Shafe's Wife - Aquarius (2015) Discussion

[–] Lucia 8 years ago

I thought the exact same thing at the time: he's just doing his job; she's already demonstrated that she's embarrassed by what color he is and what he does for a living in front of her Black Panther friends... she shouldn't have been butting her nose into the conversation in the first place, and then SHE starts screaming N-laced obscenities at HIM? Either that was very bad writing, or they're laying the groundwork to prove she's a raving, psychotic loon, because she sure acted like one. Definitely made no sense, that scene.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

How did she demonstrate she was embarrassed by what color he is? Bunchy said he knew she was married to a white man so clearly she told him.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

I wondered the same thing. I was actually surprised that they didn't seem to have a problem until Bunchy said Shafe was a cop. That's when the troops started to come at Shafe.

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[–] mystee_reyne 8 years ago

I thought her treatment of him was rough. From the beginning I was surprised at the fact that they were married to each other during such a racially charged time in the first place. And I wondered how realistic this pairing was. I think what we're seeing is the stress and pressure brought on from being an interracial couple during such a difficult time. Her saying "I'm not your n***a, is definitely her taking out her anger about MLK's murder on him. Not only is her husband white, but he's a white cop. And she's a part of a community that perceives white cops as victimizers to their community. So it's like she's sleeping with the enemy. She was probably upset with herself at the time as well too. Maybe she feels like some type of traitor to her race. I'm sure she'll continue to have issues with her own identity and role as a black woman as things get hotter between blacks and whites socially. I really felt sorry for Shafe though. He's not a bad guy. And he clearly loves her. But their coupling was doomed from the start.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

Lol. A race traitor? No. Marrying who you love is not being a race traitor. That statement implies black women are under some obligation to stay loyal to black men and if they don't they're wrong. She was pissed because Brian tried to boss her around with no regards for her feelings. If she thought Brian was the enemy, she would've never married him. As far as their marriage being doomed from the start black women/white men marriages have one of the lowest divorce rates in the country. So once again, no. From the looks of it Brian will be the downfall of the marriage because of drugs, nothing to do with her race.

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[–] therealshapeshifter 8 years ago

I thought her angry reaction was because he walked in and immediately ordered her to go home.

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[–] bab7410 8 years ago

He said it pretty gently. If that was my husband attending one of those 'meetings' when everyone else is rioting and we have a baby at home (already raised rather shaky/shady issue for being a police officer, full well knowing this is what he decided to do for a living), then I'm sorry, I think I would have lost my temper first! Kinda a WTF are you doing here?? Seriously??

IMO, it was an out of proportion response - she seemed totally enraged. Yes, he's white, he knows you're black, you've already had a child together. There shouldn't have been such pent up aggression about this - she thought about it, a LOT. She's too easy to succumb to murkier thought patterns, then forget it - it will always be a problem! I don't think it's fair to blow up like that at somebody. You're married - communicate! If anything, she shouldn't have been involved with the Panthers at this point - it's clear they have other intentions for her - least the leader. She wasn't working with the luncheons or whatever. And they already scoffed at the notion of non-violence.

I would have just said, look we have a real problem here if you don't come to terms that many people might be out for blood soon - and that includes the BP Party. I do agree that he can't tell her everything and and he was too short with her. He should have had a conversation with her before he addressed 'Bunchy.' But I see why he was quick with her, it's the Black Panther party - what is she doing there and to have the nerve to tell him that his job to keep the peace isn't the right choice.. as a spouse, these things would piss you off - you would be SWIFT with them!

IMO, it's a wonder they married. She doesn't trust him. She is less trusting, he is too accepting. When she makes her point - we don't see him make his. They both seem to communicate haphazardly. He should have figured out sooner that there's still some apparently heavy deviation in regards to their cultural perceptions. I'm not just talking about baggage about their colors - I mean their choices, careers, and attitudes about who raises the baby and how often the other will be around. He's up against a wall and could get separated from his own kid if she doesn't have one really good conversation with him to figure this out. Why surprise attack someone? I would been ticked about that. She's done that twice now that we have seen. Not cool.

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[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

Is that supposed to make a difference?

