Taylor is screwed - American Crime (2015) Discussion

[–] j_grae 9 years ago

In a perfect world, wherever Taylor got jumped the adjacent building would have camera footage of the guys beating on him. The school would have an exterior camera that showed Wes grab him by the collar.
There is evidence of his mother going to school for help because Taylor is getting bullied. The school will be held accountable especially the coach.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

She didn't go to the school because he was bullied and there is no evidence or reports that he was being bullied before she went there. Everybody knows about what happened, so what the boys did would have been seen as retaliation (although still not a good thing) for what is now locally known as his lies since the way the case was closed makes it appear he made a false claim.

My empire of doom begins now!!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Taylor has admitted or implied several times that it was a false claim.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

I feel like that too, and from the previews it appears as if he tells Evy he has lied about a lot of things, so I'm guessing we will find out soon what's true and what's a lie.

My empire of doom begins now!!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Or maybe they'll just leave us hanging with a lot of questions unanswered. It seems like that kind of show.

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

We actually don't know where exactly the basetball team caught up with Taylor. At the end of one episode, they appeared to be chasing him away from the buildings, away from the cameras (maybe they planned for the possibility of security cameras?). The next time we see him, in the next episode, it's clear they beat him up.

If there was an exterior camera at the school, it seems Wes would have had his back to it when he accosted Taylor, so you wouldn't be able to see what Wes was saying (security cameras usually lack audio) or doing to Taylor.

There are three things that definitely don't play well for Taylor -- the fact that he had a stolen handgun on his person, he went to a school he no longer attended, and the list of names in the notebook he left behind (he admitted to Ann that those were people he intended to hurt).

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[–] TylerFX 9 years ago

His only hope is Sebastian finding something online that will work in his favor. Or possibly a witness coming forward on his behalf.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

Regardless of what Sebastian finds or what witness comes forward it should be impossible for him to avoid a murder charge because the list and waiting for Leslie for an hour shows premeditation, he's going to jail for a long time. Now it's just a matter of how long. If they can prove the drugs are what caused him to do something he otherwise did not intend to do and he was under duress from Wes threatening to kill him, then at least it will be voluntary manslaughter, which is still like 10-30 years so he could get out before he's 30 or before he is 50. Doesn't Indiana have the death penalty?

My empire of doom begins now!!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

You're right -- all signs point towards premeditation -- that doesn't play well for Taylor. Like you said, he waited for Leslie for an hour and the secretary witnessed some oddball behavior, plus he was packing a stolen handgun, he had a notebook with a list of names in it (and he admitted to Ann that this was, in fact, a list of people he wanted to hurt), and he was at a school he no longer attended (and it didn't seem like he was there to pick up any records or something along those lines -- the secretary would have been able to help him out with that). He's going away for a long time. When his mom came to visit him in jail, though, he seemed like he was in a good place with that and had accepted it. He won't get the death penalty because he is still 17. Even if he was 18, he still wouldn't get the death penalty because of the possible element of aggrevation.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

When his mom came to visit him in jail, though, he seemed like he was in a good place with that and had accepted it

I would imagine he's feeling like that because he's isolated right now, wait until he get in "real" prison.

My empire of doom begins now!!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Maybe the twist is that Taylor is going to be high up on the food chain when gets to real prison, and he's going to be the shower rapist. Don't drop the soap!

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[–] sluggr-2 9 years ago

They should be able to establish that he stole the handgun before taking the drugs. Once he took the gun intent was pretty clear.

I think my percentage of Chimp DNA is higher than others. Cleaver Greene

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[–] TylerFX 9 years ago

Actually, his original intention in taking the gun was to kill himself. He decided against that though. I can't remember if he wrote the names down before or after taking the drugs though.

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[–] mark-1589 9 years ago

I believe it was after, but he would not be able to establish that (apart from his own word, which would clearly be taken with a grain of salt in a trial).

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[–] SoapWatch 9 years ago

Actually, his original intention in taking the gun was to kill himself. He decided against that though.

