MovieChat Forums > Forever (2014) Discussion > In what way was Adam so evil??

In what way was Adam so evil??


What Henry did to Adam was far worse than just killing him. He basically condemned the man to being a vegetable for eternity… And I wouldn't mind if Adam was really that evil, but, what was that made him deserve what happened to him?
He didn't kill Henry's wife and even tried to save her, for his own selfish means, but still… And yes, if he didn't show up, she would still be alive but, during the series, Henry proved to be a rather peaceful and forgiving character. Paralyzing a man for something that "small" would be wrong even for a villain.
So I tried to remember what Adam did during the series, and as I remember (and may be forgetting stuff), he showed up, killed himself to prove he was immortal and saved Henry's secret by slicing his throat. He tortured a guy that was already tortured… I mean, that's not ordinary man stuff, I agree, but does it amount to the sheer evilness of what he got in return? Especially since he seemed like a good guy at the beginning of his immortality.
By all means, if anyone has something I forgot, enlighten me :)

And I'm not complaining because I hate violence, violent movies are the best, but here it seemed displaced and kind of excessive...

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He murdered a taxi driver for starters, and manipulated Henry into killing a mental patient. It's not so much that he's bad but that, by his own admission, life has ceased to have any meaning to him. The only person who is safe is Abe. He killed the museum worker who found the dagger. He tortured and killed the man he thought had it. He threatened to kill the young woman who was with Abigail in the flashback.

What Henry did is horrible, I agree. Adam has locked-in syndrome. He's no vegetable; he's perfectly aware, but just can't move. But the point is, what choice did Henry have? He's an enemy who by definition can't be killed. Sure, he could be arrested, but he could just commit suicide to escape. There was nothing that Henry could do.



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I find concussion quite invigorating.

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Basically, human life has ceased to have any value to Adam. He is willing to not just kill but torture completely innocent people - and he can't be killed and can kill himself to escape any imprisonment, so how else could he be stopped?

And in any case, it's not "all eternity." Aside from the fact that the paralysis itself may not be permanent, the hospital isn't
"eternal." It could burn down, or he could be transferred and die in a car crash. Lots of possibilities. Or Henry can find the answer to their immortality.

Henry is not the villain here.

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He killed an entire subway car worth of people to prove Henry was immortal? He was a mass murderer?

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Yes! And all of those deaths created years of pain for their own loved ones, hundreds of people hurt beyond the actual deaths (one of which we knew was a lovely young musician), all treated by Adam as ants to be stomped on at his pleasure - or worse, utter indifference.

The causes of Adam's pathology may be tragic (his own horrible torture) but by this point Henry WAS dealing with someone inhuman - someone who had lost all humanity and was capable of anything. Adam's "intentions" toward Abigail were beside the point as he was willing to terrify and slaughter anyone who stood between him and his designs.

Paralysis was perfect justice for a monster who lived by his "will" to do what HE wanted to anyone.

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Adam didn't kill the motorman on that train. It was the guy getting revenge for his dead wife. He died at the end of the premiere.

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You are right, I was wrong. For some reason since that was Henry's "outing" I had gotten it into my head after the fact that Adam engineered it. My bad.

He's still a murderer of many people but not the subway car deaths.

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Not in the first episode, but I thought in a later episode it was revealed that Adam had manipulated the engineer in some way.

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I could be wrong as it has been a while since I saw that episode, but I am pretty confident it was Adam to killed the engineer. When they tracked the poison back to the guys garage they discovered he had a massive stockpile of the stuff which didn't make sense for him to have if he was the one who killed the engineer. I think it was said, or at least implied, that Adam stole some of the guys poison to frame him.

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No, the engineer grew the poison. Henry was wrongfooted by that because he had convinced himself that Adam was responsible, but he wasn't.



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I find concussion quite invigorating.

