https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/the-last-of-us-episode-8-ratings-viewers-1235544609/
But I was reliably and consistently told that "go woke go broke!"
You were told right.
Be that as it may, this show is doing very well.
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I dont believe any of their "self-reporting" ratings.
People love zombie shows and there is nothing to watch these days. But its just bad and nothing happens. By the season 2 lots of viewers will not return. This show is going into Walking Dead later seasons territory where whole show became about "talking about feelings" instead of survival and people stopped watching.
So why are people returning now? It's funny how EVERYTHING is a conspiracy to you guys. Covid data. TV viewing figures. Nothing that contradicts your worldview may be true.
Why does it have 252,000 user ratings on IMDB?
This show is going into Walking Dead later seasons territory where whole show became about "talking about feelings" instead of survival and people stopped watching.
People were hooked with promise of good zombie show and watch till the end of season to see how it will end. And people still hope that zombie tension will come to play. But the more filler episodes there will be the more people will tune out.
Episode 8 was the first time I used fast forward button. When they kept going with those cult people and I had zero desire to hear whats their problems are as none of it matters as Ellie and Joel with kill them all by the end of episode and move to another "villain of the week" episode. Ok maybe second time. I think I used it during Kathleen boring talk too.
Walking Dead was huge in first seasons. Then started losing viewers fast and by the end barely anyone watched. I think at this point they were losing money. But they didnt stop since it was the only show at AMC that still had any name recognition so they clinged to it. Then had to eventually cancel it since no one was watching at all.
People were hooked with promise of good zombie show and watch till the end of season to see how it will end. And people still hope that zombie tension will come to play. But the more filler episodes there will be the more people will tune out.
Walking Dead was huge in first seasons. Then started losing viewers fast and by the end barely anyone watched. I think at this point they were losing money. But they didnt stop since it was the only show at AMC that still had any name recognition so they clinged to it. Then had to eventually cancel it since no one was watching at all.
AMC is desperate because they have no new popular shows. Thats why they wont let go TWD franchise and do spinoffs when no one asks them and will not watch.
I dont like some aspects of Last Of Us but I will not go to IMDB site to put small rating. Even if I was registered. And there are lots of people like me who watch and then leave shows silently without putting small marks on ratings sites.
AMC is desperate because they have no new popular shows. Thats why they wont let go TWD franchise and do spinoffs when no one asks them and will not watch.
I dont like some aspects of Last Of Us but I will not go to IMDB site to put small rating. Even if I was registered. And there are lots of people like me who watch and then leave shows silently without putting small marks on ratings sites.
One episode peaking doesn't mean much. If the ratings were steadily inclining with each episode, then you might have a point.
Why does it have 250,000 user ratings on IMDb?
Why is it still a 9.1? if TLOU was tanking... IMDB ratings would 100% represent that.
One episode peaking doesn't mean much. If the ratings were steadily inclining with each episode, then you might have a point.
Black Adam has an impressive 230,000 ratings, and it was a box-office bomb.
Game of Thrones still has a 9.2 despite the later seasons being lack-luster and the final season being notoriously bad. It's the same with The Walking Dead. With that said, we are only on the first season of Last of Us, and it's possible that casual viewers who haven't played the game are holding this show up.
and it's possible that casual viewers who haven't played the game are holding this show up.
The Last of Us ratings have been going up every single episode.
The poor last two seasons do not detract the high quality prior to 6.
Why does Wheel of Time, or Halo, or Foundation have worse ratings on IMDB?
Your link says episode 8 has the highest ratings since episode 4, unless you can find another link that proves otherwise.
Then you might wanna rephrase your statement where you said, "if it was tanking, the IMDb ratings would 100% represent that." Maybe you thought the first 6 seasons were good, but I've seen many people criticizing it since season 5. Based on your logic, it seems to me that a 9/10 is too high for a show that went downhill half-way through and ended terribly
Their scores are in the 7s, which is pretty solid considering online discussions for the former two shows made them sound like the worst things since Uwe Boll movies. I haven't kept up with Foundation and I don't know anything about it, so I can't comment on it either way.