One doesn't steal a handful of bullets to kill their self.

Taylor never contemplated suicide so not sure where you got that from.

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[–] TylerFX 9 years ago

I didn't mean he'd get off completely. I just meant that might be his only hope of not getting life in prison or the death penalty. If he is seventeen, he will likely be charged as an adult. The lawyer did say the state gave a steep sentence to a twelve year old who was convicted of a lesser crime than what Taylor is charged with. He is definitely going to jail, no question on that. Maybe he will end up getting life with the possibility of parole after twenty five years.

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[–] leslieinthehouse 9 years ago

There was a school shooting outside of Jonesboro, Arkansas several years ago where two boys (I think ages 11 & 12) pulled a fire alarm and then started shooting kids as they ran out of the school using Grandpa's gun. 4 girls and a female teacher were shot and killed. Because of the boys' ages, they were sentenced to a Juvenile Facility until they were 18 and released. I think one is already in trouble again.

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[–] iluvthadrama 9 years ago

Yes, but proving he was raped and beaten could work in his defense for his state of mind. Also, he was leaving but that boy Wes antagonized him and suffered the consequences unfortunately. No one is innocent.

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[–] Clemencedane 9 years ago

Wes didn't just antagonize him - he grabbed him and started shaking him and yelling that he would kill him.

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Well, he wasn't beating him...that time at least.I would have just scared him with the gun. Still no excuse to shoot someone.

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[–] DJFirth 9 years ago

That's something that only the audience saw, no witnesses. Self-defense would work if he picked up a rock and hit Wes, but he had a gun and the list. A jury or a district attorney would expect that it was just a self-serving lie by Taylor.

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[–] Clemencedane 9 years ago

It happened due to PTSD. Taylor wasn't even consciously aware that he had shot Wes until he looked down and saw the blood. He was in a different world, hallucinating, and the guy who had beat the crap out of him grabbed him and before he knew it he had fired. A good lawyer could make a case for that. The only problem is Taylor isn't willing to assist in his own defense and there's no one else who can put the whole story together.

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[–] DJFirth 9 years ago

But again, we were the only one's who saw how Taylor reacted. A good lawyer would bring that forward as a theory, but there would be no proof. A jury would be skeptical. Frankly I find the scenario a little outlandish. Boy gets humiliated. Boy gets beaten up. Steals gun. Makes a list. Waits for person on the list. Changed his mind and then one of the boys on the list just happens to come by and threaten him. Gun goes off killing one of the boys on the list.

As a juror I would be skeptical. There is too much reason to think the last part was made up to avoid a murder charge.

So many people are assuming that the DA knows everything we know. Abd that the jury will know it too.

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Even if they they were to believe he was hallucinating, it doesn't really help that much. He made the choice to buy drugs instead of going toothed hospital and police. He made the conscious choice to take the gun and to then overdo it with drugs.He went somewhere he had no business being with intent to kill four people. After that it can not be proven that he even changed his mind. For all they know he got tired of waiting and decided to find someone else to ice.He has a history of lying so what is his worth?

In the end he needs to look to his mother for playing a part in his downfall as well. She disregarded his wishs,outed hi. In front of evy therefore it led to her agreeing to the settlement that would hush her words. Her parenting the case after promising she would not led to the basketball team beating him up.

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[–] kkkuy 9 years ago

I think Taylor was gang raped by the boys who beat him up in the recent episode , he's kinda consensual with Eric , but after Eric's left ,the others boys attacked him(they used condoms so only Eric's DNA was found), and he's too shameful to tell his mom and police the truth, and Sebastian would do some dig job and find the full clip , after he's busted by cops ( it's so apparent he will get arrested ), the truth would be revealed and Taylor would be free

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Even if it turns out that Wes did rape Taylor, they're not going to free Taylor. All evidence points to premeditated murder, and that's not playing well for Taylor. Of course, if and when they find out what Wes did do to Taylor, they might be able to reduce the charges and/or sentencing.

