MovieChat Forums > Malignant (2021) Discussion > EDIT-my theory has been confirmed----A f...

EDIT-my theory has been confirmed----A few parts are just flat out dishonest

posted 3 years ago by billbrown7071 (3194)
17 replies | jump to latest

Mild spoilers**************************************

So I just finished the movie and I liked it.

But I'm really thinking about it and a few parts really Piss me off.

First the entire movie with clearly shot in a way to intentionally And painfully try to hide the twist.

I'm OK with most of what they did except there are these parts I just can't seem to make any sense of based on what the twist turned out to be and as far as I can tell "these parts" seems to be just flat out dishonest lies to intentionally mislead the audience

problem #1 the part where it shows "Gabriel" sitting on the couch a second before her boyfriend turns on the lights and Gabriel is gone and then it specifically shows the couch with an imprint of someone invisible sitting on the couch and then the the imprint goes away as if the invisible person is standing up.

I literally don't see anyway how this makes sense with what the twist turned out to be. This scene was clearly added to mislead the audience to make you think there was something supernatural going on. This scene clearly suggests Gabriel is in fact some sort of entity.

problem #2- Madison / Emily being chased by a clear vision of some sort of black ghost immediately after finding her dead boyfriend, this scene is not as impossible to explain as the first scene I mentioned but still in my opinion this was a very dishonest scene that doesn't makes sense with what the twist ended up being

problem #3- the twist doesn't remotely explain how Madison had superhuman strength, superhuman agility, and the fighting ability of a ninja / lifelong martial artist., the acts and maneuvers "Gabriel" does during the chase sequence with the cop is simply not humanly possible, many of the maneuvers actually defies the laws of physics... The twist simply does not explain how any of this is possible , the answer needed to be supernatural.

problem #4- in order for this twist to work and make sense you would have to assume that Madison / Emily spent her entire life either not noticing that her entire back and back of her neck are covered with gigantic scars and horrific skin defects from where the surgeons did a extremely serious and complex surgery in the removal of an entire small human being off of her back... You have to assume she either never at any point during her entire life looked at her back in the mirror to noticed the deformity from her surgery or worse you have to assume that she did notice her horribly disfigured back and neck and just never cared to go check and see why she has such horrific scarring and skin deformity on her back and neck , either way for me this almost ruins the twist because it makes the twist logically impossible

It just seems to me like James Wan had a very good idea for an incredible twist ending and then had to painfully create the entire movie around it and it required him to flat out be dishonest in certain parts

^^^^^

EDIT-----

I just read an article confirming my theory and thoughts above

I said "It just seems to me like James Wan had a very good idea for an incredible twist ending and then had to painfully create the entire movie around it and it required him to flat out be dishonest in certain parts"

that has now been confirmed----https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/malignant-director-james-wan-reveals-133053974.html

"My wife, Ingrid, she does a lot of research into medical anomalies," says Wan, recalling how he was introduced to the concept of teratomas. "She goes, 'There are people that are afflicted by this thing, that were born like this.' I just thought, wow. So obviously my horror movie-f---ed mind went immediately to the most messed-up story I could come up with. Her and I, we just started spitballing ideas and [it] eventually snowballed into a concept. The whole time I was thinking, how do I take this seed of an idea and actually turn it into a film and what I can do with it that can possibly allow me to have fun with all kinds of practical effects that I haven't played with in a while? You know, the blood and guts and all the cool animatronic stuff. It stemmed from all kinds of aspirations, but that really was the start of that idea."

[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

everything you say is 100% correct.

as i said in the other thread on this board, this film will not hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

i don't care!

i loved it. it is stupid and silly and full of contradictions and i loved the last half hour so much i'm not going to be able to talk about anything except how awesome i thought it was for a long long long long time.

[–] davodikum (6198) 3 years ago

I like to think the movie can get away with all of its inconsistencies by assuming all the scenes that don't quite mesh with what reality would be, were Gabriel showing Emily a different version of events in her mind to trick her.

[–] gsmith9072 (454) 3 years ago

Agreed!

[–] FilmBuff (7264) 3 years ago

Yes and no. Gabriel is clearly a supernatural being-- maybe even a demon?-- who has demonstrable supernatural powers. Before the credits even role we're told he can absorb electricity and use it to increase his strength to superhuman levels. He can speak through radios using some kind of supernatural power. If you're willing to suspend your disbelief that such a creature can exist, I think it's fair to consider that he could do things beyond what was explicitly stated. We saw how fast he could run, how strong he was, how high he could jump, etc., and that he could snap his arms and legs into reverse at the joints, and though it was never outright stated, one can take the cushion scene to mean he could become invisible. Or, perhaps he was so quick as to be able to leap up and cling to the ceiling in the time it took the boyfriend to turn to the light switch and back?