The trajectory is on the upwards. If people were checking out, no way Episode 8 would be the highest viewed.
7.1 in TV on IMDB is not that great dude. It's "decent". The point is that the fans of the source material in all those cases detracted, and voted down.
Can you also tell me why, if "woke = broke" that TV shows such as Euphoria, Sex Education and Heartstopper all did well viewing-wise and in critical reputation?
A 7 is considered "good" on rating sites. This isn't school where 7s or 70s are a C grade and therefore unimpressive. It doesn't look like game fans are tuning in to this show, so the casuals are keeping it up. The game is already cinematic so game fans are less inclined to check the show out. On its own the show is alright, which is great for casuals who generally don't have high standards, whereas the other shows you mentioned were just that bad.
I don't know about those shows so I don't know if they're woke or not. Let's say they are, the good reception can just mean the target audience actually likes them, and if you can give me irrefutable proof of good viewership, that can just mean that the woke audience is finally putting their money where their mouths are. There are entire lists of get-woke go-broke products, these three shows would just be the exceptions if they as woke and successful as you claim. If all those shows are new, then there's still a chance they'll be cancelled in the near future, and the reported success could just be exaggeration. It's not unheard of for networks to boast about their shows before cancelling them.
I'd like to see evidence of this trajectory. It's not unheard of for shows to have high and low points. Some episodes have low viewership, others have high. Various factors can cause this, from people watching it later instead of live, to people skipping certain episodes due to word-of-mouth.
A 7 is considered "good" on rating sites. This isn't school where 7s or 70s are a C grade and therefore unimpressive. It doesn't look like game fans are tuning in to this show, so the casuals are keeping it up. The game is already cinematic so game fans are less inclined to check the show out. On its own the show is alright, which is great for casuals who generally don't have high standards, whereas the other shows you mentioned were just that bad.
Well, it certainly looks like those shows are doing well. How are they woke, though? And are any of them adaptations of something, or are they original content? I meant to talk about this in my last post, but I was nearing the character-limit. If it's original content, then the anti-wokists won't care as much. In fact, the more successful original woke content is, the better for everyone. Wokists can watch their stuff, while everyone else can hopefully get their franchises back. There'd be no need to change established franchises for "modern audiences" if wokists have their own content to watch.
As for Last of Us, the first link only goes up to episode 3, the third link only shows numbers for 1 and 7 without showing numbers for the others, while the second link just talks about the IMDb rating for that episode which isn't really newsworthy at all. And unless I missed something, none of them cited sources for their numbers, so we're taking them at their word.
What evidence do you have that "game fans are not tuning into this show", exactly?
Incidentally, no, 7 to 7.5 on IMDB is just about "decent".
Well, it certainly looks like those shows are doing well. How are they woke, though? And are any of them adaptations of something, or are they original content? I meant to talk about this in my last post, but I was nearing the character-limit. If it's original content, then the anti-wokists won't care as much. In fact, the more successful original woke content is, the better for everyone. Wokists can watch their stuff, while everyone else can hopefully get their franchises back. There'd be no need to change established franchises for "modern audiences" if wokists have their own content to watch.
I don't have any hard evidence that they're watching it or not, but since you claimed source-material fans have down-voted other shows, one can assume that game fans aren't watching this time around, hence the high score. All those detractors you've seen can just as easily watch clips or read articles to stay filled in. A couple of game fans might be taking one for the team so that the rest draw from them when posting their opinions online.
It's "decent" to you. On various rating websites that label their scores, a 7 or 70 is considered "good", while 6s or 60s would be considered "decent". I myself, and plenty of people I've talked to, have rated good movies with a 7.
Going by your descriptions, none of those shows sound woke. Diverse sure, but not woke, the two aren't the same thing.
The Last of Us has actually been very faithful to the source material.
It is not about your own personal rating methodology, but how it scales on IMDB.
