Whats wrong with romance? - Moana (2016) Discussion

[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Instead of gender wars, how about just having movies about people? Not everyone needs a mate, but everyone needs others in their lives. Why not have films that do not center around romance? Some women are strong. From what I hear, some of Moana's spirit and bravery are based in history and tradition.

If you had chosen movies other than Twilight and 50 Shades, it would have been better. I've not seen 50 Shades and have no intention of ever seeing it. What I know of the story does not interest me in the least and, from what I've heard, one person in that film would have been submissive - I'm guessing this is the female? Bella, in Twilight is also submissive. I realize that some people confuse submissive behavior for femininity. It isn't.

For my part, I'm fine with some stories not having romance, especially stories that are aimed at children. I've noticed that these types of complaints, about the lack of romance in kids' movies, only happen when the main character is female. No complaints when the story is about a male. That's sexism. Let's just focus on the story, shall we? Not every story is a romance. And girls can have heroic stories themselves.

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[–] Shychick52 8 years ago

You lost all credibility the second you tried to use Twatlight and 50 Shades of Crap as examples of true romance. GTFO of here, loser.

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[–] Block-Busted 8 years ago

More like "50 Shades of Dogsh!t", as Jeremy Jahns describes it. 

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[–] Netsco 8 years ago

What...
there's nothing wrong with romance. Some people/characters just don't require it to fulfill themselves.

I believe there is another world waiting for us, Sixsmith.

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[–] sul-uddin96 8 years ago

Romantic subplots are kinda dead in mainstream films... at least IMO.

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[–] Dave_Robicheaux 8 years ago

Ironman movies barely turn about Pepper Potts and Tony Stark romance, but you're right the sexual abstinence raised gen doesn't like it.

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[–] RubyHypatia 8 years ago

Not every story has to have a romance.

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[–] christopherspb 8 years ago

Damn straight.

There's rally only so much you can do with a damsel in distress. and Disney did it, like 12 times, milked it dry, and now is running away from the formula, with much less damsel females, tangled brave and now moana have more control and opinions that actually matter.

As a father of daughters, freaking excellent.

Stupid comments will be ignored. Good luck!

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[–] RubyHypatia 8 years ago

The damsel in distress trope was harmful to girls, anyway. An occasional damsel in distress is fine, but constantly portraying females as helpless is wrong.

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[–] Carycomic 8 years ago

Even Disney's writers are starting to make fun of the Old School trope! Look at the self-referential lines like Maui's: "If you start singing, I'm going to throw up."

That and "If you have an animal sidekick, you're a princess."

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[–] super-staff 8 years ago

tangled brave and now moana have more control and opinions that actually matter.

You just nullified your own argument by bringing up Tangled which actually had Rapunzel in a romance with Flynn (one of the best Disney's done, in my opinion).

Also, romance isn't inherently harmful or bad, especially not to young girls. Sometimes it isn't necessary and can be shoehorned in, though well written and compelling romances can help build character, add some drama, and teach lessons in keeping healthy relationships. It irks me to see people paint all romance (particularly in female led films) as harmful and/or stupid.

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[–] RubyHypatia 8 years ago

It irks me to see people paint all romance (particularly in female led films) as harmful and/or stupid.

Who is doing that?

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[–] super-staff 8 years ago

I've seen it around online. There were a couple of articles proclaiming that movies like Frozen and Tangled were 'harmful' for promoting romances and how that weakened the heroines, while Moana was superior because the lack of romance made her a better character/role model.

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[–] UnvoicedApollo1 8 years ago

Links or it didn't happen.

I do think Moana is a better movie with the better role model, but I don't think it's better simply superior because of a lack of romance (though I do think that element helps the movie in its own right).

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[–] RubyHypatia 8 years ago

I've seen it around online. There were a couple of articles proclaiming that movies like Frozen and Tangled were 'harmful' for promoting romances and how that weakened the heroines, while Moana was superior because the lack of romance made her a better character/role model.

Citations please.

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[–] Dave_Robicheaux 8 years ago

12 times... in 80 years! On the same gap of time we will surely gone to watch 1200 MCU movies without bargaining from them, double standard, IMO.

However, I like the new badass formula with good ingredients from Ghibli & Euro independent animation, like Nausicaä & Persepolis in the same seashell.

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Not having a mate is not badass
and Persepolis had quite a bit of romance. Many Giblis do too

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[–] marclev78 8 years ago

I'm struggling not to read this as "I'm not a chauvinist, but..."

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[–] magnusplin 8 years ago

Twilight and 50 shades of grey are perfect.

Obvious troll is obvious.

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[–] jabell 8 years ago

The Jungle Book (cartoon) came to mind, as Mowgli follows a girl to the village. Maybe we could have seen Moana dancing with a young man at the festival, or maybe him standing beside (and slightly behind) her on the ship. Something subtle would have been nice.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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[–] UnvoicedApollo1 8 years ago

No. Just, no.