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Here's what I remember but I cannot find any backup. Henry figures out that due to the amount of time the poison takes effect, whoever GAVE it to the conducter had to actually BE ON the train, because it took effect too fast. Which means it had to be ADAM that gave it to the conductor. Not the grower. The grower had another attack planned.

This was all Adam to out Henry. But again, I cannot find any transcripts or anything to back this up and I don't have the pilot saved to watch.

Editing to add: I just watched some commentary where they say that the poison was injected, and due to the amount of time, the person who injected it had to be on the train. So it WAS Adam. There's no way that it wasn't Adam.

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Oops! Good catch, well done. Clearly I must rewatch the pilot!



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I find concussion quite invigorating.

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LOL.. no problem, I have a shitte memory but I was so convinced that Adam had done it! It was driving me crazy not to be able to find evidence. I hate when memory plays tricks on you.

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If it was Adam, the chemist's fingerprint wouldn't have been on the motorman's neck, which is how they found the culprit. You can't get to the motorman from inside the train anyway. There's a locked, solid steel door. However, motormen (train operators are not conductors, one of the numerous errors in the show) do stick their heads out of the side window at the platform, at which point, you can grab him and make the injection.

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He could have planted the fingerprint on the conductor's neck. We are meant to believe that's what happened.

And also, the train was moving. Considering the speed which the poison took effect on Henry, there was no stop close enough for it to have happened while the train was stopped. And I hardly think the conductor would have stuck his head out the window and then just stood there while some man grabbed his head, pulled it down and injected it into the BACK of his neck. And then he'd hardly start the train up again and get it moving after that had happened! Hey some crazy guy just assaulted me and injected me with something, let me just ignore it and fire this baby up and go off!

Right.


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Why would he plant a fingerprint? He would have no interest in getting the guy captured. Again, how would Adam get past the locked steel door into the cab of a moving train to attack a motorman? Also, if you've ever actually been on a NYC subway train, that door is easily visible from anywhere in the car. Every passenger in the car would have seen Adam entering and been suspicious.

Look, the murder scheme is full of holes, but let's not go making up ridiculous things like "the fingerprint was planted."

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How would the regular guy have gotten through the locked steel doors? I agree with not making up ridiculous things but your idea that the guy assaulted the conductor while the train was stopped, jabbed a NEEDLE in his neck while the train was stopped and the guy just shrugged it off and started driving the train is more ridiculous than the idea that Adam planted a fingerprint.

Every passenger who might have saw Adam entering was dead, so what they saw is irrelevant and I think you highly overestimate how much people pay attention to the comings and goings of people on the subway. HE's had 2000 years to learn skills, I imagine he's learned how to pick a lock, breech a door and how to dress in a uniform suitable to a subway driver.

And Adam had every reason to throw suspicion on someone else for the murder... he can still be captured and imprisoned and that wasn't something he was interested in, I imagine.

Not to mention, the detectives looked at all the surveillance video of the train on the platform (that's how they knew Henry was on it, remember) and I think they would have caught a man jabbing a needle into the conductor's neck.

Let's get real here. Do you ACTUALLY think it's plausible that the driver would be attacked by someone, have a needle jabbed in his neck and injected with something, and just shrug it off and move on to the next station??

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I never wrote the chemist got through the door. What the heck are you going off about? Have you any idea how the master controller in a motorman's cab works, or how the dead man switch gets disabled?

Look, show me one line after they confronted the chemist and he escaped, just one line that even implies Adam killed the motorman. Adam was a red herring in that episode. Henry believed his mysterious stalker was the killer then realized he was wrong after they found the chemist. There was no second twist back that said he was actually right. There was no connection between Adam and the chemist. Adam didn't buy or steal poison from him. If it was Adam and he didn't have to worry about dying or being caught, there are plenty of easier ways to kill the motorman than an esoteric poison. If he can open the door, he can stab the guy or slit his throat. Heck, Henry himself was sitting no more than ten feet from the cab door while he chatted up the cellist and you somehow think the Man Who Notices Everything would miss the attack?

