MovieChat Forums > The Young Pope (2017) Discussion > The LENNY was 8 YEARS OLD DISCREPANCY: I...

The LENNY was 8 YEARS OLD DISCREPANCY: IS his MOTHER a FAIRY TALE???


Did anyone else notice the way LENNY said he found PEACE in Arizona or Colorado when he was 8 YEARS OLD???

Then we see FLASHBACKS of his BLONDE haired MOTHER again, walking around in her UNDERWARE like LENNY does.

And they're also by some kind of a stream with running water???

His DARK HAIR HIPPIE looking father is also there as well.

But if LENNY was ADOPTED when he was 7 YEARS OLD,

then how can he remember being with his mother when he was

8 YEARS OLD???

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Can anyone else explain this DISCREPANCY???

Does this mean there's a problem with LENNY'S MEMORIES of his mother???

His mother also seems to have had some kind of a BREATHING PROBLEM as well.

Could it be ASTHMA???

Could she have DIED during an ASTHMA ATTACK and she didn't really ABANDON LENNY the way that he thinks and remembers???

Since what may be the death of the BEAUTIFUL BLOND GIRL is also BLENDED IN TOGETHER WITH ...

and takes place at the SAME TIME as the death of the other woman does in AFRICA ...

could that also indicate the OTHER WOMAN who HOARDS the WATER might also be LENNY'S MOTHER???

WHY else would they have LENNY'S BLOND MOTHER breathing at the SAME TIME as this other woman does when she dies???

Why are they making a CONNECTION between the 2 of them???

Could we also have an OEDIPAL ISSUE going on here???

One where LENNY KILLS his MOTHER instead of his FATHER???

If not LITERALLY, then at least FIGURATIVELY (by discarding his memory of her and TURNING her into this other GORGEOUS BLOND LOOKING creature)???

And maybe that also explains the DISCREPANCY because of the way he turns his MEMORY of her into this other MUCH MORE IDEALISTIC FAIRY TALE VERSION that we've been seeing ...

sort of like the same way as the other YOUNG GIRL did ...

when she told the other SICK CHILDREN her FAIRY TALE STORIES about the VIRGIN MARY ???

And maybe SISTER MARY was also the one who PLANTED the FALSE MEMORIES of his HIPPIE mother into LENNY'S YOUNG brain???

And could the other YOUNG GIRL who told the stories to the other children also have actually been THE VIRGIN MARY???

Also wonder how LENNY will feel if and whenever he also discovers that the HIPPIE PARENTS he's REBELLING AGAINST are FICTIOUS and never really existed???


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Bumping up for BETTY ...

so she can see the theory put forth ...

about LENNY having MEMORIES at age 8 ...

of still being with his PARENTS ...

when he's also suppose to have been with SISTER MARY since AGE 7.

Thus also GIVING US a HINT that LENNY'S MEMORIES are NOT something that one can RELY ON to be FACTUAL.

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Didn't catch the age discrepancy, I'm just guessing on this one.
The one thing which confuses me he keeps saying he deosn't remember his parents and keeps asking others about them, what did the look like, who were they, etc? Asked Dossier and Sister Mary. If he has true memories of them, why does he keep trying to remember them and ask others who they were/what they looked like?

Sister Antonia isn't his mother but she is the embodiment of the evil he sees in the church. Why out of all the backstabbers, his enemies, the abusers did he pray for god to physically stop her? Why didn't he pray for the dictator to die, the people fighting the war creating the problem? His own enemies? His concern IMO is foremost the church and she embodied the selfishness and corruption of the individual members of the church. He seems to have made a change after Africa, a new more humbled child like Pope.
Rather than fighting the whole church, now taking on the individuals causing the corruption? Hence maybe he did something right and god did as he asked....or Antonia was simply poisoned.


The significance of his age in his childhood vision, could relate to The sacrament of the first communion. Its performed at around 7 or age 8. A big event and is celebrated by the family, gifts are sometimes given. The child should be baptized by age 8 and that vision of them being near water may have some significance to those important ages, especially the age of needing to be baptized.


β€œI’m more humble than you can understand”-Donnie Dump

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Didn't catch the age discrepancy, I'm just guessing on this one.
The one thing which confuses me he keeps saying he deosn't remember his parents and keeps asking others about them, what did the look like, who were they, etc? Asked Dossier and Sister Mary. If he has true memories of them, why does he keep trying to remember them and ask others who they were/what they looked like?


