I love the mood. The acting and production values are great.
I simply can't follow the plot. People get killed and I don't know why. Characters show up for no reason apparent to me. There are like a zillion supporting characters and dozens of sub-plots.
Is it just me or does anybody else not get the plot of this show?
Same here. The Manson related scenes are the only ones i understand since i already know what happened, but i'm totally lost in regards to all the fictional storylines, like the bikers, the strip club, and that guy Hal getting shot by Emma's dad. They're not giving us any reason to care about any of that. And now they've added yet another subplot for no reason, with Hodiak getting those pics of missing women.
shareThis show is inspired by real events, with completely fictitious elements introduced into the plot...like the made-up poisoning of the ex-con and his group by Manson.
shareThe bikers work as Charlie's muscle when he needs it because his bodyguard is apparently the leader of the biker gang.
The bikers made a deal with the lady part owner to get in on the action of the strip club in exchange for killing the smart ass kid who became acting manager and partner in the club.
Ken Karn killed Hal Banyan because Hal was a continuing liability and Ken had to keep bailing him out of trouble. Hal liked to beat up prostitutes and tended to go too far when he got drunk, killing them. After Ken had finally gotten rid of the evidence of the first murdered girl, Hal screwed up and killed another one. Charlie Manson hid the body of that second dead hooker, which had Hal's DNA and fingerprint evidence all over her, which once again gave Charlie leverage over Hal and the law firm.
Ken had apparently done the math on that. He knew that even if somehow they managed to get out from under Charlie's control on this once again, it would only be a matter of time until Hal screwed up once again and killed another girl.
Staging Hal's suicide solved the immediate problem of the recently killed hooker. That dead body could only implicate Hal, not Ken. Also, Hal had just learned of Ken's secret; he is a homo. Perhaps that also scared Ken in and of itself.
If you have Netflix, watch the first season over again on that. It's always easier to pick up the details the second time around since you already know most of the story.
I thought it was just me.
shareI thought the same thing last season, but I still enjoyed it. When I watched season one again, it was so much better. Also, that was considered 3 episodes last night, so it was a lot all at once.
shareHa ha. I thought the same thing. Some of the subplots I get a bit lost with. I still like the show though. Duchovny kind of carries it really.
shareYeah,I have trouble following it at times too. I watched it again on my DVR and was able to understand some of the scenes better. This is the type of show you really have to concentrate:)Guess I can't be on my I Phone while watching😀
shareI don't love it, but I'm having the same trouble following it as you. I'm watching because I watched the first season, and thought it was entertaining enough, but I'm lost in this season.
shareI watched it again today and it's not any better. They separated it into 3 episodes, but with the flashbacks and the feeling that something was missing, I wasn't quite sure where I was after episode 3. Flashbacks seem to be the in thing, but they are hard to do successfully.
shareNow I feel a little better
I saw it on the web site, so it was already split into 3 episodes. I think I only got to a little bit into the 3rd when I fell asleep. You're so right, flashbacks can be great, but they're difficult to pull off.
Because I miss details when I watch something on TV and it was 3 episodes all smushed together, when I watched it online, I thought I must have missed a lot when I watched it on TV. I understood it better the second time, but in addition to the many flashbacks, the storyline editing was a little choppy too.
shareHuh, must be me. I don't have any real problem. Obviously, there are some things we are meant to not understand fully until they unfold all the way, but I have never felt lost or confused. A little annoyed at the liberties with the Manson history, but that's par for the course.
shareI don't get it either. I also find that it bounces around way too much.
It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog
Yes Charmaine is a interesting character. Partly because I like the actress.
shareCan someone explain why they start nearly every episode with August 9, 1969 then flashback? I suspect the series will end when the flashback time works its way to the killings?
GFW
You mean like they did last night?
shareWell, I just watched the last two episodes and my god they were a little to gruesome for me. It had me on the edge of my seat but it made me sick to my stomach. All well acted by everyone. To anyone that has said that David can't act all I have to say is that they are nuts!! He is amazing in this series. Like I said once before I don't think this is the type of show I would have watched if David wasn't in it.
shareYes Pippy I agree, it was rough. I have mentioned on this Board that I have studied the Tate/LaBianca case for 30 years, and the Hinman/Tate killings were painful to watch. Sadly, it really happened to real people.
shareGFW,
As you know, August 9 (around midnight), '69, is when the Tate murders occurred. That would be what I call the "end game", or "climax". You are correct that the flashbacks have worked they way up---last night---to August 9, 1969.
At the very end of the show, you saw that they were calling every Police they could get their hands on. What had happened in real life, as we saw earlier in a flash-back; the Polanski's maid arrived at Cielo for her day of work. She was hysterical and ran to a neighbor's home, where from there, the Police were called. The Polanski residence was compared to (in real life), a "battleground". So, we see in that last scene, all stops are pulled to get as much reinforcement over to Cielo Drive.
If last night was indeed the series finale, then so be it; however, if they are going to continue with the Manson-Tate/LaBianca story---there is so much more to it, including the terrible, gruesome deaths of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca, the very next night.