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Adam didn't buy or steal poison from him.


You don't know that.


If it was Adam and he didn't have to worry about dying or being caught, there are plenty of easier ways to kill the motorman than an esoteric poison. If he can open the door, he can stab the guy or slit his throat.


And the point of doing it with the poison, as I already said, would be to frame the guy who was already going to attack the train. They said the chemist had a different plan, to release the poison by aerosol which is a much different and safer and DISTANT method of delivery, risk wise, than stabbing a guy in the neck with a needle.



Heck, Henry himself was sitting no more than ten feet from the cab door while he chatted up the cellist and you somehow think the Man Who Notices Everything would miss the attack?


You think that the police would miss a guy stabbing the driver in the neck on the platform?

You think the driver would just blithely drive off after having just been attacked while the train was parked?

The fact is, Henry had to have missed the attack, whoever committed it, because your theory that the train was parked and the chemist stabbed the driver in the neck and the driver just shrugged it off and moved on is absolutely stupid. Henry notices what he is paying attention to at that moment. At that moment, he was paying attention to the cute girl, not every passenger on the train.

Whoever killed the driver, he was stabbed in the neck in the cab, while the train was moving.

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You don't know that.

And you don't know that he did. You've just made that up out of whole cloth because it fits your belief.

They said the chemist had a different plan, to release the poison by aerosol which is a much different and safer and DISTANT method of delivery, risk wise, than stabbing a guy in the neck with a needle.

They said no such thing. Henry said he wanted a bigger audience. One wrecked train wasn't enough for him. He wanted to keep going, to make sure they would remember his wife. Somehow, you jump to the conclusion that Adam would be able to find a man who's been plotting revenge for his dead wife then frame him using his poison on the exact motorman he blames, using a planted fingerprint that he's sure somebody will find, at the exact time that Henry is riding the train, and with the knowledge that Henry would definitely be killed in the crash. That many coincidences stretches credulity to the breaking point.

You think that the police would miss a guy stabbing the driver in the neck on the platform?

Did you see them looking at any footage of the outside of the control cab? Although in the real world, the MTA doesn't have nearly as many cameras as the show makes it look like. Coverage is very, very sparse, with a great many cameras inoperative at any given time, and the video quality is pretty bad, as anyone who's seen a news story about them looking for someone who committed a crime in the system can attest. Sometimes, you're lucky if you can make out much of any recognizable facial features at all in the murky, blurry images.

You think the driver would just blithely drive off after having just been attacked while the train was parked?

Again, you have no idea how the master controller works. You act like a subway car goes to full speed instantly, rather than gradually coming up to speed. The chemist would have at least ten seconds after the train starts to make his attack before he ran out of platform, plenty of time to grab the motorman and make the injection. Since the controller isn't spring-loaded, it won't automatically stop the train.

The fact is, Henry had to have missed the attack, whoever committed it, because your theory that the train was parked and the chemist stabbed the driver in the neck and the driver just shrugged it off and moved on is absolutely stupid. Henry notices what he is paying attention to at that moment. At that moment, he was paying attention to the cute girl, not every passenger on the train.

Whoever killed the driver, he was stabbed in the neck in the cab, while the train was moving.

Henry had to have missed the attack? You obviously have never been on a subway train even once in your life. The cab door opens outward and doesn't block the view of passengers. Henry sat about ten feet away with a clear, unobstructed line of sight, looking in the exact direction of the cab door, in fact, since the cellist was sitting toward the front of the train. All he had to do was look just past her face and your supposed attacker would have been a few feet past her. There's not enough room inside the cab for a second person, so your supposed attacker would have to stand outside in clear view while he attacked. Henry would have to be completely blind not to see the door open wide and an attacker grabbing the motorman by the neck. Not even the prettiest girl in the world could make Henry that oblivious.

