender, it really doesn't help anyone. Look at the military, nothing against woman but if you start reducing entry requirements to accomadate them it just puts people at risk and this can be used across a lot of jobs in the modern age. There was a recruitment drive near where i live for fire fighters, the add even said they were interested in woman and POC and minorities and it was found out that these groups were allowed a free pass to the final interview but the whte men still had to go through all the normal tests, it's the very definition of descrimination that these groups seem to be constantly fighting against. Like i said it only works one way and that is against white men, hence why i don't totally agree with the privilaged white men comment, again just my opinion.
shareI do support some forms of Affirmative Action, but I have a problem with institutions dropping minimum standards for certain groups, if what you say is true, especially where it concerns jobs like fire fighters. But if those standards are to be dropped in order to promote more diversity, on the basis that it will increase women and POC joining, it should be dropped for white men too. You can't have a multi-tier recruitment system in which some individuals are more qualified than others.
But look, with all due respect, if you have a wife, three kids, and a house, and presumably a decent paying job, it doesn't sound like you're doing too badly. No offence, but it doesn't sound like you have much to complain about (which is not to say that you are). You sound like you're living the dream, to some extent. I don't have a wife, I'll probably never have kids (even though I'd like to), I can't afford a house, and although I have a good college degree and post-grad qualification, I struggle to find decent secure work, due to my illnesses.
I don't want anyone to help me because I am a white man, but I wish someone would help me despite of it.
I wish i was comfortable lol. I don't have have much left over at the end of the month and have plenty to complain about, i have just been in the game for a while and know how to play so to speak. But i was in the same boat when i was younger, i couldn't afford anything, i had to work 3 jobs to put myserf through university and i don't honestly see why your sex or colour should make it easier for you. I was lucky i got my house when houses were cheap i couldn't afford one in todays market. I see in your example with illness then yes there should definately be something to help you get back on your feet but not to the detriment of someone else, thats my real arguement and what i whole heartedly disagree with.
The example i gave about the fire department was exactly what happened, someone blew the whistle on it, was in the local papers, they were absolutley hammered for it and rightly so, it's disgusting and just puts peoples lives at risk. But this type of affirmative action is happening across all walks of life.
On a positive note i do hope you get well soon
Thank you. But my illness can only be controlled, mostly via medication. Not cured.
As for the fire service, well at least it sounds as if the practice you're referring to was outlawed. Clearly it didn't have the support of the justice department or the community at large.
Did anyone try to defend the practice after it had been exposed?
Oh definately ill see if i can find the article. These types will always defend diversity when its against white men.
shareIt's all marketing demographics and statistics. Brie is speaking my language here =)
No she isn't. There's a perfect counter example. The movie The Red Pill is notorious for having a giant gap between audience score and critic score. The movie was made for white males and the critics are all white males so why is there a disconnect between critics and audiences? Criticis are clearly biased, just not in the way you think. They would give A Wrinkle In Time every benefit of the doubt. But it just flat out sucked.
White males are not out to get you. share