I think it was pretty obvious, well to me, if they continue the series, it will start where they left off. They can make an entire season catching everyone plus all their little side stories. Then the next season can be the trial.
shareRight, I agree. Time will tell!
shareI don't think the next season will be the trial but the other murders as his dementia escalates and his all-consuming power rises after the brutal shot down by Ken, (wow) as I've always said rejection is the core to most if not all crime and mental illness, and yes, this theory can be debated, but we see it here by Wilson and next Ken, while DRUGGED telling him a truth he can't handle, that his mother didn't live him and he seeks to find that in everyone else (by controlling them).
Back to the historical poster. I recall the housekeeper showing up to find the grizzly senseless murders. But there is so much evidence there I'm surprised it would take them very long at all, but then Ken is out of the picture, as is his biker dude 'friend' (a term used loosely as psychopaths don't have friends just enablers same like addicts). But Emma (and is she a 'real' character or invented one) is told to leave the telltale talisman that now has (a very well acting) Hodiack in hot pursuit and un-fired. Loved that scene.
It is exciting but the side stories, especially the smack-addicted copper is a tad too much for me, but those things existed then in the police as they do now I suspect? Don't know, seems a heroin addict wouldn't be too lucid as they have Shafe so it's a touchy point with me.
Oh, and to the poster who suggested "Manson" by Jeff Guinn (sp), thanks! I've got a sample pulled and will most likely read it. He says he doesn't pay for interview so lost Candance Bergen (sp) but think with the family members he might have offered something by way of book sales, who knows. But I want to read that.
GFW
GFW, I believe Emma is loosely based on Linda Kasabian; especially at the Tate murders. Linda did not actually enter the Tate home, but was standing outside and saw Voycheck(sp) run out of the house, being pursued by Tex. She may have seen the Folger/Krenwinkle struggle, but Linda has never mentioned watching Sharon being murdered. I believe by that time, Linda was so terrified that she had already run back to the car. Also, there is also no account of her entering the care-takers guesthouse... I believe she did report back to Tex that she had not found anyone else on the grounds.... She testified that the minute Steven Parent was shot, she went into shock.
I cannot remember if you said you had, but I recommend reading "Helter Skelter", by Vincent Bugliosi. It is a fascinating book, and you will be able to see what is fact/fiction....lots of blurred lines between the two in Aquarius, but that is disclosed at the beginning of each show.
Hey thanks. I think I read at some point some of "Helter Skelter" but never finished it due to the analytical type of writing (mostly facts, which I forget as soon as I read them more interested in the psyche stuff at how someone arrives to where killing another person seems like the thing to do for whatever reason). Another poster recommended "Manson" as it's new and the author scored interviews with his sister and another relative that hasn't been included before, plus, at Amazon there's a short interview with Jeff about what he found interesting to talk about in this, yet another Manson, book.
One of the best reasons for coming to IMDb is the participation by people, much like yourself, whereas we wouldn't get that elsewhere.
So did the fella in the guest house, and the dog didn't react?, ever talk?
GFW
I would highly recommend reading Ed Sanders "The Family". I LOVE his style of writing and there is an updated version.
Yes, William Garretson was arrested the next morning; being the only one unharmed/not murdered at Cielo. The dog belonged to Rudi Altobelli; the owner of Cielo. Altobelli had hired Garretson to look after the property as Altobelli traveled often. He had rented out the main residence to Sharon and Roman that Spring.
Garretson passed a lie detector test and was released. He had a hard time convincing Police that he had not heard the gunshots and screams. However, he did have the stereo on in the guesthouse.
**Another interesting note: Sharon Tate had invited Winifred Chapman (the Housekeeper) to stay over that Friday night, because it was so hot in the city (where Mrs. Chapman lived). Mrs. Chapman, as we know, declined that gracious offer. From everything that I have ever read, Sharon Tate was a kind, generous person to all creatures, great and small. It was reported she was taking care of 18-plus cats on the property and loved people and animals dearly.
GFW,Thanks but if they make this the last episode they have David running after Emma without any further outcome. I think they're (reading here, bet on it) and want to create something that'll last a longer time, thus the substories within the 'big' story. And frankly I don't care too much about Ken's wife anymore because she's not with David. I think the addict is over the top, his being married to a Black Panther supporter or member is a bit too much too, and faltering because of it. I'd go on but mostly I'm tuned in for 1) to watch David; 2) to watch Adrien (Manson); 3) to see how they catch the bastard; 4) the trial and more acting for Adrien (Manson) because the British actor has him, I suspect, nailed and more than did his "homework" because he's amazing in this; 5) see them work in how they did before the Internet and cell phones in catching this demonic tortured soul; 6) for the music (that could move past obvious songs).
As you know, August 9 (around midnight), '69, is when the Tate murders occurred. That would be what I call the "end game", or "climax". You are correct that the flashbacks have worked they way up---last night---to August 9, 1969.
At the very end of the show, you saw that they were calling every Police they could get their hands on. What had happened in real life, as we saw earlier in a flash-back; the Polanski's maid arrived at Cielo for her day of work. She was hysterical and ran to a neighbor's home, where from there, the Police were called. The Polanski residence was compared to (in real life), a "battleground". So, we see in that last scene, all stops are pulled to get as much reinforcement over to Cielo Drive.
If last night was indeed the series finale, then so be it; however, if they are going to continue with the Manson-Tate/LaBianca story---there is so much more to it, including the terrible, gruesome deaths of Rosemary and Leno LaBianca, the very next night.
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