I fear for Sebastian. He's totally going to get caught. His obsession with Taylor's case also seems a bit off...like he's mentally ill or something.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

Of course, if and when they find out what Wes did do to Taylor, they might be able to reduce the charges and/or sentencing.

Even if they could prove it, it doesn't necessarily work for Taylor because he has maintained that only Eric raped him so him going after Wes for a rape he never accused Wes of committing makes no sense.

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Very true! Unless, of course, they can prove that Taylor actually had no memory of the incident because he was drugged by Wes or something...That would be a twist worthy of this show!

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

If he had no memory how can his defense justify him targeting Wes? The only thing he can use to defend himself against Wes is the beating and that's only if the others involved cooperate. He can't say I shot Wes because Eric raped me and I don't remember whether Wes was there or not. He never showed any interest in Wes until after he was beaten by Wes and the others and apparently Wes stuck out in his head, and from what Wes said to him we can assume Wes made himself more memorable by vocalizing his disdain for Taylor while beating him.

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Again, very true! As I said in the OP, Taylor is screwed!

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[–] MiddleToe 9 years ago

I look forward to anything Sebastian uncovers for the defense. He is now scouring deeper into the students'computer data. He may find video from that party that will horrify everyone, including Taylor.

Kevin did incite that attack, intentional or not. I found that very obvious the first viewing of that scene. The second time I watched it, after reading different opinions here, he seems down right manipulating.

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

When he found out about the beating he was very surprised that it occurred, so there is no manipulation in there. Manipulation would mean that it was intentional and we wer mad privy to his reaction to finding out it occurred. It still doesn't mean anything that Kevin's words inspired them, they are not his responsibility and I do not understand how people don't realize it so...

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[–] iginlafan65 9 years ago

When he found out about the beating he was very surprised that it occurred, so there is no manipulation in there. Manipulation would mean that it was intentional

Wrong!

"According to Kernberg, antisocial, borderline, and narcissistic personality disorders are all organized at a borderline level of personality organization,[6] and the three share some common characterological deficits and overlapping personality traits, with deceitfulness and exceptional manipulative abilities being the most common traits among the three. Sociopaths, borderlines, and narcissists are often both physically attractive (narcissists and borderlines in particular) and highly intelligent and can be efficient, persuasive, and incredible liars.[6] Other shared traits include pathological narcissism,[6] consistent irresponsibility, machiavellianism, lack of empathy,[7] cruelty, meanness, impulsivity, proneness to self-harm and addictions,[8] interpersonal exploitation, hostility, anger and rage, vanity, emotional instability, rejection sensitivity, perfectionism, and the use of primitive defence mechanisms that are pathological and narcissistic. Common narcissistic defences include splitting, denial, projection, projective identification, primitive idealization and devaluation, distortion (including exaggeration, minimization and lies)"

Sound familiar???? Sounds exactly like Kevin and his mother.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

Why do people keep talking about Sebastian finding a video? There was no evidence a video was made just like there is no evidence that any of the photographic evidence was a rape in progress. Kids do stupid things, which is one of the points the show is trying to make, if there was some video it would have most likely been posted with the pictures and like the pictures would have most likely only shown Taylor being a drunken mess. If Taylor was gang raped by boys that are homophobic, why would they make a video of it? Even the girl at school that admits to giving bjs to everybody doesn't want a video of it circulating just because she is honest about doing what she does, it makes zero sense that they would have made a video of them sexually assaulting Taylor. How is Sebastian going to uncover video that was not already posted online? Where is going to find it if it was never posted? I say this because we haven't heard about so it would appear no such video is in the space he can hack. The police and school never found out who posted them and that is about all he would be able to find, the original poster of the pictures.

