Everyone that needed to get punishished got punished but Taylor's ending up in the air like it was so sucked. We should have seen him get set free as a self-defense because that is what it was. But we are left hanging never to know if he accepted the plea deal or changed his mind. He was so self destructive to himself and self hatefull. It would have been great to see a transformation in Taylor.
shareI agree the ending was less than satisfying, but Taylor's murdering the student was absolutely not self defense. When he shot him with his concealed gun, his life was not imminently in danger and he was not being threatened.
shareI may need to watch that scene between Taylor and Wes again, because I could swear Wes had grabbed Taylor with both hands and said something like "Who were you here talking to? If you tell anyone what happened, *beep* I will kill you!"
Unless you really don't consider that a threat...
Not a threat that required lethal force as a response. If he showed Wes the gun Wes would have soiled his pants and run away.
shareConsidering Wes had just beaten Taylor up a day or two before, I can see why he would feel threatened. What it sounds like you're saying is "yes, Wes threatened to kill Taylor, but Taylor should have known Wes wasn't REALLY going to kill him."
I agree that if Wes had seen the gun first, he wouldn't have threatened Taylor like he did, but that also proves that Taylor didn't have the gun out OR shoot him until after Wes put his hands on Taylor.
I stand by shooting wasn't necessary and beyond the force needed to stop Wes. Are you saying Wes would have done it then and there at the school or not turned tail and ran like hell if Taylor simply showed him the gun?
shareI'm saying I don't think Wes would have killed Taylor, then or anywhere else perhaps, but I can see why Taylor might have thought Wes would, that's all.
shareI think this is where 'state of mind' comes in. When he took the gun from his grandmother's home, I think the intention was suicide. He has good reason to feel threatened in Wes' presence. He may have just put his hand on the gun in his pocket for courage and in the struggle it went off... At that age and in those circumstances, a lawyer could probably have made a case for self-defense, or at least involuntary.
shareI'm wondering if this fancy private school has camera's covering the school grounds. His lawyer could've looked at the footage to find evidence of Wes grabbing him in a threatening matter. I don't think Taylor went there to kill Wes or anyone else. I think he went there to scare the crap out of them and tell them to leave him alone. Either way, it still wouldn't be murder. More likely involuntary manslaughter.
shareWhat? of course he was going to shoot them, otherwise he wouldn't have written the list. He only reconsidered when the secretary spoke to him and he reconsidered. He certainly made it clear when he was speaking to his mother what his intentions were.
shareWes had already beat him up and then threatened him and pushed him. May not be a slam dunk, but it would be worth a shot. And even if he is convicted, he can hope for a more lenient sentence than the weak plea deal he was offered.
his life was not imminently in danger and he was not being threatened.
He was not in imminent danger of being killed by Wes, as Wes threatened him if he talked he'd kill him, imminent means about to happen. So you have proof that Wes was going to kill Taylor right then and there? Taylor in his frame of mind had no reason to not be afraid of Wes based on their past, but he can't prove that Wes was going to kill him right then and there because his threats were conditional. So there was no imminent danger regarding his life.
Nemo Unus Animabus Carnem!
He was not in imminent danger of being killed by Wes
So there was no imminent danger regarding his life.
You don't have to let someone kill you before you defend yourself. I just watched the scene again and Wes thought Taylor was at the school telling the administrators what Wes and his teammates had done, so he grabbed Taylor with both hands and shook him violently while screaming "if you told anyone what we did you f@ggot I'll kill you, you hear me! I'll kill you!" According to your theory, Taylor should have let Wes beat him up again instead of "over reacting" by shooting him. What do you think Taylor should have done at that moment? "Excuse me, Wes, you have no right to put your hands on me" in between being choked? Actually don't answer, I don't care what you think.
shareWhen someone has been traumatized and suffering PTSD from being raped and not being believed, then having the crap beat out of him and then one of the attackers grabbing him and threatening him he is not in his right mind anymore and could easily feel under immediate threat. I don't think Taylor even consciously pulled the trigger. It wasn't till he looked down that he even realized the gun had gone off. He was in a PTSD and drug-induced fugue state, i.e., not acting rationally.
shareDoes not matter. Also, allegedly raped, it was not proven so to use that as ptsd is not solid. Also, he voluntarily took the drugs and was planning on killing four individual's and went out of his way, no excuses.
shareI agree. I was waiting for Taylor to accept or reject the plea deal. But after thinking about the finally I think that Taylor didn't accept the deal and there was a trial considering that Eric was free to hook up with another stranger and his deal with the police was that if he testified for Taylor he'd wouldn't be arrested for the being apart of Taylor's beating. But we don't know the time line of those scenes so...
shareI was unsure whether Eric was 'hooking up' which would fit your scenario or considering just leaving town and trying to disappear.
share@pugpro: you completely missed the point of this show. It has exactly nothing to do with people being "punished". The whole point of "American Crime" is to take the viewers in a journey through their own prejudice and bias.
