"So, we are told that the world achieves 'utopia', but what does that mean?"
-'Utopia' really just means 'much better place' (perhaps 'objectively' much better). A 'no place' that doesn't currently exist but just might in the imagination or the future.
"Sure, the big ones are easy to understand, no famine, no disease, no crime, but then what?"
-It means that almost any hardship one may endure, is one optionally chosen.
"We are told jobs aren't needed. Really? I saw waiters and waitresses serving food to people at the party, were they volunteers?"
-Nearly. There seemed to be a class structure but it was much, much less important than ever. We can think there's automated serving of any need worldwide, but at this elite event, there would be some distinction between elite and worker still. They may not be paid formally, but they may receive 'payment' by being part of this event when they otherwise would not, and knowledge of contributing to such an Overlord sanctioned activity. Basically I expect the service industry to be almost nothing except what some people really really want to do in life.
"We are told there is no hunger, well who grows the food, who ships it, etc?"
-Those who want to. Between technological improvements, and resource allocation (at least half our resource problem is this, by the way), we need a relatively minuscule number of people involved with this. Its already like 1% of the first world, and the Overlords would bring it much lower. And if there was any issue, the Overlords would intervene and bring the tech to make sure that people are fed.
"Who does all the menial tasks like collect garbage?"
-This would likely be largely automated.
"We are also told scientific curiosity is killed. Why? Just because all the current questions are answered there are always new ones."
-Its stupidly spoken in this show, but the point is more that ORGANIZED science has died. That people aren't collecting in enough numbers, enough teams, enough cultural/etc support to actually do anything about it. Any questions increasingly filter to: "What we know was 'wrong', and what is 'right' is the Overlords, and the Overlords won't answer us, but we're dependent on them to continue to live at this standard." AKA we are 'children' and the Overlord is the 'parent'. We may question them but we will get minimal answers. Its only when 'growing up' do we ask more and get more answers, but that's where the creepy children and Overmind come in.
"The mayor of New Athens says creativity died. Again, why? If people are no longer burdened with labor and now have lots of free time why not use that time to create? What do people do all day in utopia?"
-People will be creating things but it'll be unimaginative and always with the knowledge that the Overlord's unknowable level of things is automatically supreme. On one hand, we could use our advancements to go and explore and create, but on the other, the Overlords simply won't allow this, under the plan to force us under their perception of evolution anyway. So we're basically not even in the 'playpen' to discover things, but instead caged into the cradle and told to settle and sleep. And that's what most do. Though we're given the example of the one father who is clearly not content and would prefer to move to New Athens, I don't think we should underestimate that there would be many, perhaps the majority, that would settle for mediocrity and lazing away, at least in the shorter term of a utopia.
Mind you, this is from a 1950s mindset in a lot of ways. But many people also think this very thing. For example, in arguments against a basic citizen income (or whatever term you want), there will be millions of people claiming that if you get all the money you need to survive and start to thrive, most will just settle for surviving and will not do the things that make civilization itself thrive. They could be wrong, but that's what they claim.
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Dejay
8 years ago
Its stupidly spoken in this show, but the point is more that ORGANIZED science has died. That people aren't collecting in enough numbers, enough teams, enough cultural/etc support to actually do anything about it.
Thanks that is actually a pretty great explanation. You need lots of speciality equipment for many areas of research. If the overlords drop "magic" tech that just works and does and automate everything, humans would both be dependent on them for equipment to do research. And a little bit of desire to solve immediate advances lost.
What is interesting about the movie / book (haven't read it, just the comparisons here) is that it's pretty dogmatic (?) about human nature. It's plausible that science would slow or change or public interest would decrease. But stop? That is a serious lack of understanding of human nature. Humans are never exactly this or react always that way. People would say "sure you can do it better already but that won't stop me from learning anyway!".
BTW you make a similar statement in the end about basic income - some would just loaf around, some would read and become experts about things that don't seem profitable. Besides being an inevitability, we could just do scientific studies about behaviour on basic income or just add incentives to be productive without being profitable.
Stopping creativity is just ludicrous though and shows an even deeper lack of understanding by Clarke. Or maybe it's a deliberate mistake or metaphor? Good artists don't strive for "better than the rest" but to gain or reflect insight into the world. Why would the need to express yourself change?
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