MovieChat Forums > Extinction (2015) Discussion > Lousy Science, Again

Lousy Science, Again

posted 10 years ago by douglasjeffreys-688-703001
54 replies | jump to latest

Umm, zombies don't adapt or evolve. They simply decompose or, if the ambient temperature is cold enough, they freeze solid. Remember, no functioning circulatory system means cold-blooded. They become dormant, non-functioning, like reptiles. Yet, once again, the knuckleheads that pass for writers in Hollywood continue to ignore the most basic laws of nature. There are many clever ways to make a "zombie" without relying on supernatural walking-dead types. For instance, there are actually parasites in existence that can take control of the host's brain and make it act in all manner of contrary ways, including cannibalism and even feeling no pain. there are, of course, all types of possible natural mutations of existing afflictions or man-made afflictions such as spongiform encephalopathy or Creutzfeld-Jacob disease caused by a prion, etc. Of course, all these afflicted would still be alive and subject to the same laws of mortality that we all experience. They could die from harsh elements, starvation, severe injuries, etc. At least try to adhere to the laws of science. It can be done.

[–] jman0 10 years ago

Really? You're applying science and physics to something that doesn't really exist? Did you ever hear the term "fiction"? Well, maybe you should write your own scientifically accurate zombie novel/movie and teach us.

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

Actually, I did write one. But there are others that have done it better. Jonathan Maberry would be one. And obviously one needs to suspend belief a bit to even imagine a world with zombies, but that doesn't mean you just throw out the most basic laws of science and physiology. As I said in the above post, it can be done. It has been done. I expect better.

[–] SheWorksHardForTheMoney 10 years ago

Can I read your work?

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

Absolutely, if you have a Kindle, Nook, etc., as it is only in ebook form. Also, they are not really "zombies" in my tale. They are more like the creatures in "28 Days Later", as I felt that "George Romero" type zombies where just too easy. If you're still interested,here's the link. http://www.amazon.com/The-Darkest-Hour-ebook/dp/B007KF072E/ref=sr_1_8?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1331846196&sr=1-8

[–] SheWorksHardForTheMoney 10 years ago

Thanks.

[–] zilla7777 10 years ago

I just bought your ebook. So far, it's pretty darned good (just a few pages in)! Thanks. It's great to see more QUALITY zombie fiction!

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

I appreciate the kind words and hope you like it as much at the last page as well.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

so are they zombies or they are not zombies? make up your mind.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

"most basic laws of science and physiology" - meaning zombies?

[–] jas-wats 9 years ago

jman0: Really? You can't possibly wrap your brain around his point? Is it so unbelievable that a scientifically incorrect scene, simply because the producer didn't know any better, can hurt a movie's enjoyment? Are you really incapable of considering that concept? Really?

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] JJett131313 10 years ago

zombies can do whatever the writer of the movie/show/project wants them to do. it's hilarious that you are stating AS FACT that something completely fictional (zombies, which aren't real and have no FOR A FACT rules) can ONLY be portrayed one way. personally i love that this movie seems to be attempting something new-ish regrading the "adapting/evolving" riff.

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

JJett131313, you are absolutely right. I am simply lamenting the fact that most writers don't even try to reconcile their plot with even the most fundamental laws of science. As I've stated earlier, it can be done and when it is done, the entire plot becomes just a bit more believable, therefore enhancing the enjoyment of the viewer. I can only suspend my belief just so much. If the show can't answer some simple questions, it will not catch my interest. Clearly, there are many thousands of viewers that don't care about the lack of science and I'm sure they will enjoy this show. Good for them, bad for me. That's all I'm saying.

[–] Open-Valve 10 years ago

I agree and disagree with the OP. I agree that a story can potentially be made more enjoyable by making it a bit more believable. But, at the same time, it is fiction after all and zombies are highly fictional to begin with so it shouldn't matter that they aren't abiding by fundamentals of science.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

Laws of science regarding zombies... Sorry but i never saw a thread like this one before. If you knew something about our bodies or science you wouldnt say that.

I could say say that people came back to life because Sun send too much neutrinos. You are ridiculous.

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 9 years ago

Come back when you learn how to speak english, Paul.

[–] JohnnyDoe67 10 years ago

Science fiction!

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

SCIENCE fiction!

[–] JohnnyDoe67 10 years ago

There is science, and there's science fiction.