Going by your descriptions, none of those shows sound woke. Diverse sure, but not woke, the two aren't the same thing.
To an extent, sure, but inferior in execution, coming from someone who's played the game. The show writers suspiciously chose which major characters to color-swap and which stayed white; the gay guys were given considerably more screen time than in the game, something Druckman admitted he did on purpose to "trick" viewers.
Correct, it's not about my personal methodology, go to MAL or gaming websites and see for yourself. Nothing on IMDb states or suggests that a 7 is "decent".
Woke as I've seen it practiced is using whatever platform you gained to spread your divisive and radical ideas, at the expense of the story and characters as well as your core audience. Whether it's changing established characters, or making new characters only to obsess over superficial traits instead of character development, or injecting trendy and dated hot topics instead of adding to the story and lore, all to push a biased and uninformed narrative.
I never said a 7 is groundbreaking, but it's still above "decent". Anything rated a 7 and above is generally recommended viewing, a 6 and below is at your own risk.
Woke as I've seen it practiced is using whatever platform you gained to spread your divisive and radical ideas, at the expense of the story and characters as well as your core audience. Whether it's changing established characters, or making new characters only to obsess over superficial traits instead of character development, or injecting trendy and dated hot topics instead of adding to the story and lore, all to push a biased and uninformed narrative.
I never said a 7 is groundbreaking, but it's still above "decent". Anything rated a 7 and above is generally recommended viewing, a 6 and below is at your own risk.
If there are people that said that, then those people don't have to watch anything they don't want to. But a show being diverse isn't the same as a show being woke. Those shows you mentioned don't sound woke from your descriptions, but even if they were, then their success would make them exceptions. The Last of Us might turn out to be an exception too. I personally don't care if more woke shows do well as long as they're original content.
The Last of Us tv show certainly has a lot of wokness in it beyond simple diversity, but we'll see how successful it really is when it's done. HBO and the media are hyping it up, but I'd like to see some real numbers when it's done, instead of HBO saying "trust me bro". Netflix boasted about Resident Evil and Cowboy Bebop, only for both of them to be cancelled. Even if viewership turns out to be lower than reported, HBO can still crank out one more season if they're under contract.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on what a 7 means.
If there are people that said that, then those people don't have to watch anything they don't want to. But a show being diverse isn't the same as a show being woke. Those shows you mentioned don't sound woke from your descriptions, but even if they were, then their success would make them exceptions. The Last of Us might turn out to be an exception too. I personally don't care if more woke shows do well as long as they're original content.
The Last of Us tv show certainly has a lot of wokness in it beyond simple diversity, but we'll see how successful it really is when it's done. HBO and the media are hyping it up, but I'd like to see some real numbers when it's done, instead of HBO saying "trust me bro". Netflix boasted about Resident Evil and Cowboy Bebop, only for both of them to be cancelled. Even if viewership turns out to be lower than reported, HBO can still crank out one more season if they're under contract.
Trans themes can be as strong as they want as long as they're not woke. Pro-LGBT is fine as long as its not antagonizing everyone else.
Resident Evil and Cowboy Bebop being panned didn't stop Netflix from boasting about them. Also, Amazon and the media boasted about Rings of Power, and look how that turned out. Once it was done, those same shills admitted it wasn't that great, and Amazon finally had to un-censor negative reviews. The writing and producing staff got a complete over-haul for season 2, which is unprecedented if the first season was so great. And once the nielsen ratings came out, it turned out the views weren't nearly as great as Amazon reported. They weren't CW levels, but they weren't great for the most expensive show ever made.
If Last of Us is the big success they claim it is, then it would be one of the few, if only, exception to the "get woke, go broke" rule. But it's not the norm yet, so it's too early to gloat.
Trans themes can be as strong as they want as long as they're not woke. Pro-LGBT is fine as long as its not antagonizing everyone else.