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

Why? How would that have added anything to the story?

With the Jungle Book (the original cartoon), Mowgli following the girl into the village made sense because he finally realised that he needed, or even wanted, to be with his own people instead of living in the jungle.

With Moana, giving her a token love interest makes little sense, it adds nothing to the overall story. All it does is satisfy the few audience members that believe that she's a young woman so therefore she needs a man in her life.

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[–] jabell 8 years ago

It shows she's a normal young woman. And we're talking about the future, not right now.

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Why does she have to be "normal"? Why can't the story just focus on now and her journey?

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Why can't the story just focus on now and her journey?

Why can't she have it all?

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Because then she'd have to have a family and a powerful career, be a genius in the arts, a philosopher/sage, a master magician, have wings, eight arms, and three heads.

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Like every other ruler ever

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

How would that have added anything to the story?

It would have added romance to the story.
Fact

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

I fear we may end up going round in circles here, but never mind, here we go:

Why is it so important that a story about a young woman absolutely MUST have a romantic element?

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[–] jabell 8 years ago

Because the audience wants it. That's one reason I never cared to see Brave. As William Shakespeare said in The Tempest, "Trip no further, pretty sweeting. Journeys end in lovers meeting."

Boo Hoo! Let me wipe away the tears with my PLASTIC hand!--Lindsey McDonald (Angel)

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

"Trip no further, pretty sweeting. Journeys end in lovers meeting."



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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

What audience demands it?

Is this the same audience that demands that male leads must always get into a fight, have a car chase or set off a big explosion?

Incidentally you're missing out, Brave is a great film!

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Aladdin didn't have car chases

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Bobster:

Is this the same audience that demands that male leads must always get into a fight, have a car chase or set off a big explosion?

Carrot:

Aladdin didn't have car chases

Please note the use of "or" in the statement: "x, y, or z". It means that if any of them are present, the claim is then valid. If Bobster had used "and" instead, then your response would have made slighly more sense.

Since it is a general statement anyway, bringing up an exception doesn't negate Bob's claim.

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

Yes, and?

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Why is it so important that a story about a young woman absolutely must NOT have a romantic element?

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

You subverted my original question, is that because you don't have a good answer for it?

Nothing wrong with a bit of romance, as long as it is pertinent to the overall story. In this film it isn't, Moana's adventure with Maui is sufficient plot for a good film.

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[–] RubyHypatia 8 years ago

Why is it so important that a story about a young woman absolutely must NOT have a romantic element?

No one has said that.

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[–] amandaef2000-917-397520 8 years ago

I am going to be blunt with you. I think women must accept the reality that a lot of men may not be good partners. While older women messed thing up for younger women by being manipulative that does not get rid of the fact men have been damaged for awhile. A young woman has to accept men and some of her fellow women are damaged. I know you replied in the past to my comment that women must accept reality by saying lava monsters and gaint crabs are not reality. The lava monster just symbolizes nature and the sea is so big that it is not hard to believe that in the past there use to be huge creatures in it.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

There's a bit of a double standard at play. Those who demand it if the main character is a female hardly miss it when the main character is a male.

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[–] Carycomic 8 years ago

Actually, it's rarely proven popular--or profitable--to have a male lead character doing the soul-searching singing in a Disney flick. To put it more bluntly? For every ALADDIN, you have an EMPEROR'S NEW GROOVE.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

Can you name other examples? There are most likely other reasons The Emperors New Groove wasn't as popular as Aladdin.

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[–] UnvoicedApollo1 8 years ago

Hunchback, Hercules, & Tarzan* come to mind as movies with the male leads singing a soul searching song but as you mention there are other factors as to why they're less popular.

*Actually Phil Collins just sings over the animation.

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[–] stelamon 8 years ago

I love Hunchback- just beautiful all around but not generally for the youngest kids.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

I love Hunchback- just beautiful all around but not generally for the youngest kids.

Hugo is quite dark. I'm amazed they were able to adapt it for young audiences.

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[–] Carycomic 8 years ago

@OhNooos: The main reason for its flopping at the box office would no doubt be David Spade. I feel no empathy for _any_ character he's ever played on film. And I'm afraid the same goes for the guy who voiced the jazz-loving prince in "The Frog Princess."

Never have I felt like the heroine in a Disney flick deserved better!

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[–] cslaraia4 8 years ago

some people do need romance in their life to be complete, some don't. there's no one way that all women are or all men are. there's just who you are and what you want.

who's to say moana or force awakens are anti-romance? these movies never say these characters don't want or need love. pretend these are real people. maybe they don't end up with anybody! or for all we know, moana or rey could fall in love at some point in their lives. but that's not the most interesting or important thing they do with their life. not everybody has a 50 shades of grey love story. maybe these girls have happy but normal romances, and their time saving the sea or the galaxy makes a much better story. women should do many different things in movies because women do many different things in life!

women are powerful whether they are in love or going on an adventure, both are good <3

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

Thank you. Very well put!

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