Yes the AGE DISCREPANCY hits one over the head like a LEAD BALLOON letting us know that there's definitely something VERY WRONG with LENNY'S MEMORIES.

And when they combine them with these other VISIONS that he sees of the 18 YEAR OLD GIRL in the GARDEN (the one who is up for SAINT HOOD), and with his other NIGHT VISION of the TOPLESS ABORTION PROTESTERS who were also in the GARDEN, then we've also been given HINTS that the VISIONS he sees of his HIPPIE PARENTS aren't REAL either.

And all ANDREW said that he remembered was LENNY'S mother had a PART in the MIDDLE of her hair.

But LENNY also claims to remember the SMELL of his MOTHER which might be a REAL MEMORY.

Sister Antonia isn't his mother but she is the embodiment of the evil he sees in the church. Why out of all the backstabbers, his enemies, the abusers did he pray for god to physically stop her? Why didn't he pray for the dictator to die, the people fighting the war creating the problem? His own enemies? His concern IMO is foremost the church and she embodied the selfishness and corruption of the individual members of the church. He seems to have made a change after Africa, a new more humbled child like Pope.


ON DEMAND has something after EACH EPISODE where they discuss the show. And at the end of EP. 8 the creator says he deliberately leaves it AMBIGUOUS as to whether or not LENNY had something to do with the death of this NUN who HOARDS the water.

So he's also leaving it open that LENNY may also NOT have been responsible for her death.

And someone may also have POISONED that BOTTLE of water she drank. NOTE the way the woman she goes to for help also TURNS OVER in her SLEEP and REFUSED to help her. So maybe she's also the one who did it??? Especially if she was tired of being woke up in the middle of the night with the NUN wanting sexual favors from her???

Did the DICTATOR HOARD the WATER???

Did he know about it???

That also wasn't made clear to us. Was the WAR over the water???

Whatever they're fighting about was also LEFT AMBIGUOUS.


Rather than fighting the whole church, now taking on the individuals causing the corruption? Hence maybe he did something right and god did as he asked....or Antonia was simply poisoned.


This is what one suspects happened due to the reaction she had after drinking the water. But she may also have had a heart attack as well.


The significance of his age in his childhood vision, could relate to The sacrament of the first communion. Its performed at around 7 or age 8. A big event and is celebrated by the family, gifts are sometimes given. The child should be baptized by age 8 and that vision of them being near water may have some significance to those important ages, especially the age of needing to be baptized.


Yes AGE 7 is the age of first communion. I remember my 1st cousins and other neighborhood kids at that age. The neighborhood kids would also go to CATHOLIC SCHOOL until their FIRST communion, and then they'd join the rest of us in PUBLIC SCHOOL, and they'd also be way ahead of us, because we first learned to PRINT letters before we learned CURSIVE writing at age 8.

But the CATHOLIC KIDS already knew how to write in the CURSIVE STYLE.

And since it's also the AGE where one is suppose to be old enough to understand SIN, then shouldn't LENNY also be OLD ENOUGH to recall CORRECTLY what his PARENTS looked like???

That's still another CLUE that something's not right.

Because MOST 7 YEAR OLDS would probably also still remember what their parents looked like.

And that leaves one with the impression that SISTER MARY may have told LENNY stories about his parents that were FAIRY TALES, perhaps as a way to try and save him from the BAD MEMORY of some other kind of PAINFUL situation???

If his MOTHER had an ASTHMA ATTACK and died in front of LENNY, for example, maybe he also kept having NIGHTMARES about it after it happened???

So maybe SISTER MARY also told him FAIRY TALE versions of what happened, the same way as the other 18 year old MADE UP FAIRY TALE versions of the VIRGIN MARY for the other sick kids???

Since Voiello keeps acting like he and SISTER MARY are intimate, wonder if SISTER MARY might also be LENNY's MOTHER???

The NEW SPOILER INFO TOPIC also tells us something else very interesting about VOIELLO that's coming up soon.

So if you don't mind being SPOILED, then check out that TOPIC.