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

problem #1 the part where it shows "Gabriel" sitting on the couch a second before her boyfriend turns on the lights

That was Madison.

Madison / Emily being chased by a clear vision of some sort of black ghost immediately after finding her dead boyfriend

That was a hallucination.

he twist doesn't remotely explain how Madison had superhuman strength, superhuman agility, and the fighting ability of a ninja / lifelong martial artist.

You find it unbelievable that Gabriel's physical abilities defies the laws of physics while simultaneously reflecting the ability of a ninja...but you find it very acceptable that the twist explains Gabriel's ability to control electricity, and speak via electricity?

You have to assume she either never at any point during her entire life looked at her back in the mirror to noticed the deformity from her surgery or worse you have to assume that she did notice her horribly disfigured back and neck

[–] billbrown7071 (3194) 3 years ago

The doctor specialized in cosmetic surgery. The only place that couldn't be dealt with completely was the back of her head, which is covered by hair.

The movie actually has a few plot holes, which I find acceptable for this type of movie. And you managed to point out "problems" that aren't actually problems.

^^^

if you watch the beginning of the movie during the credits, the clips they are showing it's actually short clips of the surgery itself being performed on Madison And then if we watch the end of the movie when the twist is revealed, it actually shows the doctor saying "sow her up", Which then shows the actual surgery and damage done by the surgeons.. They literally had to cut her entire back open and open her like she had flaps... There's no way to hide that kind of scarring she would literally have a scar coming from her head down 3/4 of her back, there would then also be 2 giant circular scars(where they would have to add skin grafts) where they removed the arms, there would also be a giant straight scar going basically shoulder to shoulder on her back

That was Madison.

^^

I agree it was Madison it had to be.

But James Wan decided to shoot the scene in a completely dishonest way, unless Madison can turn invisible and unless she can move at the speed of light.. That scene simply doesn't make any sense

we see a figure sitting in the middle of a room on a couch, the light goes out and in less than a second the light is turned back on in the figure is gone... The speed at which Madison would have to move to be Completely gone in less than a second just seems impossible

but next we see that Madison isn't just gone instead she seems to be invisible as we see there is something sitting on the couch and Has a perfect imprint of a human being but then goes away and looks like someone is standing up from the couch

So while I agree it has to be Madison, James Wan decided to direct this scene in a very very dishonest way to make audiences believe something supernatural was going on...

When in fact the reality was, it was Madison and apparently she has the ability to turn invisible and can move at the speed of light

this scene does not make sense... period... It was intentionally added in a dishonest way

That was a hallucination.

^^^
yes the more I thought about it, it has to be some sort of hallucination

or more likely that Gabriel is giving Madison this vision... The movie specifically says Gabriel can give Madison visions that make her think she's living a normal day while he's killing

so I was thinking maybe Gabriel gave Madison this vision so Madison would think there was some sort of intruder that was ultimately responsible for the death of her husband and most importantly the death of her baby, since Gabriel was in fact feeding off the baby and was the ultimate reason for the baby's death... Maybe Gabriel specifically gave her a vision of being chased by an intruder and being knocked down by the intruder so Madison would believe that is why she lost the baby.

Still incredibly dishonest by James Wan, literally one of the most dishonest things I've ever seen in any movie ever but at least maybe there is an explanation for it

You find it unbelievable that Gabriel's physical abilities defies the laws of physics while simultaneously reflecting the ability of a ninja...but you find it very acceptable that the twist explains Gabriel's ability to control electricity, and speak via electricity?

^^

no not at all, did you not read the part where I said it doesn't make sense to me

[–] billbrown7071 (3194) 3 years ago

I was just noting that The movie at least tried to explain what was going on with Gabriel and electricity...

You mistake my noting of an explanation for me agreeing with it, instead I only noted it( not because I agreed with it) but because I was shocked there was any explanation at all here considering literally everything else in the movie has no explanation ....but at least here with the electricity there seemed to be some attempt to explain its origin

At the first of the movie they specifically say we just tried to give him electric shock therapy and the machine started exploding and he started getting stronger, at the end of the film during a flashback they actually show it...

So I was just noting at least James Wan attempted to show the cause of the electricity and Gabriel, he didn't explain it but at least he showed the origin of it

As for the strength, speed and fighting ability there is literally nothing, absolutely no explanation for how a human can do these things

especially when the twist ended up revealing nothing supernatural was going on...

I really liked the movie, I will recommend it to anyone and even defend it... But if you can't at least admit there was some extremely dishonest things going on in this movie, I think you're way too biased and like the film too much

James Wan clearly had to go to extremes here to build a film around an idea for A twist ending... It's clear in order for his twist ending to work, he had to lie and go to absolute extreme dishonesty to mislead the audience...