Resident Evil and Cowboy Bebop being panned didn't stop Netflix from boasting about them. Also, Amazon and the media boasted about Rings of Power, and look how that turned out. Once it was done, those same shills admitted it wasn't that great, and Amazon finally had to un-censor negative reviews. The writing and producing staff got a complete over-haul for season 2, which is unprecedented if the first season was so great. And once the nielsen ratings came out, it turned out the views weren't nearly as great as Amazon reported. They weren't CW levels, but they weren't great for the most expensive show ever made.
If Last of Us is the big success they claim it is, then it would be one of the few, if only, exception to the "get woke, go broke" rule. But it's not the norm yet, so it's too early to gloat.
Not sure how TLOU is "antagonizing" anyone, yet you call that woke.
that has nothing to do with 'woke'. It just had flat-out bad writing, apparently.
All of the shows I referenced to you are regarded as "woke" by conservatives. I feel like you're just trying to rewrite history here.
I mentioned several factors that make something woke, antagonizing was one of them. Selective race-washing and expanding gay screentime for the sake of gayness also count as woke.
Wokeness is a type of bad writing, and yes it was a major reason, if not the number 1 reason that Rings of Power didn't do well. From their treatment of female characters as opposed to male characters, to going against Tolkein's lore by introducing altering the skin color of humans, elves, and dwarves are just a couple of examples of wokeness that hurt the show.
I'm not re-writing anything. I personally haven't seen many rightwingers talk about those shows much, if at all. At best they might have gotten a mention. They're far too busy talking about all the big IPs to even care about the ones you mentioned. If something is going on in the MovieChat boards, then I wouldn't know about that since I don't go there. Just be sure to know the difference between genuine complaints and trolling.
By that logic is The Expanse "woke"? Is HOTD "woke"?
I've seen a lot of critical comments about ROP, and few of them mention anything about race
Because, like you, many right-wingers aren't aware of those shows existence.
Were they changed for ideological reasons? If so, then yes. With that said, viewers are willing to accept varying levels of woke depending how much the show or movie is affected by it. For example, the MCU Spider-Man and HOTD had low levels of wokeness and managed to survive and be successful, while Eternals' and ROP's selling point was wokeness, which hurt them severely. I can't speak for the Expanse though since I haven't seen or kept up with it.
I find it hard to believe that you missed the mentions of race unless you looked in areas that were obscure or left-leaning, or you purposefully ignored them. For someone who apparently keeps up with what rightwingers don't like or wouldn't like based on your understanding of woke, I find it even harder to believe since their criticisms were the most vocal and widespread. Even non-rightwingers brought it up a lot.
Then why claim that they didn't like them in the first place? You've seen a few people complain, but you don't know what the majority actually think. Besides, those few could be trolls for all you know.
if HOTD is now woke to you, then you can add that as another highly successful "woke" TV show
highly 'woke' content like Velma utterly tanks and fails.
But progressive social ethos in TV is the norm now. Meanwhile conservatives have zero relevance in culture whatsover.
And there you go, thanks for proving my point, I'm glad we're on the same page.
If that's true, then highly woke content wouldn't be failing as you yourself said.
Wokeness has become the norm for now thanks to diversity quotas forcing companies to apply it, but the most successful products have kept it minimal to non-existent, and that's not a coincidence. The people you call "conservatives" still make up the bulk of the profits, and companies and shareholders know that, no matter how much they appear to cater to liberals.
Highly "woke" content fails for the same reason bible-thumping and reactionary content fails miserably.
By all means, name me these highly successful socially conservative TV and film.
Left-wingers/liberals/progressives utterly dominate video games, modern music, tv, film, literature. All right-wing/alt-right people do is set up online talk shows and rant about progressive social themes, or satanism.
Now if only they'd admit that instead of double down out of spite. Besides, "conservatives" as you call them don't want to be pandered to, they just want fun and escapism. That's what makes them the largest and most reliable source of income.
