Is it so bad if female centered movies have romance? - Moana (2016) Discussion

[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

I'm missing your point. It sounds like you want a different story than the one offered.

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[–] desertgaara1995 8 years ago

The point is that some people treat it like a huge success that this film has no romance, because apparently romance is antifeminist.

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[–] OhNooos 8 years ago

I don't think that's quite it. It's more that it's nice to see a break from the typical story that depends on a female falling in love and being rescued by a prince. This is a different story - an adventure tale that just centers on the protagonist. And, as you pointed out, there are other stories that aren't romance either that are also very interesting.

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[–] mussobrennon 8 years ago

When was the last one of those movies?

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

I’m only going to address Disney films since most people I know who are excited about Moana not having a love interested are specifically talking about Disney princess films. I don’t think Alice is a good example because she’s not in the princess lineup. The official princess lineup consists of Snow White, Aurora, Jasmine, Cinderella, Tiana, Ariel, Belle, Merida, Mulan, Pocahontas, and Rapunzel. Anna and Elsa are their own brand.

I liked that Moana didn’t have a love interest because it’s refreshing. Some people love the traditional Disney romance, but for me, it’s paseé at this point. I wanted to see if Disney would dare to have a “princess” film that didn’t speak of marriage and romance and they did – and did it well.

A lot of my appreciation for lack of love interest is related to the way Disney non-dads are portrayed. I’ve always felt that unrelated men are not there just for romance, but Disney princess films generally portray them as such. They can be mentors, inspirations, and teachers, too. I love that Maui and Moana formed a wonderful niece/uncle like bond causing each of them to walk (sail? fly?) away as better individuals. And, in the case of Moana, probably made her an even more efficient chieftess. Disney romance always makes the princess and princesses happy, but it doesn’t make them grow as people. Dropping a romantic plot clearly gave Disney more time to develop both a male and female character as individuals, not as a couple, which is always appreciated. Maui is the first Disney man to have some depth and range. That sad tattoo story, tho. 😢

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

It's not refreshing
Brave also didn't have a romantic interest. I'd hardly call Mulan a romantic story either
It's a fake marketing gimmick to get money from feminist women. That's literally it
And they're too unaware to notice that Disney used the identical same marketing of being an action princess who relies on no man gimmick for Brave and Mulan and Frozen! SAD
Malificent and Alice looking glass also had the same exact message
Farce Awakens had the same marketing too

I still like Moana though, because it wasn't insulting to the viewers. Plus she totally likes Maui

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[–] The_Ginger_Man 8 years ago

Gigantic won't have a main character couple either... So the two main leads haven't been the romance since Tangled (ie. 2010), and the progs in media are still calling stuff like Moana "refreshing"... I'm betting Frozen 2 won't raise Kristoff over Elsa in importance to the plot (and Elsa won't get some lover that's more important than Anna), and can't really see them making Ralph have a romance be a major part of WIR2.

Which means, romance will likely be at best a minor part of the movies till the end of the decade at the very least for WDAS.

Might be Pixar will pick up the slack there? Toy Story 4 plot details could point towards that?

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

Half of the Brave plot centers around Merida’s impending marriage. So even if there was no actual romance, it still has a theme of a girl finding a spouse. Mulan was eyeing what's his face for almost the entire movie. Also, the question was why some people like the idea that Moana had no love interest. I stated my reasons. If it’s not refreshing for you, then that’s fine. But your opinion is not absolute.

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Half of the Brave plot centers around Merida’s impending marriage.

and the theme is her defying it it. aka an Anti-Traditionalist
/don't need no man/ theme

Mulan was eyeing what's his face for almost the entire movie.

He thought she was a man though, so no romance
one or two comedy gags of her making a 'he's hot' facial expression isn't romance

Also, the question was why some people like the idea that Moana had no love interest. I stated my reasons. If it’s not refreshing for you, then that’s fine. But your opinion is not absolute.

My opinion IS absolute. You are simply brain washed into thinking that the same thing over and over again is progressive.
I agree that Moana had MANY progressive new fresh things, but just that romance wasn't one of those new fresh things. lol

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[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

Half of the Brave plot centers around Merida’s impending marriage. So even if there was no actual romance, it still has a theme of a girl finding a spouse.