I'm done with this. You know nothing about what you're talking about. I've ridden the NYC subway probably longer than you've been alive and you're making things up left and right. You're just going to believe whatever you want to believe. Henry himself could tell you you're wrong and you'd still argue. There's grasping at straws, but you really take the cake.

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And you don't know that he did. You've just made that up out of whole cloth because it fits your belief.


No actually, I never made a statement of fact on how Adam obtained the poison. You did because it fits YOUR belief.


Again, you have no idea how the master controller works. You act like a subway car goes to full speed instantly, rather than gradually coming up to speed.
The chemist would have at least ten seconds after the train starts to make his attack before he ran out of platform, plenty of time to grab the motorman and make the injection. Since the controller isn't spring-loaded, it won't automatically stop the train.


LOL... so now you actually have the chemist running along the platform, grabbing the driver, while the driver's head is out the window, wrestling his neck down to inject the drug, and getting a clean one shot in and out, all while the train is already moving? Your scenarios get more ridiculous as they go along.


Did you see them looking at any footage of the outside of the control cab?


No I'm sure they looked at every footage available except you know, footage near where the actual crime scene would occur. *rolls eyes*



Although in the real world, the MTA doesn't have nearly as many cameras as the show makes it look like.


And in the real world, detectives don't get fingerprint and DNA matches in 24 hours, work with coroners as crime solvers or you know... have men who come back to life. We have to suspend disbelief in order for there to be a tv show.


There's not enough room inside the cab for a second person, so your supposed attacker would have to stand outside in clear view while he attacked.


Oh *beep* 2 people can fit in a airplane toilet and that's a third the size of a cab.




I'm done with this. You know nothing about what you're talking about. I've ridden the NYC subway probably longer than you've been alive and you're making things up left and right.


LOL.. nimrod, see above about fingerprint matches and DNA. What you've "ridden" in real life (like a whole lot of the bad drugs??) is irrelevant to a TV SHOW.

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No.. It was the husband seeking revenge.. How else could Henry have gotten the fingerprint he gave Jo..

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I really liked Adam. He was the exact definition of a immortal character, to the extent of being also immoral due to the nonexistent feelings. He was 2000 years old, 10 times of Henry's age. Henry could be considered a child compared to his life and life-time experiences as an immortal. Whether he accepts it or not, the fact remains that one day Henry would probably end up like Adam too in the distant future, lifeless, soulless, emotionless, a cynical/nihilistic man. Adam was the product of a lifetime of deaths, pain, torture, despair, loneliness. As he said in the last confrontation, he was essentially a good decent man, in the beginning, just like Henry. Than he slowly but surely changed, with every year, every step. He was not a saint, but also not a evil villian or anything. After the tortorous 2000 years, he was just trying to find a way to end his suffering, by any means even by killing someone who got in the way. That's quite understandable, and no one can think like the way he did without actually living 2000 years. So... No he was not evil.

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I really thought the same thing. I guess I am going to have to re-watch the whole series again. I am going off only the descriptions on the internet which don't lay the blame on Adam. Guess I will have to rewatch and see because I really, REALLY thought Adam had been exposed after the fact as being the killer of the engineer.

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Actually, that was done by a man wanting revenge for the death of his wife..

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While adam did live a long time and has become indifferent towards the value of each life, I honestly didnt find him truly evil. He lived a lot longer than henry and was wanted to find a way out and has finally found someone who has the same gift/curse as him. I think it was more the writers fault the way the made the character of adam darker while henry was some super moralistic good guy.

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How is it the writers' "fault" that the characters have taken the path they have - as if they existed independently of the show? You may wish that they had been written differently, but I'm not sure what you mean by "moralistic" as opposed to moral. It is the fact that Henry IS a moral, thoughtful and compassionate person that makes so many love his character.