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[–] JaeBianca 8 years ago

Yeah, a bit. Especially, if you've never been around IR couples (particularly) from that period. 1) Historically, a lot of these relationships did fall apart. 2) He was speaking gently, but he was being paternalistic and patronizing at an emotional time, which was bound to trigger normally suppressed fears in a socially- conscious 60s-era woman. A lot of that does have to do with historical social and sexual dynamics between white men and black women. Growing up, I used to hear stories about fights like that. Was she being fair to him...no. But the emotions she was feeling were not crazy--just difficult for either of them to process.

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[–] cinles 8 years ago

What is interesting is that interracial marriage was still against the law in many states when the Shafe's got married. The Supreme Court ruling was made in 1967, the year this show was supposed to start. What made me think about that was the movie made about the couple who brought the suit that went to the Supreme Court. Something similar happened to them. They were from Virginia, but they couldn't live there or they would be thrown in jail, so they moved to Washington DC. The wife got involved in rallies and protests and hung around people who talked a lot about Martin Luther King. There was no violence and the husband wasn't a cop, but at first, he didn't understand. In fact, it looks like the writers of Aquarius might have watched that movie.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

Yes it makes a huge difference. I will never understand why white people think they have a right to police or think they can properly evaluate how black people feel and process things being that you have no idea what what it's like to be black in America. Especially Black in America at the time when a civil rights icon was gunned down and racial tensions were high.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

Exactly. Brian knew how much MLK meant to Kristin and he didn't even try to talk her about how she was feeling. Just ordered her around where she works in front of her coworkers. The Black Panthers already had a distrust for white cops then he barges in and acts like "God's Gift" just like Kristin said. She had every right to be upset.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

I agree that Brian should have taken the time to ask Kristin how she was. We know he called her but she wasn't home. Once he was on the job, he forgot about his first priority.

Do you think it was right for Kristin to hide the fact that Brian was a cop? I tend to equate that to Brian hiding the fact that Kristin is black.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

So they would distrust her and think she was there to possibly spy for the cops? Also he can easily hide the fact that he's a cop, but she can't hide the fact that she's black. So no, it's not nearly the same thing.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

Yes he can hide that he's a cop. I was thinking more along the lines of his being a cop is a part of who he is just like Kristin being black is a part of who she is.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they seemed to accept Kristin knowing she was married to a white guy though.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

Your occupation is what you do, not who you are. Comparing his job as the same as her being black is so offensive and simple minded. Maybe you need to research things before you post about the Black Panthers as many of them had white or asian wives/gfs themselves. So they couldn't come down on Kristin for being married to a white guy. Their distrust was mostly with police officers because of police brutality. So like I said, they may not have trusted Kristin to be part of the program if they knew Brian was a cop for fear she was spying.

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[–] GaelinW 8 years ago

I thought her angry reaction was because he walked in and immediately ordered her to go home.

I get that. But he did it as a husband to his wife in a potentially volatile situation. A husband of any race in the same position (as a cop) would have done the same thing to his wife of any race.

She was not only in the wrong for blowing up at him later but also getting in his business at the Panther's headquarter. His being there had nothing to do with her. She should have minded her own business.

I don't trust people who don't like pets and I don't trust people who pets don't like.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

His being there had nothing to do with her. She should have minded her own business.

The Commissioner chose Shafe for that very reason though. Brian was there because of Kristin's involvement with the BP. The Commissioner was hoping the fact that Kristin was highly regarded by Bunchy would give Shafe a better chance of convincing Bunchy to agree to the terms in his letter. Though he didn't at that time, we did see later when Shafe came again asking for help it was Kristin who convinced Bunchy to get on board.

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[–] GaelinW 8 years ago

The Commissioner chose him and Sam because they have what he perceives to be a pre-existing relationship with Bunchy and the Panthers. And because of that relationship, he figured Bunchy would respond positively to his request.

Anyway, my point was he didn't go there to see or tell Kristin anything. The purpose of his task was to deliver the letter from the Commissioner, something he would have done whether Kristin was there or not.

I don't trust people who don't like pets and I don't trust people who pets don't like.