Well, no, not really. It's quite the opposite. Half of the plot centers around her family wanting to find her a match and her refusing it, and ending up winning the argument. If anything, the "theme" is a girl not needing a spouse to be fulfilled.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

I have the Brave DVD and soundtrack because it is one of my favorite princess films. BUT I'm not letting the film off the hook because marriage is still a theme and the main catalyst for the entire film even if she ends up getting out of the arrangement. Disney seemed unwilling to portray a princess who isn't dealing with any potential romantic/marital relationships, be they arranged or otherwise, until Moana. So, yes, that is one reason she is so refreshing. I low-key believe that Mulan and Merida were tests to see how well they could do without the 100% traditional prince/princess relationships. When Moana came around, they decided to just go for it. I think they did a great job.

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[–] The_Ginger_Man 8 years ago

I noticed your use of the word "refreshing" to describe Moana having zero romantic storyline.

Please don't think I'm jumping down your neck for that (you're certainly not the only one to use it!), but I have to chuckle a bit at the cliche.

"Refreshing" is how every princess since the Walt era has been described for various reasons, with the implication that this newest one is so much more feminist and empowered than the ones before her.

First it was being pro-active, then it was being "cerebral" (Belle reading books), then it was being adult/sexy (Esmeralda, Megara), then it was being an action girl who didn't like to wear dresses (though Mulan actually had no problem with them), etc etc. Now we seem to be stuck in the "independent, need no man" cycle, with a sprinkling of both "she's not white" & "she's got thick build" for Moana specifically. And "refreshing" or similar terms used constantly, with the implication "she's not like the silly / offensive princesses of the past" (I am not saying you think that, more like the prog media in their insipid articles, , the voice actresses themselves, the WDAS writers and directors, and the various SJW bloggers etc).

I wonder what the next "refreshing" thing is? Or will they keep insisting that every princess is always more "independent" than the one before her...

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

Even if you were "jumping down my throat", I wouldn't care. This is a message board talking about a Disney princess movie. How seriously can I actually take anyone here??

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

You don't think Aladdin has depth? That's depressing.

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

I just remember him pining and whining over Jasmine for 70% of the movie. Basically, his attraction to a girl was the main motivator for the entire film. I wouldn't say that's depth because he showed frustration and sadness because h's in love with her. It's basically like the male version of Ariel who is one of the most annoying and superficial princesses ever.

ETA: Someone else's point of Flynn having a backstory (that I can't remember, honestly) and some non-romantic motivation is probably a better example. I just remember him as being annoying and in love with Rapunzel, but I'll take people at their word because I have no interest in watching the film again.

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

I get what you're saying. The reason I say Aladdin has depth is because of the One Jump Ahead (Reprise). "Riff, raff. Street rat. I don't buy that. If only they'd look closer... Would they see a poor boy? No siree. They'd find out there's so much more to me." It's always stuck with me, but I completely get where you're coming from now.

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

Or Flynn Rider for god's sake? He's pretty deep. Or the Beast?
Saying Maui is the only Disney man with depth is pretty ignorant.

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

The Beast wasn't a man for most of his movie. The whole point was for him to go back to being human. Flynn was forgettable to me. I felt nothing for him, but I can see how some people would think he has depth.

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

The Beast is a cursed MAN. He is a man. The whole movie. He isn't in human form, because of the curse, but he is indeed a cursed man. And whether you liked Flynn or not isn't the question. He had a story. He had explainations as to why he was the way he was. He has depth. I don't mean to sound rude by any means, and I got way more offended than I should have, but I just feel like there are tons of Disney men that do have depth, but the ones like Prince Eric and Prince Charming (from either Cinderella or Snow White) make them look bad. Lol

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

It’s matter of perspective. For me, Beast is much more animal than man until the end. He doesn't come across as a temperamental human with animal qualities, though I’m sure he started out that way and became more animalistic as time passed because of his situation.

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

Yeah, I understand that. I just have always considered him a man because otherwise Belle falls in love with an animal and then the movie is just weird. Lol

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[–] Herengone 8 years ago

I'm oddly okay with that. Probably because she started loving him after he made effort to act more human.

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[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

Saying Maui is the only Disney man with depth is pretty ignorant.

Ignorant of what? Just because he/she has a different perspective than yours about what constitutes depth in a character doesn't mean they're ignorant.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

I'm not saying it's ignorant because I don't agree with it? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I gave mine. I thought that it was ignorant to say he was the only one in the entire Disney universe to habe depth. I gave examples of people who I thought also had depth. That's what these message boards are about - discussing. Sorry if I said it the wrong way initially, but now I'm being attacked for no reason? Like we both talked and gave our own opinions and that's that?

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[–] sydneyrauksel 8 years ago

And I didn't say she/he is ignorant. I said the statement was ignorant.