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I dont know(probably wont/cant) for sure if i lived for 2000 years if i'd become a killer and asshat like Adam, but i am FAIRLY CERTAIN because of my immortality if i had it, i would hold regular human-life in high regard, knowing that i could live sthrough something they wouldnt

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Well, I was surely hoping for a next season in which Henry would come often to visit Adam and read to him books or articles, or even thinking out lout in his room. And I was hoping a new villain would show himself/herself, and that Henry would need Adam's help and knowledge, and maybe find a common ground. Unfortunately, the "suits" took that chance away. I think that Henry was more afraid of what Adam might be capable of doing, and this is why he chose this. Besides, Adam has managed to build a mysterious background, and he revealed only bits and pieces from it. Not to mention that he seems rather unstable. If you think about it, this isn't that bad, because Henry has the capability of setting Adam free anytime. I would've hoped that he finally would focus on studying his odd fate, because throughout the whole 1st season, I got the feeling that he was more focused on covering his tracks, despite what the plot said.

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He basically condemned the man to being a vegetable for eternity…
Never say never.

Adam will be just another vegetable -- for a couple of decades. But, if the record-keeping isn't completely crappy, eventually he will become the vegetable who doesn't grow old -- how long before he goes from curiousity to subject of medical experiments? So, doctors study him, take samples, and, eventually he dies.

Assuming he even gets to the famous phenomenon stage. He could get bed sores, die of bed sores, or other elements of poor care. There could be a fire, or a terrorist bombing.

If doctors in 2050 study him, maybe they find out why he lives forever, and he is cured.

Alternately, maybe we go the route Larry Niven wrote about in some of his novels -- the hunger for transplant organs gets so high that vegetables get turned into organ donors, as their final contribution to society.

If his vegetable body dies, after fifty years of locked in, I imagine he would have even more of a grudge against Henry. I wonder if he could hang on to his remaining sanity during decades of locked in?

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Honestly since Henry is in charge of his care, my expectation would be that Henry would move Adam when Henry himself has to move on. He can't stay as medical examiner forever without Henry also being exposed as never aging, so I rather imagined that when Henry moves on every 10-15 years, he would cite "moving" and have Adam transferred to a new facility as well. Since Henry is a medical doctor as well, he can adjust the age of birth or what have you on the transfer papers.

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uh he was a murderer! thats what makes him evil. he killed many innocent people through out the show and he was sure to kill more. also, who knows how many other people he had hurt in the 2000 years before henry! what henry did was the only way he could be stopped. I dont see anything excessive about this at all.

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Adam was a serial killer, he had lived so long he no longer valued other peoples lives and happily murdered who knows how many.

Plus its not like he just started, he's been this way for a long time (don't forget he implied he was jack the ripper back in the 1800's).

Not to mention his medieval torture methods.

Adam was a danger to everyone who got in his way, he couldn't be stopped and he was never going to leave Henry alone.

Really what choice did he have? How else do you stop a guy whose immune to the grim reaper?

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This is slightly off topic, but is Adam Julius Ceasar?

The actor playing him looks "Ceasar like."

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No, he's not. We know he died saving a life. We know that Caesar didn't. We also know that Caesar's body was put on display after his death, which is impossible for an immortal in this universe.



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I find concussion quite invigorating.

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No, no he's not.

Adam's to young, Ceasar was in his fifties when he died, and was seriously thinning, Adam had a full head of brown hair. Likewise afterward his body was put on display to show he was dead.

According to Adam, he died the first time trying to save a life, suggesting he was stabbed trying to stop them killing Ceasar.

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Thank you for the information. Interesting. I guess we'll never find out
Adams's complete story since "Forever" has been cancelled.

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I don't think that we were suppose to view Adam as some 'stache-twirling generic "bad guy".

He did some very bad things, but he generally had a reason for doing them.


Additionally, towards the end of the series we were shown some of the things that Adam endured that made him into who he was.

I don't think that anyone can make the case that he's a "good guy", but, he's a far cry from a pure evil villian.


That's usually the mark of a good show though. The characters have layers, they aren't bad/good, they act like people.

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