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

You mistake my noting of an explanation for me agreeing with it, instead I only noted it( not because I agreed with it) but because I was shocked there was any explanation at all here considering literally everything else in the movie has no explanation ....but at least here with the electricity there seemed to be some attempt to explain its origin

Because that's the implication. Why would you complain about superhuman strength when the electric powers are the ones that are actually unrealistic? You'd think you'd mention the electricity because there is nothing reasonable about them.

At the first of the movie they specifically say we just tried to give him electric shock therapy and the machine started exploding and he started getting stronger

Dear lord. You actually are accusing the film of being dishonest...but in regards to the electric powers, you think it's totally reasonable that shock therapy gave Gabriel the ability to speak and manipulate electricity remotely.

That is absurd. Doesn't make any sense at all. Its no origin.

But if you can't at least admit there was some extremely dishonest things going on in this movie, I think you're way too biased and like the film too much

I mean, I think you're way too dry about this, and you got insulted because a movie tricked you. I've never seen someone use the word dishonest to the degree that you're using to describe any film.

I acknowledged that there ARE plot holes in this movie. But it looks like you're now being dishonest when I'm trying to respond to you in a rational manner. Ignoring me, accusing me of bias, and saying that I like the film too much to see your "flaws" (instead of just considering that maybe I just don't agree with the particular flaws that you selected, which is why I like the movie more than you). Well, guess I'm done here. For a moment, I thought you could actually be reasonable in discussing the film.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

here's no way to hide that kind of scarring she would literally have a scar coming from her head down 3/4 of her back, there would then also be 2 giant circular scars(where they would have to add skin grafts) where they removed the arms, there would also be a giant straight scar going basically shoulder to shoulder on her back

I didn't mean to suggest that it was realistic. I meant the fact that they mention that the doctor was a specialist suggests that we are supposed to evoke a suspension of disbelief in that particular regard. Movies are hardly true to reality after all.

So while I agree it has to be Madison, James Wan decided to direct this scene in a very very dishonest way to make audiences believe something supernatural was going on...

Yes...James Wan did this intentional. It's misdirection. It's absolutely meant to make audiences believe something supernatural was going on. It doesn't make it dishonest. That scene made sense.

or more likely that Gabriel is giving Madison this vision... The movie specifically says Gabriel can give Madison visions that make her think she's living a normal day while he's killing

Yeah! that's what I meant when I said hallucination. I meant the visions. It's part of the twist that gabriel can trick her sensory functions. And again, I don't think this is dishonest. Do you seriously blame every movie that tries to trick the audience as being dishonest?

no not at all, did you not read the part where I said it doesn't make sense to me

Nowhere in your original post do you talk about his ability to manipulate electricity. You only talk about the superhuman strength and agility.

[–] imatosser182 (340) 3 years ago

I agree with most of this.

After Gabriel left the holding cell he should have headed straight for the hospital. The police battle scene was visually impressive but absolutely ridiculous.

[–] warrior-poet (1364) 3 years ago

1. While the cushion rising is merely it slowly reforming it's shape (i.e. that part is fully explainable--I personally did not get the impression while watching it of an invisible entity standing up, but merely an old cushion returning to its shape), there's a legit complaint with this. The way it was shot was misleading. That could easily have been avoided if when the lights went out it would have been pitch black, or if the camera had panned away and then back to reveal the figure being gone. I agree this could have been handled more honestly.

However...

2. It states right in the film that Gabriel could control what Madison sees, so I don't count item 2 as dishonest. Gabriel had a vested interest and valid motivation in making Madison believe he's a separate entity instead of being the other side of the coin.

3. The character(s) clearly exhibited a variety of supernatural abilities throughout the entire film, including electrokinesis (lights blowing, turning off and on, talking through radios, etc.), super-fast healing (e.g. her skull splits open and bones break to transform, then completely heal once she reverts to herself), and super-strength, speed and agility, perhaps hyper-awareness. These powers preclude the need to have unarmed combat knowledge, or training. She/he is simply physically superior to humans due to supernatural abilities. You're right that the movie doesn't explicitly define or explain this, but it was quite clear to me that's what was going on.

It could almost be seen as a super-antihero origin story with more story to flesh out in the future.

Side note: as an external context, the Malignant Man graphic novel Wan co-wrote back in 2011 shares a lot of the DNA with this film, and might help further inform the movie (although shouldn't be required). Even though they aren't related, they share the same concept, except in the comic it's a parasitic alien instead of a Firestarter/Carrie-like supernatural conjoined twin situation.