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[–] amandaef2000-917-397520 8 years ago

Nothing wrong with romance. I have no issue with that. I like that Moana and Maui did not have a romance and he was a uncle figure. I also like that symbolically the two have represent early humans surviving in the world. Nick and Judy in Zootopia may become a couple but I am glad their relationship is not worldly/ sexual lust. I think now days the princess being rescued by the prince is just something this generation can not relate to. I also think romance would have not gone good with this movie Moana. Fanfic seem to write that Maona will have an arrange marriage and her a Maui's relationship is a uncle and niece relationship.

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[–] kevin-ggp3 8 years ago

This is such a click bait thread. You don't think the single lady lead is refresing. Other people do... Surprise people have different opinion ?

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[–] carrot_handvo 8 years ago

Because that's nearly all Liberal Hollywood does now
It's not refreshing. It's a Marketing Gimmick

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

It's not all Hollywood does these days. There are always a string of traditional romantic comedy type films that come out every year, which a lot of people like. That's not likely to change any time soon.

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[–] Ithilfaen 8 years ago

I have noticed that people (mainly feminists/SJWs)

Ugh I'm so tired of people using "feminists" as some kind of synonym for lunatics and "SJW", whatever the *beep* it means (it's an acronym and acronyms don't need "s" to be plural) for anyone who disagrees with them.

Most people actually want to find love I believe....

And what's your point? Just because most people hope they find love (most don't "want to find love" like actively look for it), doesn't mean that's all they do all the time and that everything they do is about that.

Contrary to the popular belief there are actually other kids' movies with no love interest for the female heroine: Brave, Spirited Away, Alice in Wonderland, The wizard of Oz. It's not exactly groundbreaking to have a kids movie with no romance.

Out of the 4 examples you use (that's not exactly a majority of kids movies, is it?), 2 were made over 50 years ago and one is an anime, which most people would disagree is "for kids".

The issue most people have is that Disney is actively selling romance to young girls, as if that was the only thing they should be interested in. It's fine for older girls, I guess (especially those raised on Disney crap like you) but it's good to show young girls that there is a life for them that's not exclusively about finding the "perfect" man (first of all because Prince Charming doesn't exist) and settle down everafter.

If that's what you're looking for, there are lots of movies made for women like you. Enjoy.

For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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[–] graftonnightclub 8 years ago

I come from a family of very stable relationships, and there is no reason to believe my 8 yr old girl wont find love and so why not let her enjoy watching romance films? If somehow she is brainwashed into thinking this is the most important thing in life, then its not a bad thing to me. Autism rates are through the roof and most likely to do with older parents having kids. Is being a high flying manager or seeing the world as important as not passing on DNA mutations? Should we glamorize being a single parent and being unlucky in love? What a disadvantage to have separated parents.

I suspect it makes no difference anyway. Little girls will gravitate towards their natural urges no matter what we place in front of them to try and mold them. These things come into fashion and out of fashion.

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[–] SuperBobster 8 years ago

The argument being put forward is not that romance in films is bad, the argument is that films with a female role model protagonist should be about more than just finding love. There's nothing wrong with romance, but there's nothing wrong with having other life goals as well. A woman might have a goal in life to be a doctor, an athlete, a politician etc, and if she finds love along the way then that's great, but it's not ALL about romance.

And as for your comments about autism, I don't even know if that is scientifically accurate. But are you seriously putting forward the argument that women should forsake all their other life ambitions, find love early, marry early, have kids early, JUST to reduce the chances of their children having autism? And would you suggest that men do the same?

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[–] C-Younkin 8 years ago

I think what they mean is that Disney is now offering up female characters who want to have adventures of their own and not just be known for being a love interest.

Trying to create a channel based on interpreting, reviewing, and even giving you something to laugh about film. Hope you enjoy what you see. Thanks in advance.

Review of the film here-https://youtu.be/02C0X1yPBF8

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[–] submachine 8 years ago

Fathers, who have kids that wanna see Moana, don't want to see romance either, ever think about that?

http://TheMovieGoer.com

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[–] IanDSmith 8 years ago

Disney princess movies have always revolved around romances. Is it so bad if once in awhile they don't? The fact that Brave is the only other Disney princess film in 80 years not to have the lead fall in love tells you the deck has been very stacked in favor of messages to young girls that it's a key plot point in their lives to find a handsome love interest. There are other stories to tell and I really don't think a lack of romance is something to complain about yet. Maybe if it stays that way for the next eight decades.

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