That's the point of leaving Taylor decision open to the viewer: it forces you to answer questions like "what should he do?", "what is right?" and so on - and, hopefully, through these answers you should be able to see where your prejudice and bias lead you.
It doesn't have to spoon-feed you the answers or to show "a transformation in Taylor" because that's not the damn point.
Dear IMDB: Please put a Thumbs-Up button on these posts! (not Facebook connected; your very own Plus/Minus thingies).
Would make it so much easier to comment w/o commenting!
@SickBoyGoreHound: THUMBS-UP!
@EstaQ: and now I wish IMDb had Thumbs Up/Thumbs Down thingies so I could up vote your comment about up voting :-) Oh, and thanks - thumbs-up!
shareYes! I'm glad others get the point of this show. Unfortunately far too many people need to be told what they should think and feel in their entertainment as well as in their lives.
What I like about the ending was that emphasized choice. The decisions that Taylor and Eric had to make would change their whole lives, seeing as it could have continued a destructive spiral for Eric. And it showed the parallels between the two boys. They're actually really similar people, if they'd had different circumstances they might have actually had a great relationship, even just as friends. But this is only after thinking about it, at first I was absolutely annoyed. I think they gave us enough to guess what the boys decided. I think Taylor took the plea deal and Eric didn't meet with whoever was in the car.
shareI feel like there was no point in this whole season. We never find out what really happened at the party, what happens to the hacker, Eric, Taylor, or anyone, or even what the conviction was even though I have a feeling that Taylor took the plea deal. What's the point of a show with no answers? Is this whole season just about performances? Emmy-buzz? That's what it seems like to me.
shareAs it was pointed out in comments before yours, you are not supposed to know. They give you all the information as if you were an outsider.....and you have to decide what you think all by yourself.
shareYeah I guess that is deliberate. We never find out what really happened with the murder in season 1 either. But it's pretty clear that Taylor was honest about being raped and feeling like a victim because it's the reason he takes the plea deal. And Eric never thought what he did was rape, but a lot of rapists think that. Counseling for them both to deal with what's happened would have been better for both of them.
I think it's unlikely he Taylor changed his mind last minute after already having said yes. He took the deal.
Either choice was going to punish him. He had to take the plea lest he forever be thought of as the liar he actually was. To full out believe Taylor would be to ignore his actions that that didn't reconcile with a person who was raped. Perhaps HE believes incorrectly or made himself believe he was raped.
shareI can't really make a full assessment, as I missed episode 9, so I am not sure if episode 10 missed points. I think they were going for the abrupt ending and leaving us in the air about what happens to the two main boys: is one going to accept the plea deal, is the other going to get into the car for another anonymous (and potentially dangerous) hook-up? Unless more info was revealed in episode 9 (which I missed), we also never get a clue as to what actually occurred at the party. Taylor claims he was held down and sexually assaulted; the alleged perp denies that it was non-consensual. Was no light ever shed on that? Or is that part of the realism of the show: in real life, we are so often left with too little info to determine what really happened.
I would have to say, though, that episode 8, with the real life testimonials interspersed was a truly excellent program, one of the best I've seen in a long time.
I think it's clear that Taylor was very serious that it was rape and was traumatized by it. And Eric simply didn't think it was rape, but so do lots of rapists. Maybe he simply didn't know any better.
shareThe finale was right on target.
The only thing that sucks is that was the last episode. I miss my Wednesday evening must see TV show.
I think it was meant to send a message ... I took it as life is based on the decisions you make he could take the plea and refuse to leave his fate in the hands of others and take the 10 year or he could let others help him and get a lighter sentence. The same for Eric he could choose to help Taylor by testifying that the boys beat him up or he could lie he could get in that car and continue down the dangerous track he was on or he could choose to change his path... The whole season was based on peoples choices and doing what's best for you or putting yourself out there to help others.
I'm not crazy M'Lynn, I've just been in a very bad mood for forty years.