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[–] pmbeatlefan 8 years ago

Exactly how I felt. His telling her she should be home with the baby was the most normal reaction in the world for a husband to a wife at that time. Race had nothing to do with it. Like it or not, the belief of society at that time was a mother's place was with her children. Yes, we look at that today and are offended by it, but she had no right to go off and say he was mistreating her because he wanted his wife to be home with their child in a time of crisis.

Totally over reacted and she's completely changed. She's an angry bitch all the time. He won't want to be with her if she keeps it up. Then again, I don't feel like she wants to be with him. Seems like she's pushing him away.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

Kristin didn't seem mad when Brian initially said that Bernadette needed her mother, not Kristin's.

I thought it was more about him telling her to stay out of it when he was talking to Bunchy. Then she assumes Brian told the Commish that she was involved with the BP (though we know he didn't because the Commish said they knew through surveillance), then he says come on I'll take you home to Bernadette.

I think she was stewing over all of that and you add on the fact that MLK was just shot dead. Kristin was probably pretty raw once she got home and she blew up.

I do think it was wrong for her to make it about race though but I understand it, especially given what day it was and the fact that she's probably being influenced by the BP.

I though it was a man/woman husband/wife thing not a black/white thing. He was ordering his wife around, which was wrong, not his *beep*. He should have asked her to go home in stead of ordering her to do so.

They both were wrong for carrying on their discussion in front of others. They should have had that exchange offline.

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[–] mystee_reyne 8 years ago

Nah...that was displaced anger/aggression.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

So Brian was totally right to barge in there and snap at her to go home? Not only that but Kristin just found he had been telling her business to his boss. You just want to find reasons to come down on Kristin rather that empathize with her. I don't know where her anger should've been directed if not at Brian. Was she to go to the precint and yell at his boss? Do tell?

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

Not only that but Kristin just found he had been telling her business to his boss.

The Commissioner said he knew about Kristin's work with the Panthers from surveillance by the FBI.

I don't blame Kristin for being angry at Brian for the way he handled things. The first thing he should have done was ask how she was doing and then explained to her why he was there and asked for her help in convincing Bunchy instead of telling her to stay out of it.

Shafe could have used some of the wisdom we saw Sam use when he was at the scene of Louise's murder and talking to the black cop.

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[–] pmbeatlefan 8 years ago

The way Sam behaves is completely incongruous with the way men typically behaved at the time. He is written that way to make things a little easier to digest for our modern times, but Shafe's behavior was actually very typical and normal. Yes, upsetting to us today, but to be expected then. And certainly not indicative of him not caring how his wife was feeling.

Remember, she told him the only involvement she had with the BP was helping with breakfast program because she wanted to help with the kids. And he has tried to call her and got no ants, and he's worried, then he finds her in the thick of the BP when she should be home with their daughter. He wasn't expecting to see her there, and certainly not acting with authority, telling people he's ok because he's with her. That had to have thrown him when he was already nervous.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

Brian's behavior being typical and normal is irrelevant to the point I was expressing. Typical and normal does not equate to wise and right.

Remember Kristin was on her way home when she heard about Dr King and came back to BP HQ so that is why she was there when Brian got there, not because she is doing more with the BP than she's telling Brian.

Telling those guys Brian was OK because he was with her is an act of authority? eh, I think anyone already inside HQ's could vouch for someone outside so I'm not buying that Kristin has some kind of elevated authority and she is lying to Brian by saying her only involvement with the BP was helping with the breakfast program. Plus they know Kristin is married, so vouching for her husband doesn't seem like it required her to be in a position of authority.

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[–] pmbeatlefan 8 years ago

Not necessarily in a position of authority, but she is obviously more than just a nice lady from the neighborhood who comes in to help give needy kids breakfast. If that was all she were to them, why would they have listened to her so quickly?

As for typical vs wise, you are using today's standards of wise and right. You're never going to come out with a satisfactory point of view if you can't accept what was right for the time. Accepting what was considered right for the time doesn't mean agreeing with it. But if you watch shows or movies that take place in other eras and expect characters to behave according to today's mores you will always be frustrated and disappointed.