You do know the definition of incite right? To incite is to encourage violent or unlawful behavior. Kevin would have had to specifically tell them to go and beat him up in order for him to incite anything, he did no such thing. Did his words put an idea into their heads? Yes. Can you prove beyond a shadow of doubt that he intended it to happen? No, especially when he says that was not his intent, so that means he incited nothing. He was venting and 4 d-bags took it to heart, if it was his intention and they honestly believed it, why did he not know about it until Eric told him? If they are doing things to please him, why hide it from him? You'd even have a leg to stand on if when he confronted Lesean, Lesean said we didn't tell you because we didn't want your name to be mixed up in it, but he didn't because they didn't do anything for Kevin, they did it because they are stupid, and apparently at least two of them didn't like gay boys

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Not only would a video or a photo of a rape be very implausible, it would flat out bad writing only used to make a quick conclusion. It would not be realistic is any sense, why would anyone tape such a thing as you say. My fear is though, they may have some left field surprise for us that will take any realism that is left after the sabastian guy came into the picture. I read that it will be found out that someone else I realeasing information about the school other than Sebastian, and I can only think maybe it's the cop that Michael is working with, but I don't see how releasing information about the school would help him.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

I don't either. I guess they are trying to prove the school covers up rape or something, but in this instance the school couldn't really do that because Anne went to the police and the press soon after talking to the school. At most they might find out who released the medical records, but that doesn't help Taylor's case it only gives Anne the right to sue and seek criminal charges against them. There is no way around him killing Wes and his lawyer said as much. They can only hope to lessen sentencing but Anne seems to be looking for some miracle that will exonerate him fully and get him released. He still stole a gun with intent to kill after he got it and killed a boy while on drugs he bought illegally.

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] iginlafan65 9 years ago

Not only would a video or a photo of a rape be very implausible, it would flat out bad writing only used to make a quick conclusion. It would not be realistic is any sense, why would anyone tape such a thing as you say.

Could you be any more out of touch with reality???? There have been several high profile cases of high school and college/university students video taping sexual assaults on drunk people and uploading them the the internet.

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Could you be any more out of touch with reality????

Could you be anymore of a delusional retard?

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

Not to mention those "high profile cases" usually don't involve homophobic men raping other men, and were more often than not idiots taking advantage of a girl because people seem to never think they are rapists unless they jump out of a dark alley and grab a person, but I'm out of touch with reality, coming from the person that tries to revise it and removes context in order to make a point.

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] iginlafan65 9 years ago

Not to mention those "high profile cases" usually don't involve homophobic men raping other men,

Wrong. There have been many high profile cases where male members of a school team or fraternity have raped other men. They call it hazing, look it up. There's actually a hazing case going on right now.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/03/05/high-school-students-charged-in-hazing-sexual-assault-with-broom-handle-on-no-gay-thursday/

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-echochambers-29716923

http://www.kcci.com/news/at-least-6-hazing-victims-reported-at-iowa-school/36080618

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

Oh God is it in your nature to post things that go directly against your own points? Where is the part that says they have video of these assaults?

There have been several high profile cases of high school and college/university students video taping sexual assaults on drunk people and uploading them the the internet.

You did say this right? I don't deny the fact there are male on male rape cases idiot, you are saying there are several high profile cases of them involving "video taping sexual assaults" and then you provide links to articles that mention no "video taping sexual assaults". You do understand that when I said this is

Not to mention those "high profile cases" usually don't involve homophobic men raping other men, and were more often than not idiots taking advantage of a girl because people seem to never think they are rapists unless they jump out of a dark alley and grab a person, but I'm out of touch with reality, coming from the person that tries to revise it and removes context in order to make a point.

It was in direct relation to this right?

There have been several high profile cases of high school and college/university students video taping sexual assaults on drunk people and uploading them the the internet.

Of course you did but being obtuse and using subterfuge is mainly how you do anything around here, stop being so dishonest.
Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] iginlafan65 9 years ago

you are saying there are several high profile cases of them involving "video taping sexual assaults"

You seriously need to pull your head out of your as $ and do your own research.

http://www.wctv.tv/news/headlines/TPD-Investigating-Possible-Rape-Video-360878351.html

http://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/charges-laid-in-sexual-assault-video-investigation-1.2463989

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

That was the idea -- to expose the school for what it really was, not to distort the information he found.