Well, I can list a few like Lord of the Rings, Chronicles of Narnia, Home Improvement, Rosanne, but that was never the point. As I said, most people just want to be entertained, not watch highly socially political movies and shows all the time. Sometimes is fine, if it's handled well, but not all the time, and not when it's obnoxious. Hell, most of the major franchises are pretty old, and would be considered "rightwing" back in the day due to how far to the left Hollywood has moved now.
Besides, the "conservatives" and "alt-right" are progressive an open-minded as well, those traits aren't unique to liberals, despite what the latter claims. As I've said before, they're not against progressive values as long as they're not woke. If the wokeness is minimal, then they'll tolerate it.
By the way, I await evidence that 'conservatives' as you describe are the largest bloc here.
almost all prestige TV is socially conscious or thought-provoking
The alt-right online punditry circle complain about the existence of transpeople, yoga and witchcraft.
You still haven't explained Handmaids Tale success.
You described them as conservatives, to me it's anyone that isn't a radical liberal. And look to all the successful movies, shows, and games that weren't overtly leftist in their themes, that should be enough proof to you. If you still think that just having POCs and queers is leftist, then you haven't been paying attention to our discussion.
Ok, and? Clearly they had universal themes that didn't lean one way or the other.
Those are a handful of people, and you yourself admitted they don't represent all non-leftists, so there's no point in mentioning them further. Besides, most "conservatives" aren't as old-school as you seem to think. You'd be surprised how much influence they've had on progressiveness, after all historically they were the ones that fought for equal rights for POCs and women.
Because I don't know enough about it.
but conservative they ain't.
You said: "As I said, most people just want to be entertained, not watch highly socially political movies and shows all the time"
The people I referred to (and there are more in that punditry chamber) have a pretty big influence on modern conservative thought.
Then we both agree we shouldn't use the blanket term "conservative" to describe every person that doesn't support radical leftist views.
And I stand by that. Not everything is "prestige, socially conscious or thought-provoking" Most things are just basic Die Hard-tier action shit.
Nice summary for that show, but I haven't watched it or looked into it. So I can't comment on it.
Yet the notion that TLOU is "radical leftist" is preposterous.
Sure. But most of the critically acclaimed content is thought-provoking, political in some sense. Especially in TV.
You had not heard these shows. Have you considered that you just might not be that aware of many successful modern TV shows?
Do you deny that they selectively race-washed certain characters, and that Druckman himself admitted he tricked viewers with episode 3?
I've heard of them, I just haven't watched them. And so far your descriptions of them don't sound woke, not like Rings of Power-level woke anyway.
His words, he stated people wouldn't have watched it if it was publicly known ahead of time, so he tricked them into watching an episode largely detached from the main plot with old gay dudes. That, along with the selective race-washing, the "communism is just a commune" thing, and Ellie being less reliant on panic attack-suffering Joel, all are what what brought it down for the game fans.
Those shows don't sound progressive the way you described them, and I have enough hobbies and adult responsibilities to have to keep up with every single little thing that comes out. Diversity quotas force most products to have some wokeness in order to appear "progressive", or the leftist version of it, but all the most successful products kept it minimal because they know deep down it's not profitable.
His words, he stated people wouldn't have watched it if it was publicly known ahead of time, so he tricked them into watching an episode largely detached from the main plot with old gay dudes.
That, along with the selective race-washing, the "communism is just a commune" thing, and Ellie being less reliant on panic attack-suffering Joel, all are what what brought it down for the game fans.
Those shows don't sound progressive the way you described them, and I have enough hobbies and adult responsibilities to have to keep up with every single little thing that comes out. Diversity quotas force most products to have some wokeness in order to appear "progressive", or the leftist version of it, but all the most successful products kept it minimal because they know deep down it's not profitable.
Minor characters being race-flipped is woke?
you've clearly never heard of anarcho-communism.
you should probably not make declarative statements if you're unaware.
