MovieChat Forums > Rogue One (2016) Discussion > Was the force in Star Wars too simple?

Was the force in Star Wars too simple?


"The dark side, and the light." Good versus evil. White versus black.

In some ways, the simplicity of Lucas' Star Wars is a thing of beauty. Like Yin and Yang.

In other ways, it's f-cking asinine and insulting. The "good" and selfless Jedi were imbued with powers separate and distinct from the evil and selfish Sith, yet we see brief glimpses of Jedi embracing the dark side momentarily (e.g. Obiwan in E1, Luke in E6). This grants them a transient boost to power, but sustained use takes a physical and mental toll (Lucas was clearly familiar with speed).

My issue is this: Disney seems to want to take a far more nuanced and imo interesting take on the duality of light and dark in future films. I.e. Kylo Ren is prized by Discount Palpatine/Snoke because he harbors a balance between light and dark. Intellectually speaking, this is interesting to me. Will it work onscreen? I don't f-cking know or care, but FuriousStyles can suck my cock from flaccid to erect until it jizzes all over his wretched face, just like his mommy did last night.

Please discuss.

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The good side was tapping in to the force and using the powers for good, a slight force push, mind tricks, grabbing a dropped lightsaber but not going any further than that. The bad side was tapping further in to the force and using the evil powers like force choke, force lightning, mind probe etc.

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It's not as simple as you describe. There is no "light side", just the Force. Tapping into different emotions gives you access to different powersets. The Sith abilities are derived from malice, anger, pain, etc. You cannot master the full capabilities of the Force until you master your emotions.

What Disney has done in TFA, where Kylo Ren speaks of a "pull to the light", is actually dumbing down the original Force concept by turning it into simple black vs. white, as you've described.

There is no mystical competition between "sides" of the Force. The only thing that matters, BEFORE DISNEY, is the emotions that drive the Force user.

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There is no mystical competition between "sides" of the Force. The only thing that matters, BEFORE DISNEY, is the emotions that drive the Force user.




Did Lucas really establish this or is that from the novels/EU?

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Disney made the Force shallower. In the PT we see how a person can become evil if he succumbs to bad but all too human emotions. In Anakins case it was a lust for power that corrupted his mind (the power to stop war, to stop people from dying). Mind you, I see the light and dark more as a spiritual concept instead of a fighting state of mind that a person can tap into. Obi Wan didnt give in to the dark side because his moves were more aggressive, he went dark because he was blinded with sadness and anger over his masters death by Maul. Maybe it goes together.

The "pull to the light" was never shown in Kylo through some situation. Like a situation where his "light" side shone through. The last scene with Han Solo was an act. The Light and Dark side are very simplistic in TFA. Like you can easily switch over to the other side, like changing your facebook status. The sequels will have to dig deeper.

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Oh damn I just saw the invisible text. Trolled by Putin.

The Shroud of the Disney has fallen. Begun the Jar Jar Abrahams Wars have.

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It's not as simple as you describe. There is no "light side", just the Force. Tapping into different emotions gives you access to different powersets. The Sith abilities are derived from malice, anger, pain, etc. You cannot master the full capabilities of the Force until you master your emotions.


I think the OP stated this in the OP. He noted the artistic brilliance of the presentation of a dual nature (good and evil) to the force, but took issue with it on a more philosophical level in-line with your reply.

The issue I see if with the identified "sides" being light and dark, your characters identify with the "light and dark." We see the physical and psychological effects of conversion to the dark side is stark and immediate as shown in episode 3. The resulting Darth Vader was very much unlike Anakin Skywalker. This transition took minutes once Palpatine-Mace acted to catalyst the conversion to the "dark side." This literally resulted in Vader's eye color changing.

What Disney has done in TFA, where Kylo Ren speaks of a "pull to the light", is actually dumbing down the original Force concept by turning it into simple black vs. white, as you've described.


Ren's being manipulated into believing the dark side is the only alternative to the inferior light side (from his vantage point). Snoke flat-out states he likes Ren due to his connection to the light and the dark (across the spectrum bridging the two extremes), but Ren only focuses on the dark so far as we see.

Because these categories exist in the minds of the characters whose emotions you state control the direction of the force and how it's wielded, Ren is a practioner of the dark side of the force and not the light side to our knowledge.

There is no mystical competition between "sides" of the Force. The only thing that matters, BEFORE DISNEY, is the emotions that drive the Force user.


Your points, though interesting, are not valid on the whole. Disney is not inserting anything about some mystical competition b/w the sides of the force. There is, however, a very prominently featured set of changes shown repeatedly to alter characters based on how far they trend toward one end of the dark-light force spectrum, with temptation toward the dark being extremely enticing as Mace Windu who used the "dark side" on the regular noted many, many, many times.

-AP

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