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[–] LovingBooks 8 years ago

How was Sam's behavior incongruous with the times the show is set in? He drinks, smokes, swears, and womanizes. All are typical of a middle-aged, divorced ex-WW2 veteran.

How do you you picture the behavior of the same kind of man in the late 60s--hunting for a wife so they can lovingly watch the Huntley-Brinkley news hour while canoodling over meat loaf and green beans? The culture of that time was way more complicated than that. The war infiltrated all our lives, whether we actively pursued it or not. Marriage was starting to mean many different things, as women began to grow their own consciousness, and students were speaking out in ways they never were 'allowed' to before.

The culture was split into many sub- cultures and counter-cultures: hippies who were anti-war; hippies who were just looking for a place to fit in that was home, who truly believed in peace and love; pro-war sympathizers; anti-war activists; blacks who wanted freedoms and civil rights---and, as you might imagine, most of these factions didn't really understand or get along all that well.

My Daddy and 4 uncles, and 1 aunt were WW2 veterans. When they came home, they came home as heroes. They had jobs, built homes, and suffered the terrors of war in silence because that's what heroes did. Families saw the terrors, though--nightmares, PTSD that wasn't identified as a true disorder, physical maladies the Army didn't want to attribute to the war, alcoholism. And they surely didn't understand or sympathize with the draft dodgers or war protesters. They did their bit for their country, so why did these kids have the nerve to say they weren't willing to fight for freedom?

So you see, Sam's behavior was actually right on, and Schafe's was a little more advanced than normal. That he was so sweet with BP girl after finding out that she was higher up in power than just doing breakfasts shows a forward thinking husband with love in his heart. Betty Friedan and Masters and Johnson hadn't really set the world on fire, yet, so he was a step ahead of them, even..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Let's eat Granny!! Let's eat, Granny!!"
Punctuation matters.

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[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

The Black Panthers were a domestic terrorist organization. Why shouldn't he be annoyed with her involvement with them? Not a good choice on her part, and it shows a complete lack of discernment.

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[–] mystee_reyne 8 years ago

You have to consider the time in which all this takes place. During this time the black panthers are seen as defenders for their community--a community that feels under attack. Kristen is in a precarious situation. Because she's a member of that very community. Yet is married to a man who is by association, a part of the very group that community feels victimized by. Their pairing during that time is rather odd actually.

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[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

I am taking the time into consideration. Everyone was fully aware of the Black Panther's list of demands. In addition, not long after this that group ambushed some Oakland cops.

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[–] JaeBianca 8 years ago

I don't disagree with you about their place in history, but it's not so black and white (pun intended) in the context of the period. My aunt was a teenager in post-riots Watts (late-60s/early-70s) and was friendly with some members of the BPs. Many were ex-gangsters (or nouveau gangsters, if you will), but a good number (particularly female members and associates) were intelligent, idealistic and community-minded activists who needed an outlet that seemed to get things done when all others had failed. I like to compare the Watts community's relationship with the BPs, to Little Italy community's relationship to the Mafia. How they were perceived from the inside is different from how they were perceived from the outside.

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[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

I understand the "he may be a gangster, but he is our gangster" argument, but that still does not negate the argument.

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[–] JaeBianca 8 years ago

I wasn't trying to negate your argument. Certainly, she could have volunteered for Head Start instead. But her judgment shouldn't be thrown out the window any more than his, if who they associate with or what they do negates their cause.
Which ultimately might mean they both lack discernment.

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[–] fldow 8 years ago

The level of ignorance one would have to sort through for these types of threads is not only tedious, but seems counterproductive because having to state the obvious anti-black woman bias, incorrect societal information that is presented as factual and just pointing out the obvious (like the comment about "not understanding why there were white men marrying black women 'back then' when the Loving vs. Virginia case struck down discriminatory laws that specifically tried to BAN them) requires the patience of Job and then some. I will state that these forums are mostly cesspools for bottom-feeders who require far too much BASIC education and prefer to spew their bile behind fake profiles. It's one thing to have rousing debates that are productive. It's another thing for morons to complain about a character (or even the actress portraying the role personally) as if the ACTOR has autonomy. Complain about the WRITING if you don't like the story arc or character development. That's on the mostly WHITE MALE WRITING STAFF who more often that not INTENTIONALLY downplay, undercut and create these scenarios that so "irk" some of you. Maybe you should READ a BOOK while you're at it and learn some legit analytical skills in how to dissect a character. But what I see here is low-level interactions from low quality persons. In other words: TRASH. Trashy attitudes, perspectives and outlook.

