MovieChat Forums > Rogue One (2016) Discussion > Incorrect response to the Vader scene

Incorrect response to the Vader scene

posted 8 years ago by masterron1
11 replies | jump to latest

Discounting the response that the writers/producers wanted to elicit from the audience during the "Vader Attack Scene" ("You're gonna love how badass Vader is in this scene"), which they succeeded in doing, the response was incorrect in the context of the story.

During that scene, the rebels are just barely able to transfer the Death Star plans that our main characters fought and died for. The scene should have given us the feeling of concern that our heroes died for nothing because this powerful man in the black suit will recover the plans. We should be worried that the rebels won't be able to transfer the plans. Instead, the audience responded by, sort of, rooting for the bad guy, because of how awesome he is.

I suppose that speaks to the inherent problems with the film (which I still enjoyed, by the way): 1) That we weren't all that invested in the new main characters, 2) That we knew how the story was going to end beforehand, and 3) That fan service was a very large element of the film.

Thoughts?

[–] KingBrian1 8 years ago

It is often the case that fans will root for the villain. Villains are rarely boring & do gooders. Even Rogue One were not exactly conventional heroes and they get a lot praise from the fan community so the reaction to Vader was usual. Who does not want to see Vader behaving exactly like a ruthless stormtrooper general! He swept the scene with his presence and overpowered them with the power of the Dark Side of the Force, we saw the reverse of that in ROTJ when Luke resisted and engineered Vader to renounce the Dark Side and destroy his master.

[–] masterron1 8 years ago

I see what you're trying to say, KingBrian1, and I appreciate your response, however, the point stands: The enjoyment of seeing Darth Vader be a badass is in direct contradiction to the story being told by the film. That scene, in context should have been about us worrying that Vader would get the plans, not us hoping he'll kill more good guys to do it. It's good to have an imposing villain. There is plenty of enjoyment to be gained from seeing a strong villain do his thing, but it should come "second fiddle" to the story being told.

[–] KingBrian1 8 years ago

It is also worth pointing out that the Rebels he was killing were generic like the Stormtroopers getting killed all the time during the Saga. For a change we saw the Empire finally doing a number on the minions of the Republic. Every single Stormtrooper out there who was likely to be unrealistically killed by the superhuman abilities of the Jedi's were cheering and praising Lord Vader.

[–] Darth_Qaidous 8 years ago

Cannot both things be true? Can we not feel for the great sacrifice of the heroes of R1 and at the same time be happy to see Darth Vader in action? I think you mistake the reactions of some for a lack of empathy across the board for those who gave their lives so that the Rebellion might live on. In part your point has truth to it, but it also seems to deny credit to the people/fans who can see all sides of the scene. I for one cared for the heroes of the film and with their brief part in the saga I feel their loss.

[–] Sunny_Nelson 8 years ago

What Darth-Qaidous said.

In many stories, we often do find ourselves rooting for the bad guy when we probably shouldn't be. This can happen in Greek Tragedy, Shakespeare, Opera and all sorts of layered stories. It's not an incorrect response, it's a conflict.

[–] SickBoyGoreHound 8 years ago

Your point would stand if that scene was, in fact, in the context of the story. It wasn't, by that point, the story the movie was telling was over (plans stolen, main characters dead) - Vader's scene was basically an epilogue of sort.

You'd been right if the same scene was played, for example, after Krennic's death: if the climax of the movie was Vader chasing down Jyn and Cassian then, yes, the elicited response would've been incorrect in that context.

The way it was presented, it was just a bonus, icing on the cake.

By the way, the points you raise are appliable to any prequel, really: prequels are always based on massive fan service (just like sequels and reboots, by the way) and it's in their nature that we know how the story (or, at least, a part of it) is going to end. We always knew Anakin would end up in the black suit. We always knew Bilbo was going to survive and keep the ring - and so on.

Also, it should be noted that Star Wars basically invented the concept of fan service: every Star Wars related product since before 1983 has been largely (and, most often than not, entirely) based on fan service - exactly like it has always been about selling toys and merchandising.

R1 was - as the title suggested - a star wars story. It told that story and then added a Vader-slashing-rebels shaped cherry on top.

[–] blakkdog 8 years ago

well said. I knew they would succeed at keeping the plans out of Vaders hands as did everybody else on the planet so this concept of "cheering against the good guys" doesnt really work here. Plus this scene was more than JUST "vader kicking ass" as so many here seem to see it. Im not sure if its a generational divide or not, but for me the most powerful part about this scene was that it was the most powerful part of a 15 odd minute build up to that point in my youth where I first set eyes on Star Wars on the big screen. As I saw this developing, I realized it was leading up to that point that 40 years ago a small child in a theater first watched and was hypnotized by its magic as some ship ran for its life while being pursued and shot at by a giant star destroyer. So the build up was quickening for me and the Vader scene was simply a breath taking shot of pure adrenaline toward that quickening. And then when that ship undocked and shot away. The SAME EXACT ship I saw in a theater in 1977 when the lights first went down. And then to top it all off, just as you are at the edge of being overwhelmed by whats going on, you get ten seconds of a young Leia to push you over that edge. It was utter nostalgia euphoria. Transcendent and rapturous. I could barely contain myself.

So it wasnt so much that "vader was a badass" and thats it. Not for me at least. It was the roller coaster build up to that point in your youth (my youth) where you first caught the magic. It was a cinematic time machine reaching directly back to 1977 in a way that I almost wasnt prepared for.

---
http://letterboxd.com/blakkdog/

[–] AdmiralRaddus 8 years ago

The filmmakers walked a thin line with that scene, in that it both was supposed to be a desperate, tragic and frightening scene as well as an inevitable fanboy moment where Vader is finally seen gloriously kicking butt. They may have played it a bit over the top to the point where the scene seems too self aware of its own fanservice, like it was constructed to get cheers from the Vader loving audience. The OT never went out of its way to paint Vader as a sort of over the top serial killer who enters a battle alone and mass murders everyone graphically, and he was still cool and scary. Its often implied violence that works best so I dont think this scene will hold up very well.

The Shroud of the Disney has fallen. Begun the Jar Jar Abrahams Wars have.

[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

Any good story of good vs Evil will have a great villain....

Vader SHOULD have faced off with R1, thats the one we missed.....

Vader chasing Luke in ANH, and he lost. This was his moment...

It was fanservice when it should not have; Jyn-Cassian on the beach works, Chirrut death works, but i think the Pilot or Baze should have faced Vader.

http://my-impressionz.cu.cc

[–] jrsjr81 8 years ago

Considering that there's already a movie set after the events of Rogue One the audience already knows that the Death Star plans will be safe with the Rebellion and that's why they root for Vader in that intense and stunning scene at the end. So therefore it doesn't matter that the writer's had their response be incorrect in the context of the story. I can't wait for these message boards to die.

[–] trpea 8 years ago

Everyone knows they succeed in keeping the plans from Vader ... I don't get the point of this thread.

Nitpick much?