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

*sigh* You, like most of the screenwriters in Hollywood, seem content to ignore the word "science" in the genre-defining title "Science Fiction". However, if one is going to engage the attention & interest of an audience with at least a high school education (and this crowd seems to be waning fast), in a film set in a supposedly 'real world', one should stick as close to 'real' science as possible. Otherwise, you are writing fantasy, which is all well and good, but don't market it as science fiction as most 'zombie' genre writers seem to do. If you want to write about zombies in a strictly fantasy/supernatural setting, stick to voodoo zombies. Again, watch what you like and like what you watch but don't call it science fiction when there is no science involved.

[–] blazingmaddogs 10 years ago

The movie is Science Fiction just as the Night of the Living Dead was, you can also call it a horror movie if you would like. In movies, zombies have evolved. Look at the progression of Night of the Living Dead, Dawn of the Dead, Day of the Dead and Land of the Dead. Each new movie had the zombies changing or evolving. So Mr. douglasjeffreys-688-703001, this movie may not be Science Fiction to you in your definition of the term but it is in mine. If the master of the Zombie world (George Romero) can have zombies evolve then it is good enough for me as well. I too have issues with certain zombie movies like the new Dawn of the Dead with fast zombies. (Loved the movie though) 28 Days later were not zombies and should have never been called that because they were infected with a virus not dead. I guess what does a person define as a zombie? Voodoo makes you act like one though your not dead.

[–] douglasjeffreys-688-703001 10 years ago

Again, I really can't argue with what you say. The zombie movie, if I may paraphrase, is very much in the eye of the beholder. I catagorize them primarily as horror, but having read a number of novels and short stories where the authors clearly did an incredible amount of research into the science behind a 'zombie apocalypse', well, it's kind of ruined it for me when it comes to most T.V. and films as they clearly play fast & loose with science. Also, even though I have issues with them I too love all the zombie movies. Even though I find science severely lacking in George "The Zombie Godfather" Romero's films, I have to applaud his genius in not even trying to come up with a scientific or even super-natural explanation. He simply hints that maybe, just possibly there is a connection between a recently returned sattelite and the outbreak and leaves it up to the viewer to make their own conclusion. Also, I've seen 'voodoo' style movies that use potions and magic to make either living people become zombie slaves or actually reanimate recently deceased corpses. Yes the creatures in "28 Days Later" & "28 Weeks Later" were living, virus-infected and therefore, to my mind anyway, more challenging. That is why I used "infected" instead of 'undead' in my book (yes, I researched it), but better authors than me have done better research. Sorry if I got long winded but I wanted to touch on all the points you brought up. Again, I didn't really want to step on any ones toes, just expressing my opinion.

[–] blazingmaddogs 10 years ago

Good Reply douglasjeffreys-688-703001! It's refreshing to have someone on IMDb give an honest level headed explanation on their view point. I've learned a long time ago to suspend reality when it comes to science fiction/horror because your right that a lot of time real science would pretty well prove that some of the things going on could never really happen. I wish you all the best with your book!

[–] steve_1185 9 years ago

Science is severely lacking in Romero's films because the viewer is supposed to be as confused as the characters in the film as to what is going on. Right up to the very end of Night of the Living Dead we, and the characters, don't know what caused the outbreak, if it's over, or how widespread it is. Explaining how the zombies exist would bring the storyline out of whack. The same would be true for Dawn of the Dead or even Walking Dead.

I might be getting off topic as you were explaining how science is needed in Extinction and I just logged in here to see if it was worth renting. I do get your point as sometimes in a science fiction movie I say "huh"? And sometimes wish there was a simple bridge to make something plausible but, sometimes the point is to keep the viewer in the dark with the characters.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

Virus- check out on wiki what a virus is.
Infected- lol. check out on wiki what that means.

You are simply funny. Do you know why people doing this dont get much *beep* like that? Because they know its fiction. THERE IS NOTHING SCIENTIFIC BEHIND ZOMBIES. If you do not understand that, then you are simply slow. There was some science in 2001 or Interstellar. Not in zombie movies. That does not make any sense. Science. SCIENCE tells us that. What im getting at is that your thread, your first post- it does not make any sense. you should delete it.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

This is not Sci-fi. Its not. IMDB may have it under that but its not sci-fi.

[–] johnthedoe 9 years ago

Read the definition of this genre.

[–] markhh2424-1 10 years ago

It's a horror movie....Plain and SIMPLE FACT !!!! deal with it !!!! end of discussion

[–] LV426 9 years ago

I assumed they were more like the Ragers from the 28 Days/Weeks Later movies. They turned within minutes and were super fast. Maybe they weren't traditional zombies?

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] aereaus 9 years ago

Also I'm wondering if in desperation there wasn't a limited nuclear war which brought on a nuclear winter and may have hasten the de-evolutionary process.