4. Again, clearly there's super-healing involved, similar to how a lycanthrope fully reverts to human form with all damage done to it healed up. Or, you know, like Wolverine. So perhaps she had no scars at all. I mean, her skull would burst open and then fully close.

There's plenty of in-universe evidence right in the movie itself that provides enough context for explanations. You just have to choose not to ignore it, to drink all of it in with an inquisitive mindset, and then exercise a bit of brain power to put the pieces together.
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

Bingo. On the money.

[–] warrior-poet (1364) 3 years ago

:)
_________________________________________
Never believe. Always question. Rebuke belief, a.k.a. bias, a.k.a. groupthink, a.k.a. ideology, the bane of skeptical, logical reason.

[–] billbrown7071 (3194) 3 years ago

EDIT-----

I just read an article confirming my theory and thoughts above

I said "It just seems to me like James Wan had a very good idea for an incredible twist ending and then had to painfully create the entire movie around it and it required him to flat out be dishonest in certain parts"

that has now been confirmed----https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/malignant-director-james-wan-reveals-133053974.html

"My wife, Ingrid, she does a lot of research into medical anomalies," says Wan, recalling how he was introduced to the concept of teratomas. "She goes, 'There are people that are afflicted by this thing, that were born like this.' I just thought, wow. So obviously my horror movie-f---ed mind went immediately to the most messed-up story I could come up with. Her and I, we just started spitballing ideas and [it] eventually snowballed into a concept. The whole time I was thinking, how do I take this seed of an idea and actually turn it into a film and what I can do with it that can possibly allow me to have fun with all kinds of practical effects that I haven't played with in a while? You know, the blood and guts and all the cool animatronic stuff. It stemmed from all kinds of aspirations, but that really was the start of that idea."

[–] acidraindrop (3055) 3 years ago

lol okay bud. The only thing that article confirms is something no one disagreed with. That's creating a movie around a single concept is not a novel thing to do.

Most of the points you brought up in your original post are still nonsense. He didn't confirm your complaints at all.

[–] billbrown7071 (3194) 3 years ago

Most of the points you brought up in your original post are still nonsense. He didn't confirm your complaints at all.

^^

listen bud, learn to read

I didn't say he confirmed any of my complaints.

Instead I specifically said he confirmed my theory, then quoted my exact statement that I thought James Wan had an idea for an incredible twist ending and then built an entire movie around it

And then I highlighted the exact quote in the article that confirmed that one singular statement that I said.

Literally at no point did I even remotely say the article confirmed my complaints, I could not have been more specific in quoting and highlighting but one statement that I said

this is clearly a case of you just wanting to bitch or you honestly didn't read my post.

Maybe you didn't read my post maybe you didn't see that I didn't in any way say that the article confirmed my complaints

But I think it's much more likely that you just simply wanted to bitch, I think it's much more likely my complaints angered you for some reason and you used this as an opportunity to tell me "how wrong i am" about my complaints again

PS

70% of the replies in this thread have been people agreeing with me

if you read the reviews for this film(which I have read a ton of them) the overwhelming majority of critics like the movie but agree it's filled with plot holes and many note the exact complaints that I have

if you go to YouTube and listen to the dozens and dozens of reviews for malignant, once again the overwhelming majority are positive reviews that like the movie but again like me they almost universally note the film is full of plot holes and sight the exact complaints I have

you do not have to agree with my complaints but it is literally not factual to say they are "nonsense" when the overwhelming majority of people who watched the movie all have the exact same complaints

please don't respond to me or this post anymore it is clear you are way WAY too biased and are defending this movie in an absurd almost obsessive way.

It's a great movie, I love it but there are problems here and for some odd reason you can't seem to admit that and worse for some reason it seems you are taking it personally when someone talks about the problems

so please don't respond anymore bud, at this point there is almost nothing else I would want less than to read another reply from you

Jesus you're gonna reply back aren't you.....

[–] mr159 (136) 3 years ago

I can live with all the inconsistent stuff happening to Madison. Like others have said, it's just Gabriel doing mind tricks and most of it is not real. The superhuman strength and fighting can also be explained away with the power of the psyche and the whole 'moms lifting cars off their kids' trope. The couch was probably said to be returning to its original shape moments after someone sat on it.

All this I'm sorta ok with. But it still counts against the movie that it relies on the patience and goodwill of the viewer to explain away all its plot holes.

What I cannot digest is all the electric stuff. Can Gabriel/Madison control electricity? Because he could have pulled an Electro and just electrocuted everyone to death in the police station and the hospital, instead of having a long drawn out fight. But the writers have used the electricity just to give exposition and move the story forward. Like calling the cop on his phone (who gave Gabriel his number?) or announcing itself on the radio.