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Sister Antonia isn't his mother but she is the embodiment of the evil he sees in the church. Why out of all the backstabbers, his enemies, the abusers did he pray for god to physically stop her? Why didn't he pray for the dictator to die, the people fighting the war creating the problem? His own enemies? His concern IMO is foremost the church and she embodied the selfishness and corruption of the individual members of the church. He seems to have made a change after Africa, a new more humbled child like Pope.
Rather than fighting the whole church, now taking on the individuals causing the corruption? Hence maybe he did something right and god did as he asked....or Antonia was simply poisoned.


I like your post BettyX. Good sound thoughts.

Consider this: Sister Antonia had been outed by the Pope and a call from him to cast her thoughts inward on her own transgressions (temptations). She knew that he knew. The empty cup that gets broken on the floor after his admonishment to her is a pivotal point. Lenny felt there was no time to waste in calling on God to change the situation in the community. Could that be what he was praying for? Maybe in the middle of the night in coming to terms with her own conscience she had a heart attack? I cannot see Lenny praying to God to smite her down but to look upon her and intervene.

I also think Africa changed him. It took him outside himself and gave him a broader view of world needs. His second calling?



"Absence is presence". - Pius XIII (Lenny Belardo)

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I also think Africa changed him. It took him outside himself and gave him a broader view of world needs. His second calling?


Perhaps a FIRST CALLING would be a better way to put it??? And this trip also gave LENNY a much needed BROADER VIEW of the WORLD which was what he needed???

Because as you've also already pointed out elsewhere, LENNY is also like ADAM and EVE in the GARDEN, due to the way he's grown up in this PROTECTIVE CACOON like EXISTENCE there inside of the VATICAN.

In other words, the GARDEN LIKE EXISTENCE inside of the VATICAN is also like still being inside of the WOMB, where everything one needs is provided for you, even the temperature so that one doesn't need to wear clothing.

But to remain forever inside of the WOMB or inside of the PROTECTIVE GARDEN would also NOT be a NORMAL or a NATURAL STATE, and one also needs to be EXPELLED from it.

So one could also say that the TRIP to AFRICA has been like EATING from the TREE of KNOWLEDGE for LENNY.

And the other that CARDINAL that LENNY EXPELLED from the VATICAN is also like LENNY.

Because Symbolically speaking he's also EATING from the TREE of KNOWLEDGE now as well.

So one could also look at both of them as being like ADAM and EVE, who also became AWARE of themselves and of their SEXUALITY once they'd EATEN from that FORBIDDEN TREE.

And whatever it is that the REPORTER on the plane said that this other guy has on LENNY ...

will NO DOUBT also end up being another situation like LENNY hiding in the BUSHES ...

as a way to try to conceal his NAKEDNESS from GOD ...

the same way as ADAM and EVE did once they'd eaten from the FORBIDDEN TREE.

To put it still another way, THE FALL was also a FORTUNATE THING to have happen to him and to them.

Because to remain FOREVER there inside of the WOMB would also NOT be a NORMAL or a NATURAL STATE, or one that would be good for you (or be good for your poor mother who gives birth to you either).

EXPULSION is definitely a MUCH BETTER OPTION.

And with the help of others, it also looks like LENNY'S METAPHORICALLY been EXPELLED from his WOMB LIKE state there inside of the VATICAN GARDEN.

And that may also be the reason why we see the DEAD KANGAROO.

Because it may also represent the WILD UNTAMED ADAM running around inside of the GARDEN with the ANIMALS, before the introduction of EVE, who was also placed there as a way to TAME and CIVILIZE him.

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Remember when Andrew & Lenny ran away from the orphanage? They ran away & that's where he saw 'his parents'.

*Soooooo Complicated. Not.'

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Remember when Andrew & Lenny ran away from the orphanage? They ran away & that's where he saw 'his parents'.


What were they doing when he saw them???

Which EPISODE does it happen in???

Are you sure that he actually SAW THEM and they weren't another one of his VISIONS ... like when he sees the 18 year old girl who told VIRGIN MARY FAIRY TALES to the sick kids ... or when he sees the other girls who were PROTESTING his ANTI ABORTION stance???

If the scene happens in EPISODE 3, then for some reason ON DEMAND also doesn't have (and has NEVER HAD) that EPISODE AVAILABLE for viewing.

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I Have Ep 3 & refuse to release it. I think it was in a later seen. When he & Andrew we're on the rocks, drying off. Shows the hippie mom & dad. And Young Lenny smelling her.

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