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[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

Yes these forums can be cess pools filled with bottom feeders. My evidence for this is that you showed up. If we are complaining about a character in a show or movie, it is a given that we are complaining about the scriptwriters, directors, producers, etc. It usually goes without saying. For a show set in the 1967-1969 period the Hollywood powers that be have created a presentist mess with this character.
Most of us can do without the self-righteous, sanctimonious rants from a pompous twat bent on some social justice warrior crusade.

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

The writers created a mess by having a black woman on the show? Okay racist, I know you can't wait for the election to vote for Trump.

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[–] writetopcat 8 years ago

AGREED.
I don't know how the writers will play this out, but in my opinion any woman who talks like that to her husband doesn't love him. There is no love there.

I would leave that woman for sure.

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[–] Pippy-4 8 years ago

At first I really liked them together but not so much now. She really didn't sound as though she had any feelings for him now.

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[–] writetopcat 8 years ago

yeah. Still I have a feeling the writers will have them stay together.

But in real life, when someone expresses that kind and level of contempt it generally means it's over.

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[–] nnoppinger-2 8 years ago

She mostly caused this problem, and the writers are making him apologize for it. She is the one acting irrationally. She is blaming him sinply because he is whit, and are acting like he can't possibly relate to her emotionally. If this was a real marriage, it would be one heading to a quick divorce.

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[–] writetopcat 8 years ago

She mostly caused this problem, and the writers are making him apologize for it.

Right.
They think it makes Shafe a sympathetic character. But they go too far with this crap. Taking blame for crap you are blameless in is BS. Viewers lose respect for and are sickened by characters who wuss out like that.

If this was a real marriage, it would be one heading to a quick divorce.

I agree. Even if Shafe kept wussing out his wife would eventually lose respect for him and find someone else.

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[–] JaeBianca 8 years ago

Oddly enough, I've noticed that she has actually used the words "I love you" more than he ever has. And, I love that after 3 episodes showing him with a heroin addiction, people think that he's the one who needs to flee the relationship.

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[–] pmbeatlefan 8 years ago

Well, he had to take that first hit with the dealer after she got all Black Panthered and nagging him to quit being a cop because he wasn't making a difference etc etc.

Maybe if she hadn't turned into such a negative, complaining witch he could have gone to her for help and support after it happened. But since she is no longer the loving, caring, reasonable wife we saw in season one, he wouldn't dare let her know and would have no expectations of her understanding or trying to help him, which would only drive him to it more.

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[–] jakegunther1914 8 years ago

And now Brian is outright lying to her face about his drug use but he's the put upon one :\

I thought it was very significant that Kristin took him by the hands before confronting him about his drug use. She knows he's using yet her body language was welcoming and loving. Her tone was calm and soft, not accusing and harsh. She was practically begging him to come clean and still Brian chose to lie. Kristin knows he's lying yet she doesn't go off on him and instead kisses and embraces him ... but I guess it's still Kristin's fault that he is using and now lying to her face about it :\

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[–] JaeBianca 8 years ago

Thank you!

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[–] kerritumb 8 years ago

ITA! It's so clear that all the fault should be placed on Brian, but certain fans want to put the burden on Kristin. She clearly loves and is loyal to him. Brian on the other hand is putting himself, his wife and daughter in danger. I wish people would own up to why they really hate Kristin instead of reaching to blame her for stuff they shouldn't. By their logic anytime a married couple has a falling out that's a good excuse for one of them to indulge in drug use. Ridiculous. She wanted to talk it out and help him get clean and he chose to lie.

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[–] dexx-26415 8 years ago

The wife is completely unbearable, can't stand her constant pouty/ angry face.

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