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[–] blindvias-071407 9 years ago

Taylor had departed the school without using the gun.
Wes confronted Taylor outside and threatened to kill him.
That list could be the people Taylor needed to confront, not a killing list.
A good lawyer could work all of that in his defense.

But yeah, this is Indiana. Might as well be in the deep south. Taylor is probably screwed.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

The defense lawyer they have can't so either she is not good, or she knows those things can't be proved and won't be believed. For his self defense thing to even begin to be viable he should have listen to Luke and at least gone to the hospital to have evidence he was beaten and by him being a minor they would have called CPS who would have reported it to the police. Instead of going to get medicine from a doctor for the pain, he called the school drug dealer and got high instead.

None of this would even matter because he has too many charges to walk, he killed somebody with a stolen gun that he brought on school grounds, while on illegal drugs, he is going to jail, the question is, for how long?
Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

You're right -- it's not a matter of if he will be convicted...he's definitely going to get convicted...everything's in the prosecution's favor. It's a matter of how long will his sentence be...That part remains to be seen.

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

and he skipped school to do it 

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Well, there's no cutting class when you get your GED in prison, so he can be sure that's the last time he'll get to do that.

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Taylor had departed the school without using the gun.
Wes confronted Taylor outside and threatened to kill him.
That list could be the people Taylor needed to confront, not a killing list.

I didn't think anyone would buy that he went there merely to confront the individuals. Why steal a gun? If he was just beaten up by several individuals on the list why would he want to confront them? And for all anyone knows he could have spotted Wes and that is why he was going outside.
Do you want him to get off from killing someone?

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[–] blindvias-071407 9 years ago

I'm only saying that he left the school without carrying out any mayhem, and only after Wes threatened to kill him did he shoot.

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[–] sluggr-2 9 years ago

A good lawyer could work all of that in his defense.

Might get him down to 25 years from 30.

I think my percentage of Chimp DNA is higher than others. Cleaver Greene

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[–] noother32 9 years ago

and that's only if the prosecutor wants to deal, at this point with what they have they don't need to make deals and can go for maximum sentencing.

Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Even if they can cut him a deal in which he'd only get 25 years, which would actually be great for him, try explaining to a seventeen-year-old that he's only going to have to do 25 years in prison...that's 150% of the time he's been alive!

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

Yeah, that pretty much means his life is ruined. He gets out at 42 and basically missed the most productive portion of life were he would go to college get married and have children.

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

Even if he gets out with a clean criminal record (since he committed his crime as a minor), there are still ways employers can find out about you. Even if he has some degree, completed while locked up and paid for by the state, unless you're a 42-year-old who looks 22 (unlikely), how do you explain to a potential employer all the blank space on your resume? -- "Uh...I was making...uh...license plates for a living...Yeah, that's the ticket! License plates!!"

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[–] nunyabiznesskay 9 years ago

Surely a school like Leyland has security cameras. Taylor was leaving out of the main entrance to the school, there has to be a camera that caught Wes grabbing him out of nowhere and admitting to something "You better not tell." Also Saying "I'm going to kill you, I'm going to kill you."

While Indiana may not like gays, surely they like guys, and wouldn't a verdict against Taylor for using the gun to defend himself be a blow to guns in general?

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[–] lrdcharlton 9 years ago

The gun was stolen and he was there to kill people, it doesn't really matter that Wes grabbed him, he shouldn't have been there to begin with.Whats the point really?

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[–] mpiccolo55000 9 years ago

While Indiana may not like gays, surely they like guys

So, are you implying that the entire State of Indiana is composed of closeted gays, and Indiana being homophobic is just an act to hide Indiana's own homosexuality? Now that would be a twist worthy of this show! Just kidding...

As for security cameras, they rarely have audio, so it would be up to witnesses, if there were any, to testify that they heard Wes threatening Taylor's life. Nobody's going to step forward to play devil's advocate...nope...not in a million years. As for the video, it seems to me that Wes would have had his back turned to the cameras, so you wouldn't be able to see him accosting Taylor.

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[–] wolfster2010 9 years ago

He's screwed by Eric's tinkle!!!

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