Translation he debunked your nonsense and you know if you delve deeper you will get educated. Get off this board you are seriously a joke.
shareMinor or not, if it's only only the good guys and not the bad guys too, and on top of the other stuff I mentioned, then yeah, it's woke. If you still don't seem to understand what woke is, I'd suggest watching this video from Critical Drinker to get a better idea.
Oh I've heard of it, and other forms of communism, whether I like to or not. Hollywood elites have been vocally supportive of communism and socialism, and recently Ant Man 3 had a line about socialism using literal ants. This isn't an isolated thing, and therefore it's worth bringing up.
Well yeah, I don't make declarative statements for shows I don't watch, shows that, based on your description, either don't meet the "woke" criteria, or have minimal wokeness that don't negatively affect them all that much.
People said the Walking Dead got bad after a while, and I myself stopped watching partway through season 7, so I wouldn't use that as a defense. You say The Expanse did it, but I'd have to see how it was executed because throughout this discussion you've demonstrated a lack of understanding of woke, and given me descriptions that don't sound woke. For example, The Matrix had a diverse group of good guys and only white bad guys, but there was no agenda behind it, so it's not considered woke.
You can be pro-communist and still run financially successful businesses. Historically, the people who preach it don't always practice it, they're like con-artists. I haven't watched any MCU movies in the theaters since Endgame other than Spider-Man, and I haven't seen any DC movies since Man of Steel. But as a geek, I grew up on "capeshit" as well as sci-fi and fantasy shit, before it was mainstream.
Whether I know about them or not, you haven't given me reason to believe that they're woke. You haven't proven that the "get woke, go broke" rule has been broken at all. You've described shows that have diverse and progressive themes, and claimed some people have complained about them, but that's it.
People said the Walking Dead got bad after a while, and I myself stopped watching partway through season 7, so I wouldn't use that as a defense. You say The Expanse did it, but I'd have to see how it was executed because throughout this discussion you've demonstrated a lack of understanding of woke, and given me descriptions that don't sound woke. For example, The Matrix had a diverse group of good guys and only white bad guys, but there was no agenda behind it, so it's not considered woke.
You can be pro-communist and still run financially successful businesses. Historically, the people who preach it don't always practice it, they're like con-artists. I haven't watched any MCU movies in the theaters since Endgame other than Spider-Man, and I haven't seen any DC movies since Man of Steel. But as a geek, I grew up on "capeshit" as well as sci-fi and fantasy shit, before it was mainstream.
Whether I know about them or not, you haven't given me reason to believe that they're woke. You haven't proven that the "get woke, go broke" rule has been broken at all. You've described shows that have diverse and progressive themes, and claimed some people have complained about them, but that's it.
You simply said that if a TV show raceswaps only good characters, and never bad characters then it doesn't matter how big or small they were - that makes it "woke".
if a throwaway line is apparently enough to make you accuse a show of being woke then goodness me, all of the shows I've referenced qualify. The idea that TLOU is "far-left" is comical, because if it is, then tons of shows are.
I said that aspect would be woke, yes. But if that's the only criteria that was met, then it's not enough to call the show or movie as a whole "woke". The Thor movies had black norse gods despite being based on white mythology, the recent Spider-Man had a black MJ which follows a trend of black-washing red-heads, and HOTD had black valyrians despite the books specifically pointing out their light skin. Those specific aspects can be considered woke and should be mentioned, but since they don't meet all of the criteria, and didn't significantly detract from the show or movie, they're not considered successful woke products.
I never said one throw-away line is enough to make the whole show or movie woke. I listed several criteria that make something woke, and listed a couple of movies that met most if not all of those criteria. The more criteria they meet, the more they qualify as "highly-woke" content as you called it earlier, content that even you admitted is prone to failure. The Last of Us might indeed be an exception, and I'm prepared to eat crow if it is. But studios have boasted about their shows before they turned out to be failures, so I'll wait until it's done and official numbers come out before we discuss victory or failure.
Also, note these shows:
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3487356/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4288182/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9827854/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10574236/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4635276/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2262532/
Look them up, and they've all done a lot of 'woke' commentary