[–] DarthTigris 9 years ago

I watched it so I'm good, but you do realize that you just seriously spoiled a huge moment in Wayward Pines in a thread for something completely unrelated, right?

[–] aereaus 9 years ago

Wayward Pines is over. Unless you're downloading it.

[–] effingwewt 9 years ago

Who the *beep* cares? Or, perhaps they saved it to watch later with DVR, some people save whole seasons to binge watch and not have to wait a week per episode, as it's an antiquated and psychologically manipulative tactic.

[–] tim-dalinian-jones 9 years ago

Hey Douglas - you have my utmost sympathy, oh my brother. I'm a life-long science aficionado, skeptic and atheist, and also an avid consumer of sci-fi and fantasy fiction. I've had several similar experiences on IMDb boards to the one represented in this thread - expressing disatisfacfion with science-ignorant plotting, then discovering few if any allies, and plenty of opposing ''Hey, it's like FICTION, man!" type comments.

One of the ironies is that while science and technology fully underpin modern civilisation, science education and respect for scientific knowledge is unfortunately and woefully poor - and especially so in the USA. Since this means that the creators of mass consumption TV and movie sci-fi are writing for a predominantly science-ignorant audience, how closely their plotting is attuned to known scientific principles is really only a matter of their own creative integrity - or, nobody ever got fired for turning in a science-implausible film or TV series.

So the majority of TV and movie sci-fi could be classified as 'soft sci-fi', in which science-ignorant plotting sorely tests the willing suspension of disbelief for science-savvy viewers - but which really does not trouble the great majority of its predominantly science-ignorant audience, because ''Hey, it's like FICTION, man!" Conversely, only the minority of TV and movie sci-fi could be classified as 'hard sci-fi', in which the creators strive for as science-plausible plotting as possible - and which, for science-savvy sci-fi aficionados, shine out like beacons.

Sad to say, but society gets the quality of sci-fi it deserves - and I don't hold out much hope that the the high soft to hard sci-fi ratio will shift in favour of more hard sci-fi anytime soon.

[–] johnmc963 9 years ago

Not lousy science.

I have read hundreds of zombie books and seen hundreds of movies. Zombies in most have slowed down in winter but never froze. When spring has sprung, so has the zombies. calling most science ignorant is elitism at best. since no zombies exist (yet) , you can not say its right or wrong science. Its possible either way. But I guess the term science "fiction" does say alot.

[–] carmstrong2183 9 years ago

But I am guessing if you log onto the Hackers IMDB you will find no shortage of people lamenting the lack of the honest portrayal of computer virus hacking and defending. Ill agree with the OP here, the science is completely BS and its better when they keep to atleast a plausible scenario, but were talking about a B-rated movie here with little to no budget, and at the end of the day their argument has some merit which is why the dickheads cling to it so cheerily

[–] tim-dalinian-jones 9 years ago

TBH and IMHO, the majority of films and TV series in the Zombie Apocalyse genre barely scrape into the category of Science Fiction (if at all) - at heart, they're Horror Fantasy, which I agree kinda makes quibbling about the zombification mechanics moot.

However, 'Extinction' is tagged as 'Sci-Fi' at IMDb, and its title does at least make explicit what underpins the whole ZA genre: the mostly unstated or denied social awareness that the ecocidal crimes perpetrated by humankind against our home world's ecosphere, resulting in earth's on-going sixth mass extinction event, will catch up with us in the end. The zombie mechanism is merely a fantasy metaphor for the coming extinction crisis humanity will face when the uncomprehended complexities of our biodiversity destruction engulf our species too.

"Avoiding Climate Truth
The fact that climate change threatens the collapse of civilization is not only known to scientists and experts. It is widely known—and defended against. Witness the popularity of learning survival skills and packing “go bags”—people harbor the fantasy that in a collapse scenario, they would be able to successfully take their safety into their own hands. Or look at the profusion of apocalyptic movies, TV shows and video games that have been popular in recent years."
~ Margaret Klein Salamon, PhD, in 'Transformative Power of Climate Truth'', at The Climate Mobilization
» http://www.theclimatemobilization.org/transformative

Here's hoping enough of us are moved to transformative action to bring our sixth extinction event to a halt, beginning with tackling anthropogenic climate change. But I'm afraid that our species-egocentric myth of human exceptionalism will continue to blind most of us until it's too late to avoid the disasterous consequences of despoiling our global habitat.

[–] bigjohnnyhandsome 9 years ago

Zombies do adapt and evolve. Surely it's a proven fact?